Line Twist Puzzle

It is with some shame that I have to even post this but I hope it generates a fair amount of conversation...

I am having non-stop line twist issues with all my jig and Texas rig setups...here is the situation... I can spool brand new Fluorocarbon (usually 17 or 20lb) onto my reels (have done this with 3 different Revo Premieres on 3 different rods and 2 Revo Rockets on 2 other rods) and within about 10 pitches of the jig I have permanent twist burned into my line. We are not talking some minor twist but literally looks like it has been crimped in every which direction. I know how to spool line and it is perfect when it goes on but somehow I am getting all this twist in my line very quickly. I've tested several different jigs in clear water situations and they aren't rolling or spinning on me. On certain casts I pull the jig out of the water and it spins like a top because there is so much twist in the line. It is not the jig because this is happening with a texas rig setup too.

Again, I have used P-Line, Seaguar, BPS brand, Gamma and have the same exact issue with all of them. All of my reels are either Revo Premiers or Revo Rockets and have fished them on 7'6 Heavy, 7'4 Medium Heavy, and 7'3 Heavy. The rods do have micro guides on them but I don't that plays into the equation. Purely for information purposes - all these rods are Kistler Helium 3s, which I absolutely love. I am fairly certain it is not a function of what line or rod I'm using.

This issue truly has me stumped. My tournament partner and several of my well seasoned fishing buddies are also stumped on the issue. I am not a rookie at this, though it may sound like it with this issue! Has anybody else experienced this kind of issue?

Bring on the shame...

Look down your rod and see if your guides are in line perfectly

I have never had line twist issues with a baitcaster , only with a spinning rod .
Maybe it's how you spool your reels ?
When I rig my baitcasters , I spool the line with the line spool " spinning " instead on laying the spool " flat " . When rigging the spinning set up , I lay the spool flat .
Another thing I have done recently , when using a spinning rod , I take out my rods the day before and tie the tag end to something in my yard , string out about 120feet of line , then run a warm wet cloth over the line "with the line slightly tight and It helps eliminate line twist when casting .
tight lines ,
Robb

How are you installing it on your reels? If it's wrong it will do that.

They are definitely being spooled properly. I've done them with both a spooling machine and the standard off the spool counter clockwise. It is not a function of how the line is being spooled because it is straight as an arrow with no twist until I get a handful of casts in to the day.

I don't have the issue with my blade and crank rods or my topwater baits, only with my flipping gear. I has only been happening since I switched to the current group of reels I'm running (Revo Premier and Revo Rockets).

Here is something to try to see if it helps. This is mainly meant for bait casters.


You need about 200 feet of clear open area to do this.

1. Take a barrel swivel. Put a 4/0 offset shank hook thru one eye of the swivel. Put a piece of cloth or something over the hook point.
This keeps the hook point from falling out of the eye of the swivel. I use a very small piece of Velcro cut to size.

2. Tie a offset shank hook on your line on your rod/reel. Put the hook thru the other end of the swivel.
Place the hook in step one to something that has a little give in it if possible. I use plant hangers that you can put in the yard.
If it does not have any give that is OK. Keep line tight while you do this.

3. Walk backwards keeping the line tight. Disengage the thumb bar while keeping pressure on the line.
Walk back as far as you can while keeping the line off the ground.
Stop about 20 feet or so short of the 200 feet. Or 10 % of the area you have to work with.

4. Engage the reel and take up the slack. Keep your thumb on the center of the spool so the drag does not come into play.
Walk backward until you think the line is a tight as you can get it. It may be 10-15 steps or more.
Wait 20 seconds or so and then reel the line up all the way back.

That will take care of any line twist.
I do this every time I go fishing with any soft plastic rod that I will be using.

Thanks Trickster. I will definitely give that a whirl tomorrow.

Any idea what is actually causing this line twist to occur. Again, I'm stumped on this and so are several other people. I've never had this happen before this season and cannot figure out what is actually causing it to occur.

Installing incorrectly. Must be.

explain "off the spool counterclockwise "
sounds like you may be spooling like a spinning reel.
I pull my line off a spool with a screwdriver, over the top or under the bottom I understand, clockwise or counterclockwise makes me think you are twisting it off the side.

If you are spooling with the spool laying down like you stated clockwise or counter clockwise that is wrong and that's how you do it for a spinning reel, bait casters come off the top of the spools. That is why I asked. Installed incorrectly causes line twist.

I have a spooling machine and do it that way a vast majority of the time, If I'm out of town, I'll put a dowl rod through the spool and put it on coming off the top of the spool and have never had this issue in the past. The line is fine when it goes on the spool, zero twist. The twist occurs as I pitch a jig or texas rig but the baits are not rolling over so I have no idea how the twist is getting into the line. The issue gets progressively worse cast after cast unless I let the bait hang and untwist.

Nothing wrong with the line or the spool. Your line is twisting during your jigging. I've had it happen a 1,000 times. It's your slab at the bottom of your line. It's simply spinning when you're pulling up. Put a swivel on it so it spins without affecting your line.

Are you keeping the line tight when you first spool? All line off a new spool can have some line twist but nothing like what you have described. When I spool line I do not have the reel on the rod. I put the spool between my legs while sitting down and reel the line over the top of the spool while keeping steady pressure on the line.

I have used a couple of Revos for a short time and don't recall this being an issue.

I have also done it with the the spool laying flat, label down, and having it come off the spool in a counter clockwise direction (yes like you would with spinning gear) I never have had an issue with any of these methods when spooling a baitcaster. The line twist is occuring AFTER the line is on the reel, not while it is going on.

FlatBack - have you tried experimenting with different jigs and had the same issue? Possibly a function of where the line tie is located on the jig and whether it is vertical or horizontal?

Odd.

Take your lure off in while on the water, slowly idle forward while letting out line. Once you have the amount you want out idle just a few minutes more and reel it back in. This will remove line twist. Since you aren't exactly sure what is happening, I'd try this first thing out then try fishing with it and see if it comes back that bad. Then I'd tie on something like a square bill that you know isn't going to twist in the water and try that for a bit. If it is something going wrong with the reel retrieving the line, which I doubt, you'll know. If it comes back after jigging again, I'd start looking at how you tie the knot.

I'm betting it's something happening when spooling the line, even if you are doing it correctly.

McBassman, a good post for discussion . . . just as you hoped and intended. I love these sorts of "puzzles."

Nope, you have the spooling on of the line correct: For a vertically positioned spool of line, using a baseball analogy, it comes off "overhanded" for a casting reel, "underhanded" for a spinning reel.

But, this isn't the issue here as this spooling on line correctly is more about line memory issues, less or nothing to do about line twisting. These are two separate issues.

And, you mention even "pitching" being an issue so you are likely talking about relatively short lengths of line going out, correct? Texas Rigs might imply longer casts. But, for the pitching the twist is happening with, say, 10 or 20 yards of line. Well, with that or any length cast and retrieve, if the terminal end where your line is affixed to your reel is fixed, it is(it isn't the source of twist), and if your jig/Texas Rig is truly swimming back without spinning, there is no way for twists to develop along the line excepting one: a source in between the line anchor point and its terminal end.

So, if you hooked, say, a rubber band around a nail on one end, stretched it out and held it with your left hand, both ends are now "fixed," then you could take a pencil in your right and place it anywhere along the stretched band and use it as a "crank" to twist or torque the the band. One end or the other, or something in-between, must rotate to twist the line. Think about a balsa wood rubberband toy airplane here as an example, how it is wound up.

But, is there anything in the line pick up of a baitcaster that torques the line? None that I can think of or imagine. The rod? No. Not so with a spinning reel where line twist can be an issue if one reels against drag. That will twist a line badly.

Anyway, it leaves you with two culprits: One is the obvious conclusion that your jig/TRig really is twisting . . . maybe not on the reeling in, maybe on the casting out. Two would be that there is something in your specific casting reel that puts torque the line.

Hmm? Another clue was your comment that "We are not talking some minor twist but literally looks like it has been crimped in every which direction." That crimping in "every which direction" makes it sound like the twisting is not all in one direction. I may be interpreting this wrong, but the twists should all be in one direction, not helter skelter.

I dismiss any idea that it is reel specific since you are commenting on it being an issue across several different makes and models. Same for the line where you have had the issue with several brands.

It leaves me thinking it is the bait spinning. I wonder if, with an experienced angler like you, it could have something to do with your knot putting a bias on the bait's "balance" causing it to spin on retrieval? Still, it somehow seems to relate to a "user" issue over an equipment issue.

Brad

Sounds like you are putting the line on correctly. I have noticed that some jigs will spin if you are pitching or flipping them. They don't when casting, only pitching or flipping.

Come to lunch at Bass Pro Grapevine next Thursday 8/31 and let's talk about it.

Brad, you are 100% correct on in everything you mentioned. There will be a section of line, usually 12-24" long, that is literally a crimped mess. The line before it (going back toward jig) can look fine and the line after it (going toward the reel) can also be fine. I am going to try and post of picture here of what I mean because it is completely bizarre.

I had the knot revelation yesterday... I have always tied a palomar knot on my jigs and a snell knot on my flippin hooks but yesterday I used a double improved clinch just for s**ts n giggles and the same thing happened. So, I dismiss the idea that it is the knot I am using.

I cannot imagine it being anything other than my bait is, in fact, rotating somehow and causing the twist in the line. The part that confuses me is that I have never had this issue until this year when I changed 3 things...the reels I use (now all Revo Premier or Revo Rockets), the brand of jig I use (they are a high quality hand tied tungsten jig), and the brand of rod I use. If I pitch that jig out and do a straight retrieve, it runs straight as an arrow, even if I burn it as fast as I can on a 9:1 ratio reel. I pitch, flip, or cast it and don't see it rolling over at all. I'll mention again that on some pitches, I'll pop it a couple times, reel back, pull the jig out of the water, and it looks like a top spinning because the line is so twisted. Other times, I'll do the same process and it will just hang and not spin a single time. I had a situation in a tournament last Sunday, right away in the morning where I pitched next to a dock, caught a 3 pounder, flipped it onto the deck and my 20lb fluoro looked like a twisted mess of 6lb line on spinning gear! I clipped the jig off, peeled all the line off my spool into the water, and cranked it back on. Problem solved. About 15 minutes later I caught another small keeper, flipped him on the deck, same issue.

FlatBack made a comment that -
"Nothing wrong with the line or the spool. Your line is twisting during your jigging. I've had it happen a 1,000 times. It's your slab at the bottom of your line. It's simply spinning when you're pulling up. Put a swivel on it so it spins without affecting your line."

I'm not going to put a swivel between my jig and main line but I am very curious about what he means about the spinning when I pull up on the line.

Thoughts?

I've been bass fishing for a long time and I've never heard of someone getting line twist while flipping/pitching a jig. Not calling you a liar, it's just very interesting.

This is what I would recommend.

Is the section of line that's kinking/twisting the section that is aprroximately the part of line that is at the tip of the rod during the initial flipping of the bait? It could be caused by using a heavy weight and flipping the bait a long distance. The weight will cause the line to kink around the tip guide as the rod loads up just prior to releasing the spool and letting it fly.

Also, I have had this problem x100 with Sunline products. The stuff will shred and burn just flipping. Never have a problem with Seaguar. I've had the Sunline shred (20 lb) just sliding on a weight peggit. Of course it breaks on hookset afterwards too.

yep i thought i had screwed up line just about every way possible at one time or another, but this i have never seen.

only time i have experienced line twist with a baitcaster is when throwing a weightless senko with no swivel, but it takes a good while to build up any noticeable twist and then its pretty easy to resolve it.

How many rod n reels you having this problem with ?

Steez, yes that is the part that is getting really messed up. You hit the nail on the head. I ran a bunch of tests today and think I have found the cause of it. I am comparing it to taking a pair of scissors and using them to get a ribbon to curl. The rod tip and the first several guides (all micro guides) sit so low to the blank that the line is actually rubbing and curling the line. This, combined with the twist or 2 that gets in the line from pitching the jig under docks, etc..., is causing one heck of a mess. I actually loaded up the rod and noticed that when i pop the jig hard or set the hook on a fish, the line is actually rubbing over the base of the guides and on the actual rod (ie - the line guides are not raised enough to prevent the line from grinding against the rod and eyelets upon retrieve.) This explains why after I catch a fish that line suddenly had mega twist in it...because so much friction is occurring that is actually warps or curls up the fluorocarbon. The angle the the line is at with the rod tip during close quarters combat only compounds the problem

I'm not sure the remedy on this. I am going to contact the manufacturer and talk to him about what is going on. I think I might be able to solve most of the issue by putting a slightly raised and larger rod tip on?

Anybody have thoughts on that?

Thanks!

Jigster - I was having the same problem with ALL my flipping rods (4 different setups). They are all the same line of rods just different weights and actions.

One thing to consider is the amount of slack you have around that top guide at a given point. Less slack would be less line to "loop and catch". Maybe a technique adjustment to your flip/pitch to keep a little more drag on the line is in order.

And the name of the manufacturer of those rods ?????
I am curious about how they responded to you .