Is there a 20+ in Texas somewhere?

I believe there is but would like others opinions also,one particular small lake in far east Tx I believe has one.

my $0.02 is that there are no 20# bass in Texas public lakes because it would have already been caught. There are too many good fisherman in this state to have not caught a 20#'er by now.

However, a private lake or pond is another matter.

Private waters.. Yes

I agree Texas has some very good fisherman,but we dont really have many guys who just go out and hunt that one fish like cali does.Plus our lakes are huge and I believe there are alot of fish in our lakes that never see a bait.

i firmly believe that theres one sitting somewhere in toledo bend. lakes too damn big to not have a behemoth sitting in it

I have said the same thing about Toledo.

I agree with Toledo Bend and also Rayburn.

I still think fork has more than one but she will never get caught Im afraid.

There may have been in the late '80s to mid '90s but doubtful today. Possibly in a heavily managed private lake. We really have too much extreme temp ranges in Texas for optimal growth and longevity.

I agree about the temps,but a bass like that will most likely dwell in deep water so temps shouldnt matter to much possibly.I wish some kid fishing a earthworm for perch would catch it lol

Except in summer when the thermocline would force her shallower and more susceptible to catching.

Maybe, but again, one would think that she would be caught at least once during the spawn. Maybe in the summer.

Regardless, it is fun to think about where they might be located in these lakes.

True but even still most of our best big bass lakes have a thermocline around 20 to 25 foot,thats still alot of water.

A lake the size of Toledo must have millions of bass swimming around,there is no possible way every fish in that lake even remotely gets close to being caught.

It will be a big deal if/when it happens. I hope somebody on the TFF is the one who catches her.

Lake Fork would of produced it back in it's heydays of the late 80's early 90's era.

I can only see one maybe coming from a private lake that is well managed.

Look to California, Japan or other places for more 20 plus bass to be caught

Maybe in Fork in the early 90's. When you're catching 15-17lbers there easily would have been a freak to make 20+. Nowadays I doubt it except for CB. The only difference between a 20 and a 13 is genetics. They don't necessarily act any different. It's not like a 20 will go live out in 45ft of water away from fisherman. It's going to act similar to other fish over 10lbs. It's similar in age just a freak genetically. I do believe there is a potential 16-18lb fish in Toledo.

If a public lake has one it's toledo. There's so many fish that never see a lure in that lake it's crazy. Some fish just spawn on small flats in the middle or never make it to the bank at all. I could see one living out close to the river channel where it doesn't have to move very far at all. It wasn't long ago a 14 was caught there.

I doubt it, even in private water.

Not in Texas. IMO

None in Texas. Never have been....never will be.

I personally hooked a bass that was between 21 - 22 pounds earlier this year on Toledo fishing a football jig tipped with a zoom ole monster worm in 40' of water on a main lake point just north of the dam. That fish was the fish of many lifetimes. When she took off for deep water she quickly spooled me down to the knot surfacing at least three times on her run. When my line snapped it sounded like a 22' rifle ringing out...and then I woke up.

I believe a 20+ lives in Toledo Bend, maybe Rayburn too. Once these bass reach a certain size they start feeding on crappie, bar fish, etc. and can gain weight quickly. The 14 lb.er I caught had just eaten a crappie that weighed nearly 1/2 pound. These bass stay in deeper water year round and probably never see a lure. Not all bass spawn ( I'm not the only one who think that )and never come to shallow water. Also some bass are known to spawn in deep water in tree tops.
Like the 18 lb.er that was caught at Fork by a crappie fisherman there's a better than even chance the 20 lb.er will be caught the same way.

I guess no one remembers this? It's possible, but not likely. Fork had the best chance at her peak. Toledo might. Rayburn might. Amistad might. Falcon would if the water came up and stayed constant for 10 years. However, I doubt we'll ever see one caught unless it comes from private waters.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/pound...f02be7d64e.html

On this basis alone, I think there is more than 1. I think a lot never see a lure. Like when we really catch flounder during the run, even if guys were shoulder to shoulder along the ship channel, I think only 10% get caught, rest are always out of reach. ie in deep water their whole lives.

I believe TP&W shocked up one that was over 18 in Lake Raven about 4-5 yrs ago.

But as these things go, it is a friend of a friend who gave me the info.

I believe Amistad could, JMO.

No. I really dont think there is.

I think the water gets too cold in winter and too hot in summer.

Those Cali bass get temperate weather year round. Cold water there is 55, warmest it might get is 78.

We see water in the 30s and 90s. I think that alone inhibits growth a little. 18# is about the max in Texas is my guess.

Why yes, yes there is and I know exactly where she is. I just ain't tellin you guys.

I think that there could be several in various public water bodies, and here's why. With the number of fish in each lake throughout the state, it would be ridiculous to say that "it would have been caught by now". I'd be willing to bet that a large portion of bass live their whole lives without ever being caught. If that is the case then how to lake records continue to be broken? I'm going to use lake Naconiche as an example. This lake was only impounded in 2009 (7 years), and has already produced a 14.12 as the lake record. To say that a lake like fork (36 years old) doesn't have one in it when the lake record is already 18.18 is silly. There's GOT to be one swimming the depths of one of these lakes somewhere. I just hope I'm the one lucky enough to prove it to you nonbelievers.

I believe there is a 20 lb bass swimming in Toledo Bend, Sam Rayburn, and Lake Fork. All three of these lakes have everything needed including age. One January or February morning we will all read online or in the paper about some lucky angler catching a 20+ on one of these lakes in the not too distant future! That is my prediction....and hope!

Exactly to think that because we are not catching them they dont exist is crazy,we know for a fact there are 15 and 16 pounders out there but guess what we hardly ever catch one of them.I believe if we had guys like some of the big bass hunters in cali,who spend days anchored up on spots and fishing with large live bait one of them would eventually catch it.

Toledo Bend no doubt in my mind has more than one 20+ on the lower end. Many very large bass on Toledo Bend spawn in the forks of the large oak trees that sit in 60 - 70 ft. of water. Many years ago the DeRidder Bass Club and the Leesville Bass Club use to target these fish and smoked everyone in team tournaments. The problem today is these trees are harder to find and the more open the lake becomes the harder they are to fish. With as many spotted bass, sand bass, yellow bass, and crappie in the open waters there is more than enough forage to never have to go shallow (less than 20 ft.) to feed so they will never see a lure

Phnx22 I to have heard this lake raven story,I personally caught a fish out there at night three years ago that was a little over thirty inches long,no scale so we just measured her and turned her loose,she did not have a massive gut however.My partner and I both believe she was around 15 pounds,but we will never know.That little lake is a mere shadow of itself nowdays,last time I went no pads,no grass,and dirty water.

I subscribe to John Hope's theory of "layers" that suggests a significant portion of fish live almost their whole lives at depths greater than 12 feet which puts them out of range for a large percentage of fisherman. If they spawn in tree tops or offshore as others have suggested, it's entirely possible they might have few if any encounters with fisherman. Big old fish can also develop a strong aversion to noise and depth finders which make them doubly difficult to approach. Add to this the fact that John also believed most fish over 7lbs are almost exclusively nocturnal feeders and you get a recipe for a whole subset of a fish population which are very difficult to catch the way most fisherman fish. They don't live or eat where and when most folks fish. Lastly add in the sheer acreage of water in Texas, and I'd almost be surprised if a fish of that class didn't exist somewhere. So yes, I think she's out there, but maybe not likely to be caught any time soon given the current state of bass fishing.

One final thought here. I'm aware of fish approaching this mark that have been shocked up in comparatively small private waters, yet they've never been hooked with rod and reel. If they aren't getting caught in these small lakes that get fished with some regularity, imagine how long the odds must be to catch one on a behemoth like T-bend.

The big fish in naconiche are brood fish stocked by tpw. They were already big when stocked. There were 10lbers caught soon after the lake opened to the public.

There hasn't been a bass over 16.8 pounds added to the Texas Top 50 in over 24 years. So this talk about how these 20's are out deep or in big lakes. What about the 17's, 18's, 19's??

If there are 20 pounders in Texas, then there has to be thousands of 17's, 18's, and 19's. Why is no one catching these? I suspect that there are far,far fewer of those fish than we all want to believe every time we slide our boats off the trailers.

I understand what you're saying and pretty much agree with you. But, for the sake of accuracy, there was one added in 1993 (23yrs) and one in 1997 (19 years).

I have witnessed and seen two Bass on Lake Amistad in the 20 lb. range. Both fish about 5 miles apart; so not the same fish. Each of them was very near the boat and I am getting a good view as each of them stunned a 1 lb. fish; one a shad and the other a small Bass. As the stunned fish lay quivering and trying to swim in a circle both of these huge Bass circle the bait then lay on their side and inhale them, taking them by the head. Each Bass thrashed themselves against the surface until the pray was swallowed then slowly drifted out of sight.

Needless to say both of these spots get thoroughly fished every time I go to Amistad. Both spots intersect at least 70 ft. of water which makes it very difficult to search out and fish for such fish. My suggestion is to fish as deep as possible in key areas on your lake of choice, especially when the wind will allow you to do so.

I also believe there are not huge populations of bass that size out there,but we know for a fact there are 16+ fish in fork for example and they are hardly ever caught and when they are they almost always fall for live bait.I believe the fish are almost completely night feeders,and have became immune to our tactics.

That is why I said "over 16.8."

I sure would like to think so!

I think naconiche will have potential fish in this class in two or three years,but good luck getting em in,that place is a jungle.

If a 20 lb fish exists in Texas, and no one can catch it, does it matter?

There's one in ray roberts but she swam to Lewisville

I agree with this...

In all honesty a fish of that caliber has probably already been caught at sometime and had a date with a fillet knife,lots of crappie guys,trotliners,and others out there that could give a dang about records.I met an elderly gentleman several years ago on houston county lake that ran trotlines everyday and he told me that he had caught one on a line with perch out there that went almost 17 pounds,but he said she was doing good so he just took out the hook and set her free

We will never know, Since Robby Rose went into exile........

I hope to prove you wrong on 11/16.

With the amount of bait fish I've seen this year at Fork, I would not be surprised that we see
some grande's come out of there this Jan-April,..20 pounds maybe possible in a few years if the wayet stays up
and the bait fish continue to thrive...

There's several 20's and one in the 25lb class in the back of Williams Creek, just the other side or the sink hole!!

No way any of those fish are 20+. The biggest would have to have gained almost 4 lbs since last spring/summer. I've seen the growth rate of the seven month old fish in that lake and they are simply astounding. But they are utilizing a much smaller size and much more plentiful food source. I think the offspring in that lake could reach 20+ lbs, but seriously doubt any of the "wolf pack" will ever attain that size.

With all of the advances in the electronics hanging off of some of these boats, it's hard to believe she is capable of hiding. Shoot I saw a boat at a Tourney with 5 graphs that were all 10" or bigger. You would think with that type of visibility into the water He would have caught her by now.

*Sarcasm Off*

I think there are several lakes capable of spitting out a 20# and that there is probably several swimming across the state. I agree with all of the lakes that have been mentioned as far as potentially having her. Amistad especially, I am with Donald Harper on that one.


** oh and nothing personal to those of you with 5 graphs

Yes Amistad for sure,deep and clear,the fish can see you coming from a mile away.I agree with the big lakes having the fish but the sheer size of the lake makes the odds astronomical of encountering it.I believe if our state record is to ever be broken it will happen in one of our small little pressured lakes with good cover.

I've seen several guys on here talk about spindletop bass club before. I once sat down with Mr. Perkins who was the president of the club then and he swears that on two separate occasions he had hooked into a fish in there that would no doubt be 22 pounds.

What happens when an 18 pounder eats a 2 pound bass,crappie,trout whatever. Is that an 18 pound fish that may be 20 pounds for a few days. Are these records set Of big bass that are super full of Un digested bait/Un laid eggs that are truly topped out. Take a look at the 17 pounder out of cali Mike Gilbert caught on video. That fish has been caught 3 years later at only 13 pounds... I don't think texas has the growing season. Or the perfect forage for a 20 pounder. Example cali has produced many fish in the boat. many many fish that would best our current state record. Common denominator. Weather, and trout...

There are 18#'rs in Texas ???

I agree with the trout,but I also believe we have at least a few fish in this size class,the main difference between here and cali to me is our coves are as big as their lakes and they are mostly devoid of cover to hide the fish from anglers,and there are guys out there who go after just fish like that unlike here where we mostly go fishing just to catch fish.

I hope so

I think Fork might produce a 20# sandbass one day. . .

A story was told to me several years ago before Doug Hannon passed away. Story was told that Doug went diving on Amistad in several different areas of the lake. In one particular area, Doug saw 2 fish that would go in the 20# class. Not sure how true this story is, but I sure would have loved to hear it from Doug himself.

Isn't there a floater mounted on the wall of Fishermans one stop/Bro's ?? It was 19+lbs if I remember correctly.
I'm not to worldly of a bass fisherman, been to Rayburrn, Murvaul, etc.. out that way. So I can't speculate elsewhere other than Fork.
If there is one, it's hiding in the brushpile on the bridge pillars... Feeds on crappie at will, snaps 6-lb test like I do a spiders web... I swear I've hung some monster cats in those brushpiles that wouldn't come out, might be a few were big big bass.. If they're in Fork, that's my guess, Bridge pillars.

No -about 16 is it with a few notable exceptions mostly mentioned above and at Fork Heyday- check out top 50 list.

I would be happy to prove myself wrong. Never say never!
And in reply to one post above- yes some of us hunt big bass here in Texas at least as diligently as other States.

I can't speak for Texas , I live in California ( my son lives in Texas and turned me onto TFF --great website ) . The difference for California bass is three main things . Most of our fisheries have deeper water , 100-250 feet deep in the bigger lakes . Some of our smaller lakes are like small private lakes and will regularly produce 10-14lb bass and nobody mentions it , these small lakes are 50-100 feet deep . Water temps are never below 45F and rarely exceed 78/80F. These moderate temps allow the bass to live longer . We also stock trout in our waters ---lots of them . One of the smaller lakes in my area ( NorCal ) used to stock trout once a week , you could see huge bass come up from deep water and eat one or two 12 inch trout and then shutdown for weeks at a time . If you weren't on the water when the trout stocking was happening , you had no chance at a teen fish . Really big bass eat big food , they don't mess around with threadfin shad or minnows . Guys out here throw giant swimbaits for the really big ones .
tight lines,
Robb

Agreed it would be a stretch for any in the new lake to be 20+ yet. Only time will tell. Personally, I think the only way to get em there will be with trout.

OH Ivie

There is one at F1 Stop but there is also one at Oak Ridge or there used to be. It went 20 lbs 8 oz and was found on April Fools Day. I was on the water with clients that day and heard about the fish. We all thought it was an April Fools joke.

Exactly 1oldbassguy guys out there dont even think about throwing foot long swimbaits all day everyday,different story here most guys dont even own baits like that,some buy them make a few cast nothing bites they put it down and start throwing a 1/2 crankbait or tx rig worm again.There are a few guys here like Jl said that are serious giants,but they are few and far between.

Probably not. .....but,

NO, maybe in 3-8yrs in a private lake that was stock with pure fl and a good diet for them to munch on.

The trout and the kokanee are the reason they get big out here.The last 6 world record spots have came from lakes that are stocked with trout and kokanee The kokanee are pure protein!!

Plus zero competition for food, pure genetics, stable weather. Most Cali giants spend most of their lives waiting for trout stockings under a dock or suspended out in deep water. It's nearly impossible to compare why Texas doesn't have 20lbers and Cali does. It's like 2 different planets.

Doug Hannon's suggested baits for a fish 20 +.

"The winning lure should be metallic and flashy, as opposed to barred and camouflaged. Metallic-colored fish rely on schooling for defense and have soft, non-spiny fins."

1) Rappel size 18 (seven-inch) in silver or gold with a black back.
2) AC Shiner size 675 (six-inch) in silver or gold with a black back.
3) Castaic Lures' Rainbow Trout, Gizzard Shad or Golden Shiner
4) Lunker City "Fin-S-Fish" in rainbow trout, pearl w/black back or smoke glitter.
5) A.C. Plug in rainbow trout, shiner or shad color pattern.

I'll give you a little history of our lakes
Zero competition for food, from Bakersfield north, most of our lakes are in the foot hills of the Sierras and used for irrigation, they will drop from 150' to 200' so a lake that is 15 miles long will be maybe 4-5 miles long. So all he fish are in a puddle.
pure genetics,most pure strain large mouths are bought & stocked by bass clubs.
Stable weather,that's in so. Cal.Again from Bakersfield north our lakes get snow in the winter & 105* in he summer.
Even with the draw down the lakes will still be 100+ ft. deep, but they only stock about 6 months out of the year.
It is 2 different scenarios.
But again I will say that it is the trout that makes them grow big..

As I said previously , can't really comment on Texas lakes . In California , it's a numbers question . More lakes that are deep , excellent food access , mostly stable weather . Example-- I learned to bass fish a lake in NorCal called Lake Amador . Very small , very deep , extremely fertile lake . Stocked in the seventies with Florida strain's , lake record sits at just under 18lbs caught in the eighties. Since the record , the people who run the lake have stocked crazy numbers of small , medium and large trout . I am 100% positive there are bass over 20 lbs , but they have so much food and the lake is almost 300feet deep with steep banks.It's impossible to catch those monster bass . If one small mostly unknown California lake has these bass , there are lots more with similar scenarios ---so in California , your much more likely to "run into" one of these monsters, it's a number question.

Personally I think the only state that will produce anything 20+ is Cali. You are talking about an extraordinary fish to get to that size. If Texas was capable I think it would have happened by now.

But Texas is capable,there has been a twenty pounder found dead on fork,yes that was years ago but you cant possibly believe the only twenty pound fish to ever live in Tx waters gets found dead one day on lake fork.

It wouldn't surprise me if one has already been caught and fileted from a gillnet fisherman on the Mexican side of Falcon.

Yup probably on amistad also,hell like I said before its probably been caught on fork or toledo by a trotliner or crappie guy and eaten.

I've caught a couple of 20lb+ fish on Hubbard, so they're out there for sure.

Wait, you mean largemouth? Oh, no.

Bring hydrilla back to Lake Austin and winter trout stockings and it could happen. With cool water flowing in from Travis, it keeps the temps in a more constant range, the lake level is also constant. I never saw water temps above 80 degrees back in 2010 and 2011. Coincidentally, the lake was kicking out SALs in excess then, including a 16.

With current TPWD strategy and the war on grass, I don't think it will happen anywhere in Texas. Need the habitat, food chain and water temps to make it happen.

Like California, Biwa in Japan produces giants because of deep water, more consistent temperature and high quality forage base (trout and giant bluegills). Loads of grass doesn't hurt either.

Beautiful fish, what did she weigh?

YES! Odds are a 20+ Florida strain is swiming around in several of the big lakes mentioned.

Y'all are so negative! Of course there's a 20+ fish in Texas! Hell, there's probably one in your home lake!! That's why yall throw thousands of dollars into the sport.. to hopefully catch that fish that puts you on the cover of the magazines and makes you internet famous for a week or so!

The only way we'll ever know is if we catch em all. Better start sooner rather than later.

OH Ivie maybe if it came up 25 foot and stayed there for 6-8 years.

without a doubt a 20 + in the state of texas

CRMWD will ensure this doesn't happen. Ivie would be a contender under those circumstances IMHO.

I remember reading an article 15-20 years ago and the late David Wharton (Rayburn guide, BASS pro) was quoted as saying the next state record would come from Rayburn and she would be caught on the south end of the lake in the deeper waters near the islands around twin dikes. Of course, this was the mid 90's and Rayburn was in great shape. A lot has changed since then. I have always remembered that article and have waited for years to see Wharton's claim come true. Personally, I know there are thousands upon thousands of bass who may never see a lure in their lifetime, but one thing bothers me and I believe someone pointed it out earlier in the thread. If there are 20's in our Texas lakes, the 16's, 17's and 18's should be coming with at least SOME regularity. That has not happened in the last 20 years. Personally, I believe that with the amount of hours that Texas fishermen put in and the wide variety of techniques being used, a high teen bass should be harvested with some regularity. If you asked me 20 years ago, I would say YES, there is a 20+ swimming around, but ask me today and I say definitely not.

Rayburn had a huge fish kill after David made that prediction. I remember fishing with a guide one day when I caught a heavy 8 pounder on a c-rig. He said it was the biggest fish he'd seen in two years. Put it in the live well and took it to the ramp to show everyone. Don't remember the year but it was at least 10 years ago.

Fouz,

So you remember that prediction as well? That article has resonated with me over the years. I tried to find it on the web and was unsuccessful.
I remember fishing with my father in and around the Peckerwood area/Mudd Creek in the mid 90's and him telling me that the boat ahead of us was David (Gold/white Nitro). He told me "watch that dude, he knows what he is doing". I (and many others obviously) still hammer that area every year and it just keeps producing large fish.

there is one on ray roberts in the hydrilla

Yes sir. David Wharton was one of the best guides and tournament anglers, ever! Too bad we lost him so young.

Reading all these post a lot of things are apparent and there are commonality in many. Most agree that deep water is a must, that the proper forage be present and most of these huge bass never come to shallow water where they would be pressured and have to compete for food. That's why as I stated in a previous post that there probably is a 20+ in either Toledo Bend or Rayburn. Some theorize that if that was the case why aren't more 16,17 or 18's caught. Possibly because we aren't spending enough time fishing deeper water where they're at. Possibly because we aren't using baits that resemble what they are feeding on. You probably won't catch one of these monsters in 5-10 ft. of water on a 7" blue fleck power worm. The last few big bass tournaments on Fork, Rayburn and Toledo Bend produced very few DD bass, not because people aren't fishing for them, they just aren't fishing where they're at and there were thousands trying. I don't know anyone who is going to spend hour after hour, day after day fishing in 40-50 ft. of water with a 8" swim bait or even huge live bait to try and catch one so even though I think they're out there they probably won't get caught.

Man, if I could find a way to catch and keep giant gizzard shad alive, I would!

I don't believe the deep water theory. Ask the cat fish guys how much time they spend fishing a live bluegill in 40' of water. Big bass don't stay in deep water 365 days a year, they go where the food is.

Good points Gig Em. Me personally, I spend very little time fishing water that is deeper than the length of my boat. But I do know there are folks who do. I know seasonal patterns play a major role in the depth of water we all fish. It would be interesting to see a breakdown (in actual %) in the depths we all fish annually. I don't think I would be going out on a limb if I said we all fish 25-30 foot of water or deeper less than 5-10% of the time.

Plenty of food in deep water Huck, crappie, sand bass, bar fish. Big bass no longer chase shad or crawfish once they get 14lbs and larger. The 18 that was caught at Fork was in 40+ ft. of water eating crappie.

This time of year I doubt there are any in Texas on any body of water. But in the Spring I think there are a few. All about timing.

Exactly,the food is in deepwater,not much up shallow for a manbearpig.

I think you're more than right Geo, weekend anglers are going to fish places that are easy to get to and easy to fish. How many times have you heard tournament anglers say " we're gonna try and catch a limit and then try to cull" and head straight for shallow water with a spinner bait and try to cover a lot of water. There is some really deep water off both Little Caney points but the only folks you see fishing there are crappie fishermen and that's exactly where the state record was caught. I will usually spend no more that 3 hours fishing water deeper than 25 ft. because by then I just want to catch anything and head to brush, boat docks or creeks and I think a lot of folks do the same.

I agree about the timing,it's all about catching it after a hefty meal,or full of eeggs

I know there's food out there, I'm just saying there are plenty of other people besides bass fishermen who fish deep water with live bait.

Big bass do not spend their entire life in one depth range. The best time to catch them is when they are relatively shallower and more likely to make a mistake and bite.
The reason Texas has a max size about 3-4 lb less is simply because of the geographical location, that's it. All those things like trout, depth, temp, etc are due to location.
Winter and early spring more fish weigh their max so timing is important, at least for increasing odds.

I disagree our max size is three or four pounds less or we would have never had a 20 1/2 pound fish found floating,if our temps,forage and all the above are not conducive for fish of that size then said fish would have never been found

NO
No California conditions = no 20 lb lmb
Trout stocking in clear water a big factor
Many good fisherman with advanced technology fishing many hours catching fewer and fewer 15+ lmb

one of the best posts of the year !
Back in the mid seventies and eighties , SoCal bass fisherman that targeted just big bass NEVER fished shallow . They used those old hummingbird flashers ( 0-60 feet) and looked for submerged rock plies and humps in 30-40 feet . They would spend whatever they needed to get the biggest crawdads that money could buy and drop those baits in just those area's . They didn't care about getting 5 or 10 bites , they just wanted 1 or 2 big bites and they were willing to spend all day doing it . Most of them fished at night on full moons ---and they caught big bass . It wasn't until Dave Zimmerlee caught that 20+ pounder in shallow water in San Diego for bass fisherman to start hunting for big bass in shallow water during the spawn . The big bass in SoCal were killed off in the mid eighties and early nineties due to two severe droughts and those lakes never really fully recovered . Also , how often are big bass really active ? If a really big bass eats a couple 1 lb bluegill , crappie or a 12" trout , my guess is they aren't active again for weeks , possibly longer ---so again odds go way down that a big bass chases our 6" senko , 1/2oz spinnerbait or 6XD.

Incorrect,California is not the only place in the world with 20 pound fish,Florida,Georgia,and Japan all have fish caught in that size,yes many years ago.Mexico,Cuba,and Texas also probably have such fish they just haven't been caught.

The advanced technology may be one reason we are not catching such fish also,I believe most bass are becoming wary of sonar ping.

You got it right Skeeter, everything needed for a 20lb'er is here in Texas just not enough anglers trying and fishing the right area. I stick with my theory that not all bass spawn or come to shallow water. Like humans once bass get used to a certain diet they stay with it. You don't see many 300 lb. football players eating yogurt and you want see 18-20 lb. bass eating threadfin shad.

Exactly gig em,everyone thinks because they are not catching them in 4 foot of water on their kvd squarebills it doesn't exist

If I want to keep catching 14-16 b fish I'll stay here, but if I want one over 18 I'll need to go to another place geographically speaking- just saying. I'm talking odds here, not impossibilities.

I agree the odds are definitely stacked against us encountering the fish here Jl,but I still think there has to at least be a few out there,but yes your odds are much better catching one out of a deep farm pond out in California where they pretty much get hand feed trout.

Yes and as negative as I seem I would really love it if someone (even a TFFer)!),
caught a 20 or even a new State record here in Texas.
I guess since at least one over 20 was found that gives us all hope. It is a big state with
many large and small bodies of water that may go unmolested. And it is true that the temp zone that seems to be the sweet spot goes through part of our state. Skeeterbbq I suppose it is possible even now for a Texas 20lber to be out there. So maybe I do agree with you! I'm getting more positive even as I type!!-lol! Deeper water does offer protection and possibly allow for a longer lifespan. I suppose it's also possible that some very large females don't go shallow to spawn or spawn in treetops- making them essentially impossible to catch. I guess we just have to keep the lines wet and hope we will get one.

The chances of a 20+ in Texas is not like finding a needle in a haystack. It would be like finding a needle in a thousand haystacks. It's not impossible but looking at reality it's almost as unlikely. Texas' best and most outstanding producer of huge bass has given up a single 18 lber. That was in her absolute prime years. A handful of 17 and a good number of 16+ with numerous 15+ were being caught in those years. There is likely no difference in the behavior and likelihood of being caught between a 17 and a 20 lb bass, If they are there to be caught.
The two huge bass found dead on Fork, 19 and 20 lbs may have weighed several pounds less when live. There have been studies done that show a bass will gain weight from water bloat during the first couple of days after death.

20 lb bass have been caught in other places because they exist in those places.

And they exist here.

Can there be a bass weighing 20 here? Sure, but I think the window of opportunity to find that fish is very narrow. I don't think a LMB can sustain those weights constantly. Dottie (Cali) was caught and weighed several times and her weight would fluctuate 4-5 lbs. One group claimed she lost 2-3 lbs waiting on Fish&Game to arrive which cost them a world record. At her heaviest recorded she was 25 and when they found her dead she was at 19. I think if a 20 is caught it is going to be more like a 15 that has fattened up for whatever reason. 20lb bass could be very common but that has not been proved. The data suggests that it is a very rare occurence. For me I think it's because there just isn't that many of them and the ones that are out there are freaks of nature. So you are looking for that needle in a haystack. I do hope one of us finds it though.

The huge Bass are there in many of our lakes. We just are not fishing for them in deep water and using the baits that mimic and swim exactly like the food source they are praying upon which can be several species of fish. Doug Hannon has dove and made pictures of the 20 + Bass on Lake Amistad and I have seen two of them up close taking stunned pray. I have searched all of the internet articles on his research and cannot find the article or the pictures that was mentioned earlier. I know he was there and saw the equipment being loaded but did not take the time to talk to him as I had guest to take care of.

Vertical ledges reaching the depths of 100 ft. or more is where they like to be. A Shads life is swimming that wall out to the river channel then back into the canyons day and night. They are constantly on the move in big schools hugging that wall back and forth. You can mark them on your depth finder on Amistad in at least 3 wonderful spots that I know. The schools of big Bass are unbelievable against those walls just suspended. Getting them to bite, and having the wind to cooperate to keep that bait dead still against the wall is another story.

There are many Bass that live in all depths of the lake. I want guess at those percentages; but many researchers have said that only 10% of them live in 10 ft or less of water. It is my belief that once a big fish is caught many things change in its life for it to survive; like becoming acclimated to artificial baits, motor sounds, especially trolling motors and sonar pings. I also believe that these pressures move big fish at some point, that live shallow, to deeper water for the rest of their lives.

I would love to spend a week looking for those right spots with someone that has the right equipment on the boat. We would look for all the irregular features protruding out from these walls. Many of these secondary protruding ledges at 20 to 30 ft. have heavy hard wood on them and it is my belief that these are the spots to lay into one of the biggest fish of your life. I have never run across anyone that is willing to put in that kind of time away from catching fish to find these spots. My whole life has been about tournament fish and not about getting that one big bite.

Dang it epicoutdoors! I was just starting to feel positive!
Idk, you guys are all making good points for and against. Very interesting topic.
Those spots do sound good Mr Harper.
For me I guess it's unlikely but never say never.

I agree with mr.harper fishing for a limit and fishing for a giant are two totally different things.

I agree. Never say never.

I held the highest of hopes for many years that it could happen but with the apparent indifference in giving our lakes the chance with great bass habitat, the overall condition of the bass herd in Texas is less than it could be.

I think the SL program may have better results if it was the "Save The Aquatic Vegetation" program.

I have been thinking the same thing as the guys saying where are all the fish weighing in the teens. I doubt there is a 20lber swimming year around, but you catch the right fish, full of eggs with few lbs of meat in the belly, it could weigh 20lbs.

Here are the top 50 fish in Texas over the last 10 years.
45 Lake Fork 15.5 25.25  2/21/2006 Billy Pfeil
42 Merritt (Private) 15.54 27.12  3/9/2007 Jesse Roberson
48 Choke Canyon Reservoir 15.45 26.25  1/21/2009 Brad Bookmyer
29 Conroe 15.93 27  1/30/2009 Ricky Bearden
16 Caddo 16.17 26.5  3/20/2010 Keith Burns
39 Lake Fork 15.61 25.25  3/22/2010 James Quisenberry
19 O. H. Ivie 16.08 28  4/30/2010 Jerry Bales
37 Falcon 15.63 28  1/7/2011 Tommy Law
24 Austin 16.03 28.25  1/27/2011 T.J. Nissen
20 Caddo 16.07 27  3/18/2011 Sean Swank
22 Lake Fork 16.04 25.75  2/2/2013 Richard Scibek

Problem is that the ones you listed already have that "extra" poundage due to the time of year they were caught.

Great thread here guys. Just the thought that there are NONE or 500 of them swimming around in this state is fascinating to me. It's quite humbling, with all the technology we have, and all the knowledge we think to be correct, we simply do not have solid evidence that one does or does not swim in Texas waters.

Im not an avid bass fisherman but if we can grow a 121 pound catfish, it's reasonable to think we can grow a 20 pound bass.

I too have held out high hopes for the Lone Star State to produce a 20+ pound bass. I really fear our window of opportunity is closing on public lakes however. I believe the best shot we have at seeing a legit 20 pound bass is from an intensively managed private body of water like La Perla or Camelot Bell and even then, I think our hot summers work against it.

A bass has to live long enough to get that big. A bass has to be the apex predator in that body of water and it has to have truck loads of food! Very few private lake owners are willing to cull like they need to or able to spend the money it takes to keep the food source where it needs to be to grow true giants.

Here's the list of the Top 25 all time biggest bass from around the world. Pretty sad, Texas ain't on the list!!

http://sdfish.com/top-lists/worlds-25-biggest-largemouth-bass/

Bottom right picture in the link looks like a 6#'r

The original post was " is there a 20+ in Texas somewhere ? not would someone catch one which obviously most of us doubt will happen for various reasons, mostly because no one would spend the time or effort it would take. I suppose if someone would put up $1,ooo,ooo for a 20+ there would be some takers but not likely to happen. I think Mr. Harper is on the right track to locate one where the water is clear enough to scuba dive and maybe film one but to actually catch one of these beast is another story. I've caught a 14+ and certainly it was one of the highlites of my angling career but to be perfectly honest I'd just as soon catch a 20lb limit in a tournament than spend the time and effort to try and catch 1 20lb'er and I'm probably not alone. So Mr. 20 lb'er out there wherever you are, and I know you're out there, you are safe from this 'ol bass man. We'll keep talking and thinking and arguing about you though cause that's what us bass chasers do.

When the main food source in California is stocked rainbow trout, that makes a major difference and those bass out west are trained to listen for the delivery truck.
Take guys like Bob Crupi, he would tie off in deep water with two anchors and split shot a live crawfish, then wait.
Mike Long, throws only big baits and he catches huge bass.
Bill Murphy, studied the movements of the bass out there.

Guys like these are targeting specifically 15 pound plus bass that's it. Another factor is those California lakes, they are all seasonal and you can only fish certain hours of the day. You have to buy a daily fishing permit along with your license.

Is there a 20 pound plus bass here, I have no doubt. I will use Ray Roberts as my lake of choice... the stock tanks that were flooded when the lake started to fill had big bass in them already. I'm sure fork has one or two in there as well. Someone just needs to target those 15 pound plus bass and will stumble onto one of 20. I just think with the size of our lakes, no trout but we do have tilapia that helps too but the size of our lakes compared to Southern California lakes, our lake are 5-10 times bigger, it's harder to find them.

Sandy DeFresco’s story, which is the last one, is interesting. Sounds like Mr. Rose may have had something to do with this fish.

Bingo...

Ha, Mr. Rose has found himself in the LMB history book and for all the wrong reasons and back in the TFF.

I agree with a previous comment about the state and vegetation,it seems as if we have entered an all out war on hydrilla.

All this talk about what it takes to grow a big bass and where it has to be. It makes me think that George Perry might not have had a 22lb Bass. Real few details about that fish, man and catch. Just doesn't make sense in Georgia.

But hey if it can happen in Georgia, why not Texas.

I believe the record from Georgia,what would a man have to gain from lying about it in 1932.As far as the scales it was weighed on now thats another question..

Noticing a correlation between time of season and year...last major drought took place between 2010 to 2015. Might see some bigguns being plucked out of the water in the next couple of years. Full lakes, good spawns, more cover, more fish, just a thought

I agree with that thought as well.

I honestly was catching more and bigger fish during the drought,this year has been really off for me.

Years ago there was talk around Fork that SRA or TP&W was considering blocking off a couple of the major spawning coves for one season to help have a better and more productive spawn but couldn't get enough support from marinas and anglers. Might have helped the fishery and improve the chances of more DD being caught but we'll never know. I know the stockings haven't improved anything. Having fished both Rayburn and Toledo Bend I believe they are a better fishery than Fork at this stage and without a slot. JMO

Two opposite thoughts: I think the possibility of a fish that size is not unrealistic in Texas - most likely in the deep water scenarios mentioned already. Also, I know there are BIG fish in Toledo Bend & other lakes that have never seen a lure due to access. In the late 80's, my brother & I were fishing on T-Bend with guide Bill Fox. We bass fished in the AM & went striper fishing in the afternoon. Fox was well known at the time for big stripers as evidenced by his 37+ on the wall at Fox's Lodge. We were fishing in 35-40 feet with 3/4 oz bucktail jigs with a huge pearl trailer. I had just caught an 18+ & was re-tieing when my brother hooked up, but this time it didn't stay deep like the stripers. My brother was reeling as fast as he could with the old Ambassadors we had, but didn't catch up before the biggest bass any of the three of us had ever seen tried to tail walk, but just thrashed on top until she spit the jig. Fox said that that bass was heavier that the big striper I just landed (his opinion of course) & bigger than any he had ever seen on Toledo Bend in all of his guiding years. We were all stunned & just sat there in disbelief. Fox, bragging about his recent sobriety, started drinking again that night lol! All he could talk about for the next 3 days was what that fish would have done for him & Fox's Lodge. Again, this was in 35-40 feet on the river channel - not where a lot of bass fishing happens.

On the other side, it's been 9 years since the record in Japan & longer than that even with the some of the 20+ Cali trout feds.

I, like the rest of you, would love to see it happen in Texas.

I honestly believe that if more people fished at night regardless of season,the state record would have already been broken.

Skeeter, night time is good for 2 things and fishin' ain't one of them. Tried it once and made it until 10pm. Can't see [censored] to cast at, if you have a light on the bugs eat you up and those hidden stumps make it hard to keep your balance while your on the trolling motor. Nope, I'm strictly a day time fisherman.

You stole my (Jimmy's) line!

Lol night time is the best time.

After reading all this great info, Im waitn for the coldest day in January, I'm gettn a 12" swim bait and sittin out on in the river channel and waitn'em out! Who's in?

You're on your own bro.....

You'd have better luck catching a Sasquatch.

Why am I suddenly getting the urge to go buy big swimbaits...

Ha, ha. As long as you do it at night and set your hydrowave to the trout truck setting.

Trout truck setting lol.

Little food for thought guys,over the past five years I've caught eleven fish over ten pounds and all but two have been at night.

you guys made me order some bigger swimbaits to play around with, a 9" trout style and a 7" 4.5 oz shad style. going to need a bigger rod now!

The big 3:16 rising son is a dang good bait,but gotta add weight to it or it stays on the surface.

Skeeterbbq, You're not giving away any secrets. Lake Fork and lakes across the state have been hammered relentlessly, pummeled, power fished, finessed, swim baited, live baited, scienced and scanned day and night top to bottom and all but seined and drained by the best big bassers from this state and around the country.

Never said I was did I,but the truth is far fewer people fish at night than during the day..Do they not?

Obviously, but the night fishing effort at Fork and across the state has been strong since moonlight was invented.

Yes it's incredibly strong,twenty boat trailers in the parking lot versus a hundred.

And I have been on Rayburn in the summer on full moon nights,and ran ten or more miles in all directions and not seen another boat,and moonlight was invented around that time..

Pretty sure Fork had a few in the 90's and may still have one somewhere. Too many tournaments here and not enough big swimbait fisherman these days though to catch one.

And you have how many 20 lbers now? You must not be timing your casts with the unicorn crossing the dam and wishing on that shooting star.

Didn't say I have any did I,where is yours???

17 pound fish is a better debate.

Yes a more realistic debate like that or is there a State record swimming around.
Huge gap from 17-18 to 20.

Similar (almost identical thread) from ten years ago had a very positive consensus sentiment.

That's not a huge gap,it's one large meal.

Some of you might find the book "Sowbelly" by Monte Burke of interest and useful in providing insight to the California super large bass situation.

There are things swimming around in our lakes that would make you cry. Just because we aren't catching them doesn't mean they don't exist. Mother nature is smarter than we will ever be. A big fish doesn't get big by being stupid, and in most lakes there is a lot of water that never even gets touched for whatever reason. A fish could literally sit in 80 feet of water on nothing. Maybe our skills aren't quite what we would like to believe they are? a 20lber is a rare specimen, but we have the genetics, weather, and food in our lakes to grow them. So yes, I do think there is a 20 swimming around in TX somewhere. It may take something WAY outside the box and a lot of patience for someone to ever catch one that big.

Great book

It has been mentioned on here a few times, but you would think that with all the jug lines, trot lines, the catfish fishermen, etc. using live bait much like how it has been stated needs to be used to catch the 20 lb fish that one of those guys would have hooked into one by now. Odds are that if someone did catch one even close to that size they would mention it or show it to people. Those people using trot lines, etc. are still fishermen and know what a big bass is.
But, I do think there is a decent probability that one 16 lb fish eats a few pounds of food and has a few pounds of eggs in her and might just hit the 20 lb mark for a day or so out of the year. Odds of anyone catching her is probably unrealistic.

That's good Skeeter, means I won't have to worry 'bout you fishing my spots, lol. This may be some disappointing news for you though, of the top 25 largest bass caught in Texas, none were caught at night. But keep trying skeeter, you could be the first.

And only 3 were caught outside of late winter to mid spring. I don't like to fish at night to begin with and I am definitely not going out at night during that part of the year.

Who's Jimmy ?

Ken maybe you will catch a 15 with a 5lb bass in its belly later next month at Bell!!
That's my new tactic!

That's Jimmy Houston's from long ago.

So I feel it's highly highly unlikely but not impossible for a twenty to be swimming in Texas.
To catch even a 15 lb bass in Texas is nearly impossible without serious time and commitment and some luck. To get one over 18 would take all that and some magic spells as well I fear but if it happens I think the most likely scenario would be with a bait not necessarily known for big fish- fished very slowly and with a lot of luck in relatively shallow water near deeper water, probably by somebody not trying to catch a giant. The other most likely way would be bed fishing as big bass are MOST vulnerable for a brief time during the spawning process, and would weigh out heavy when they first spawn. A live bait fished around bridges or roadbeds might do it, if one doesn't mind the live bait part. Odds are winter thru spring will be the time. A lake that is private or possibly pounded less but has all the qualities needed might be the most likely place. IMO anyway.

I think there's a good chance for a 20 lber to be in any of the Texas lakes mentioned. These aren't gonna be anything like a normal bass tho. Back in the early 80's when the water had 20' visibility over the grass beds I was able to watch some of those monster 24"+ fish while scuba diving. You would find them exactly where you would expect to and that was wherever they wanted to be. Didn't see anything that would go 20 lb but the lake was young then. One thing for sure was they weren't spooky as long as you stayed outside their safe zone and they never got in a hurry or did anything very aggressive. You could spook one off her spot 10 times and she would just ease around in a big circle and go right back where she was. Sometimes they would just cruise by you when sitting still like they were a little curious.
I'm pretty sure those biguns don't get any dumber with age.

If it is a Legit 15 I don't care what it just ate!

No

My dad caught one in Mexico that had a blackbird in his tummy. Yep he ate it, not the blackbird, the bass. This was in 1954 before catch and release and there wasn't a McDonalds for 100's of miles. The point was, you might be surprised what these bass will eat, or can eat.

There's a little public lake here in east Texas, that I wouldn't be surprised if one did pop up. But who knows!

Sorry gigem but your information is incorrect,Troy Coates caught his 17 pounder at night from the bank at lake fork....

Ranger is the lake you speak of full of hydrilla?

Well nobody's perfect but I was 99% right. Besides, fishing from the bank don't count.

Public water, hard to believe. Private water? Yes. I personally saw a friend catch a 15 which is no where near a 20, on private waters.

That was a dumb fish. He coated his craws in WD-40.

The fish have been dumb but Troy Coates was legit. He knew when to fish and he knew where. He had landed several giants from the bank including two more over 13.

I know a few guys that swear by WD 40,I tried it but didnt notice a difference either way,its a bass not a catfish I dont believe scents make a difference except possibly in extremly muddy water.

I knew an older gentleman that would spray WD40 all over the backs of his hands and sit in the hot sun. He swore it helped his arthritic joints feel better.

As for a bass attractant, not so much for me.

A little more 411 on Troy Coates and the 17 he caught in the very back of Boardtree.

Joe Axton was fishing down the north bank of Boardtree throwing his favorite black Hildrebrandt spinner and heard the commotion when Troy hooked the giant. He said he saw Troy land the fish and throw it into the back of his pickup truck and speed off.

Later I discovered that Troy had called Linda Starnes, owner of Star Mart, at home and asked her to come unlock the bait room so he could weigh the fish. He thought it was a new state record and so did Linda. After weighing the fish they put it in the minnow vat and waited for David Campbell to arrive from Athens to take the fish into the SAL program. I do not think Troy had a tank in the back of his pickup because the fish died in transit to Athens.

After you use it for 50 years and fish in places where it is possible to catch 100 Bass per day you will notice a huge difference in using scent. This is not only on catching numbers of fish but sewing up the deal on Big Bass that are looking for the real deal.

Sounds like some good advice for when I get over the hill Ken.

Good stories about those Fork days. Hopefully new stories will emerge. I hope we don't have to always talk about days gone by in Texas.
I think a fish or multiple fish on multiple lakes is swimming around that weighs 16-17, maybe 18. I just don't want it to have to eat a 3-4lb fish with the tail hanging out of its mouth to get to 20-lol! That's not the Texas way.
I had just about retired from big bass chasing but this thread is getting my mojo up. I may not be done yet. It's a very challenging hobby and too often turns to obsession.

Good read.... enjoyed it.....if someone said this, I didn't see it, but the biggest bass in Fork are also the smartest fish in Fork....they are not getting caught near a trolling motor or sonar....and likely not on anything but live bait then.....I seem to remember an old boy that tracked them and they swam off if there was any noise.....that was a long time ago.... they've seen it all now for sure.

IMHO, no 20 lber exist in Texas..... unless a 17.5 eats a big meal right before.....Fork is set up good if some grass will flourish.... should be fun over the next decade

^^agree about the live bait on fork,good friend of mine lives at LFM and he personally knows of four fish over 13 caught this summer and all but one was on live bait,and none of them were bass fishing.

I posted this previously , the guys in SoCal back in the seventies and eighties used to go out at full moon nights , anchor up on big deep rockpiles and humps using those old hummingbird flashers and drop the biggest crawdads they could find . In Norcal , the California delta has Crawdads that regularly get 9-11" long , I guarantee the biggest bass know where , how and when to eat those .The only way someone in Texas is getting one over 20 lbs is with live bait , in deep water , during prespawn . If the Texas lakes can keep from having severe drought's with average to above average rainfall for 5-7 years , there's a good chance a 20lb pops back up .

^^I agree

It seems that some think that an imaginary 19 or 20 lb bass in Texas would somehow be smarter and more difficult to catch than the 19,20,21 and 22 lb bass that have been caught in the gin clear waters of California. Several of those Cali monsters have even been caught multiple times. They have been caught on various types of live baits and lures. Some have been caught by well known big bass experts and some by average Joes. The point being that where 20 lb bass exist, they are caught by fishermen.
Someone wrote that Texas has the genetics, habitat and food supply to produce 20 lb bass. The evidence indicates that this is simply not the case.

^Much easier to find such a fish in a 50 to 500 acre lake in locations where it is known the fish will be due to trout stockings than in a 27,000 or 185,000 acre lake where the fish could be anywhere.

All good points epicoutdoors. All of those points hold us back here in Texas from catching one. I wish there was a way to follow more closely in the footsteps of the California programs; but that is not going to happen. I thank we have the genetics part right but it seems the stocking program is just banging its head against the wall.

My main question is; how many more species of fish do the Cali. lakes have in them to compete with the Bass? Now may of these lake are on huge river systems as our TX. lakes are.
- It seems that our TX. lakes are all stocked with multiple species so the public can enjoy fishing for the species of their choice. This puts the Bass in competition which reduces many aspects of producing a super fish as they become a food source during spawns.
- Even if they were not stocked with different species, being on a river system would always put invasive species in our lakes to compete and hold down the Bass population.
- Our lakes are so diverse in habitat. Some are deep, river fed, shallow, full of rock, full of grass, no grass, hard woods, flooding, drought and it goes on.
- TX. lakes that have received great attention through programs to establish big Bass have all seemed to produce in the beginning. As time prevails these other factors as mentioned takes it's told and they become average fisheries.

There are not many lakes in TX. that match the Cali. habitat. The ones that do are still on major river systems and could never be controlled. Private concern seems to be the only answer to produce a controlled environment or habitat and that cost an individual millions of dollars.

I tend to agree with this. Lake Dixon is a 70 acre state park lake with crystal clear water. It is described as a dish bowl, deep water in the middle with very little bottom structure. I have read everything that has ever been written about that Dottie. She was caught all three times when she was most vulnerable, during her spawn. The fact that Dottie was caught three times leads me to believe she may have been the lone 20+ in the pond.

If there had been multiple 20+ pounders swimming around the shallows during the spawn someone would've put a hook in them and we would have read about more than just Dottie from Lake Dixon.

You make some great points Donald. I think we should play to our strengths and stop thinking about producing 20 lbers. If we could cultivate the mindset to protect and proliferate great bass habitat rather than destroy it (e.g. the overstocking of grass carp) and continue with Florida bass stockings where they will flourish. We could likely have many more situations that would give fishermen opportunities to catch more bass of 9,10,11 or 12 lbs and possibly larger.

I agree with you guys.

Agree with you guys as well.

Lake Fork has more pressure on it than the entire state of California.....if you don't know that educates the bass your misinformed..... Texas will never grow a 20 because every 10-13 gets a boat ride no matter what

I cordially disagree here. Think about it in terms of fishing hours per acre. One twenty pounder in a gin clear 70 acre lake with a crew of guys fishing specifically for her 12 hours a day Jan-May. Even with enormous effort on a small lake, this fish was only caught three times, once foul hooked, and they knew where she lived! Actually they knew where she lived down to a couple of acres. They spent tens of thousands of hours targeting this specific fish on a couple of specific acres in the lake. Now, put the same fish in Toledo bend which is 2,500 times the size, has a fraction of the visibility, and very few folks actually targeting giant bass. Frankly if she were in there, it would be statistically shocking if she had been caught.

Here's another statistic. Lake Biwa, at 165,000 acres, is close to the same size as Toledo Bend. Lake Biwa had a 22 lber in it and it got caught! Quite shocking!

How much bass fishing pressure on Biwa??

These are all good points and have credibility, but I'm sticking to my opinion and can't be proven wrong. I believe there is a 20 lb. + in Toledo Bend and possibly in Amistad and Rayburn and maybe in Fork, however I doubt one will be caught because NOBODY is going to spend the time or effort it would take to catch one even using live bait. Someone mentioned Doug Hannon had filmed bass that large at Amistad but there is no proof. These lakes do have the depth, habitat and forage to produce huge bass, we just don't have the anglers willing to spend the time to catch them. Most if not all the great anglers we have are tournament anglers and have no interest or the time to spend fishing for one bass, so if one accidentally gets caught it will probably be by someone fishing for another species. Remember this is MY opinion but comes after over 50 years of fishing and on many many lakes.

http://www.bassfan.com/docktalk_article/14967/bass-cat-s-pierce-experiences-biwa-pressure

One post arguing that it's pressure that makes them impossible to catch and another arguing that it takes immense pressure to catch one.


Reality is, where they exist, they are likely to be caught.

Well GIGEM I for one do not agree with you but I gotta admit it's all opinions and yours is as good as anybody's. That's one reason this is a cool thread. I have a bit of big bass fishing experience to base my opinions on as well, so I'm going with those experiences although I always try to keep an open mind.

My opinion is more exciting JL don't you think ? Every angler I know thinks the next cast will produce the biggest fish he's ever caught. I was thinking that when I caught that 14lb. and tomorrow when I make my first cast at Fork I'll be thinking the same thing.

Lake Pinkston

Well yes and I DO still say Never say never!
And I have always put Pinkston on my radar but have never fished there- lot of good qualities from what I read.

I mentioned before , best post of the year .
I will add some additional thoughts . How many people that have posted this thread and or just read this thread know of ANY guys that ONLY spend time hunting giant bass ? Not guys that have caught a few big bass , guys that spend all day/week /month/ year targeting giant bass ? Probably zero .
Those SoCal guys only fish for giant bass , the don't spend time tossing senko's in weeds or throwing a KVD 1.5 for 2 lbers . Dottie was caught by a group of different guys from boats that cost less than $5K. As a group , they actually talked every day , " did you see her? where is she ? etc....
Secondly , Texas lakes are more affected by drought than Cali lakes and when Texas lakes suffer drought , the lake suffers severe oxygen loss . Severe oxygen creates large fish kills . Cali lakes are typically deeper and can sustain bass during most droughts . That Lake Biwa bass was practically trained , he would hand feed those big bass so they knew him and were much easier to catch .
Aside from really large catfish , Cali bass are the top of the food chain .
If people found a dead 20lber floating in Fork , I am certain the really big lakes like Toledo , Fork etc... have these giant bass , it's just people are having to much fun catching a nice bag of 2-5 lbers instead of soaking a giant crawdad in 40 feet in the perfect place at night on a full moon , night after night after night etc...

Joe pool

My point exactly oldbassguy and why I posted that if one gets caught it will probably be an accident by someone fishing for another species. Like the current state record it will be celebrated and acknowledged but considered an accident. Still we know they're out there. Could have been a 20 swimming right next to the 18.

Several guys that have posted on this thread fish pretty much for giants only and I know for a fact are extremely good at catching them. I would put them up against Cali anglers any day all day.
Its the lakes the people are fishing not the skill of the people fishing the lakes that is determining the ultimate size.

Those other points have some merit I think.

PK before major algae kill had some big fish. The lake record of 16.02 was caught in October and Dave Campbell said she would have gone 18+ in the spring and the lake was deep and cooler and fish could live longer there. 12.50 caught in August this summer. Without any more kills the lake will turn out some big fish.

The first time I fished Biwa, it was late November, about 40 degrees and pouring rain. It looked like Fork during a Big Bass Splash.

There isn't anything in the world that compares to it from a pressure standpoint and it kicks out several fish in the 15-17lb class every year.

lol...

Then why hasn't one been caught? Plenty of guys doing that exact same thing all day every day.

GIG'EM AGGIES's word is IF it happens.
Lots of reasons:
- Very few of them.
- Huge lakes Lots of Hiding Places
- Wrong Hole
- Wrong Depth
- Electronic and Motor Sounds
- Wrong Bait
- Lack of or Too Heavy of Equipment
- Big One Got Away.
- Wind and Weather Conditions
And the reasons go on...

From 1980 to 1993, fourteen of the world's top 25 lmb were caught. 56% in 12 years

Since the advent of the internet (1993 : 1993 to current day), only eight bass in the world top 25 have been caught. 32% in 23 years.

We need to start stocking our lakes with beer. We will start seeing MUCH bigger belly's on these bass.

I'll go ahead and let y'all in on a little secret, that's really not a secret. That's why I can tell you.

Mike Frazier at Camelot Bell built a new 40-45ac. lake just north of the dam of Camelot Bell 1. He stocked it with thousands and thousands of bream and fat head minnows. There are probably millions of bream in it now. A year later, he started putting the largest females (74, I think) that he an clients caught out of Bell 1, into the new lake. There are a half dozen or more guys on here that helped to stock that new lake with their catches. Mike and I personally put about a dozen BIG males in the lake, as well. These males all weighed between 5.5 and 7 pounds.

I fished the new lake this weekend and let me tell you...there are a bunch of 7 month old fish in the new lake that will absolutely blow your mind. I'm talking about fish weighing 2-3 pounds, already.

Now, if Mike does what he did with Bell 1 and adds to his forage base to include rainbow trout stockings in the winter (he's done so on bell 1 the past two years), then I think he could easily grow a 20+ within 10 years or less. This lake is much deeper than Bell 1 and has a ton more cover and structure.

Now I know many here are gonna call BS on 7 month old fish weighing this much, so go ahead and call me a liar. I know what I know and I've held these fish in my own two hands. They fight like a six pounder! I have some photos of these fish I'll try to add later. I think KenA and DrJL have some pics of them too so, if you do, post them up.

Not much actually. That difference could be made up in one meal for that fish.

I believe you. We stocked some farm ponds this spring with some fingerlings and finally fished it for the first time this past weekend and caught 15-20 bass between 1lb-14oz and 2lb-7oz. The ponds were wiped out of any fish the week before we stocked so these fingerlings grew +/-2 pounds in about 8 months without an established forage base already in the ponds.

Here's one of the Camelot Bell Fish Mike says came from the spring spawn. I was a bit skeptical at first, thinking maybe a fish or two and somehow got in the lake last season without him knowing. However, enough have been caught at this point that I'm thinking he might very well be correct and they are from this spring. If so, it's truly amazing what these fish can do under the right conditions.

On a side note, with the first lake Mike says it took him 5 years to grow the first DD. However this time, he's got arguably even better genetics and is much more educated on what it takes to grow big fish. Doug Hannon noted that he saw large fish gain as much as 5lbs in a single year. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris's estimate of 10 years was pretty darn close. Dottie was somewhere around 20 years of age if I recall correctly. Now of course, the bigger question is whether or not the summertime temperatures get too warm at Bell to allow for lifespans of that length? I guess we will all have to wait a few years to find out. Assuming one of the 15's he already put in there doesn't beat this young bunch to the punch!

That's why I said " if one gets caught it will probably be an accident " for all the reasons you said, but it could still happen. I won't give up hope but I don't lose any sleep over it either. I get more pleasure believing there's one out there than thinking there isn't and it's free. I think if one of the Elite anglers like Van Dam, Christie, Hackney, etc. would dedicate themselves for say 6 straight months using live bait on a lake like TB or Amistad we might find out if a 20+ is out there. Otherwise we wait for someone to get lucky.

That is amazing

I will reserve my opinion on the new lake until this Wednesday. I will be fishing both both lakes this week.

+1, the girth on that fish already is amazing.

Not much actually. That difference could be made up in one meal for that fish. [/quot

Yes , I was just referring to the rarity of fish -as they get bigger, the frequency exponentially decreases.
But sure if I caught an 18 with a 3lb meal I would weigh it before it burped it up for sure- it counts yes.

Yes that's a good looking fish right there - it's got the proportions for sure. That new lake-Wolfpack lake(Bell number2) is a jungle as well so it's gonna be an awesome challenge.

If your point is we spend more time on the internet browsing Facebook and TFF and less time fishing for 20+ Bass, then I concur...

Ha, ha. Just noticing a trend.

Other than the Lake Biwa, Japan bass; no world top 25lmb has been caught and reported in the last 10 years.

Correct, I do not think California has produced one much over 17lbs in the past 4-5 years that I am aware of. There was a 16 this spring, and a 17 3-4 years back. CB produced a 16 this year, so in that regard, Texas is holding it's own.

Theres a large mouth bass over 20lbs in Possum Kingdom!My dad and i were fishing for bass around midnight 4 years ago,come to a dock with lights on all four corners.I throw my crankbait 10 feet past the light on the deep side closest to me,Hook a good fish,its about a 3-4lb striper,so im playing the fish,taking more time than I normally would to boat the fish,watching it swim in the clear water,and out from the shadows comes this massive LMB,headed for the striper im reeling in!before i could get the word "DAD" out of my mouth,the bass inhaled the striper,did a 180,and headed back where she came from,in the process she broke 17lb big game,like there wasnt any 17lb big game!
Now my biggest bass came from PK,she was right under 13lbs,also 3 others over 10 at PK,and the one right at 13lbs,isnt close to the weight class of the bass that ate my striper!! Thank God my father was there!For two reasons!so there was a witness to this beast of a fish,and theres no one else id rather have in the boat to share this experience with!
Dad get your poles ready were going fishing tonight!

I just texted Al Gore...He texted back that the lack of 20 pounders is due to global warming.

In Northern California , the Department of Fish and Wildlife stopped stocking trout in every lake that was kicking out giant bass . This change started about 5-6 years ago , the trout fisherman were complaining that all the bass were eating the trout every time they stocked the lakes , add the never ending budget issues and no more trout.I don't know if the same is happening in SoCal , but expect it probably is . Also , with the recent droughts in California ( 4 years prior to this years past ElNino) I would think these SoCal lakes will have difficulty producing the same numbers of 20+ lbers in the future.
Secondly , how much does Camelot Bell cost for two guys to fish ? Although I live in Cali , my son lives in Frisco and I would like to see if it's feasible .

pm sent 1oldbassguy.

I was told an arm and a leg so I think I'll pass. I know a guy that's been down there 5-6 times and still got all of his. Sounds kinda fishy to me, lol.

index.php?/topic/35854-lake-chabot-19-lb-bass-caught/

http://swimbaitunderground.com/forums/index.php?/topic/35854-lake-chabot-19-lb-bass-caught/

Lake Chabot is a perfect example , it's one of the few California Lakes in an area located near silicon valley , called the East Bay . They still have the funds to stock trout and is in no way really known for bass fishing . It's a small lake where bass are mostly ignored and get to eat tons of trout . Another lake in that area is called Del Valle , in Livermore California . Del Valle is the local birthplace for really big swimbaits ----not for largemouth , but for stripers . They have been stocking trout in Chabot and Del valle for over 30 years ----it's like ringing a dinner bell for huge largemouth and stripers .

Are the rumors true about the BIG bass in Crystal Springs near Pacifica? Everytime we go by there I want to fish it so bad but I know its not open for fishing. It looks so fishy though. I read on some Cali forums that some guys have snuck in there at night and caught some big bass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Springs_Reservoir

I have a pond in my subdivision, about 1.5 acres with a fountain. It is chunk full of small bream and minnow.

I probably stocked 40 to 50 bass in it personally, I would say average size was 5 lbs. I would bring them from Ray Roberts. This has been about 5 years ago, I have not seen any monsters as of yet. We do have a pretty good population of catfish as well in the pond.

I think growing them that big is about trout and the enviroments. I just find it strange that California/Japan and put out monsters but Texas can't

I would seem that Camelot Bell should be producing a new state record and numerous 17,18,19,20+ pound bass in the near future. Or will it? I hope it does but it's certainly not a given that it's going to happen that way. I don't have a lot of insight as to exactly what goes on out there and have not fished it. It appears that numerous bass of 14 to 16 pounds have been caught over the last 3 or 4 years after achieving meteoric growth rates. I know there are stories of some supertankers that have been hooked and lost but 16 stands as the queen so far. Should a few fish have reached 17 or 18 by now? Probably, if they are continuing to grow at a decent rate.
We will see if the apparent 18 lb barrier that we have in Texas can be bumped by intensive management or is it possibly the climate and general environmental conditions that we have here ultimately the unbeatable factor?

CB is further proof of just how difficult it is to grow a bass over 16 pounds. For those that don't know, the original lake is now 18 years old. This the most intensively managed private body of water in the state of Texas to my knowledge. La Perla may be close but his lakes are still new and have not produced a legit 16 pound bass yet. Thinking you can stock Florida bass in a lake and wait ten years then start catching 15 pound bass is flawed thinking.

Mike built Camelot Bell with all the normal features for a trophy fishery then added some. There are no lakes above CB or below that can flood into the original lake that would introduce native bass into the lake. That would dilute the pure genetic strain of what he started with. Lots of humps, rows, points, brush, steel cable, and even an old 18 wheeler flatbed trailer. Then he added coppernose bream & shad. For one year he did not add any bass to the lake in order for the bluegill & shad to multiply. After he was sure the lake was chock full of bait, he added ONLY 250 bass fingerlings from Harrell Arms, a biologist that had been breeding Florida bass for many years.

Think about that for a second. If 50% of the bass he stocked originally were females, that is only 125 bass in a 50 acre lake. Pretty low population of predator to baitfish ratio. Every year he would remove the smaller bass. There are no crappie, no catfish, no rough fish at all to compete with the bass' forage base. About six years ago he started CULLING Seven pound bass. EVERY BASS of 7# & down were taken out. Some were sold, some were put into his brother's lake down the road.

Mike understands that the only way to grow bass of huge proportions is to keep the baitfish population high while keeping the predator population low. That way there are less fish taking slices of the pie. He has added tilapia during the summer for several years and last Feb added the first load of 6,000 rainbow trout. He also added two truck loads of Rio Grande prawn this summer for the first time ever.

I caught the first bass over 15 pounds on Jan 7, 2012. It was the lake record for about a month before Mike himself and Dr. JL broke it with larger fish. All of those fish were thrown back into the original lake until last Fall. Still the lake record is 16.5 pounds.

Mike spent last summer excavating CB2 that he now calls the "Wolfpack". It is about 90% of the size of the original CB lake and is much deeper. He once again stocked the lake with bluegill & shad. The original plan was that he would only stock DD's from the original lake into the new Wolfpack lake. I learned that Mike and Chris added a dozen large males last fall.

Since last October there have been 74 DD's from 10-16.5 pounds put into the new lake. I am proud to say that I have assisted in the addition of Ten of those in my five trips to CB this year so far. One of the 16's Mike caught in his castnet while at the bluegill feeder netting bluegill last November with his biologist. He was honest about the fish and told me he caught her in the cast net. That was one of the first bass that went into the new lake. Tommy Kilpatrick & Justin Furnace landed a 16.25 and a 15.5 respectively in March of this year and both went to the brood pond first to be spawned out then were put into the Wolfpack when they were done.

STILL WITH THIS HURCULEAN EFFORT TO GROW GIANT BASS, 16.5 POUNDS IS WHERE WE ARE. FURTHER PROOF THAT LEGIT 16+ POUND BASS DO NOT SIMPLY HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT.

So the Wolfpack lake is one year old now. A couple of guys have fished it recently but no DD's have been caught from her yet. I am hopeful that all changes tomorrow afternoon. I am blessed beyond belief to be able to fish this lake several times a year. This is by no means a boast about my ability or status. I am just telling what I know about the best trophy bass fishery in the state at this time. IMHO of course.

Good questions that are regularly debated. I've fished Bell far fewer times than a lot of the other guys on this thread, but here's my two cents: Either she's not in there, or she's extremely difficult to catch. If I recall correctly Mike shocked up a fish in the 17lb class a few years back, so the thought is, she probably is in there (Bell 1). Does she live offshore in areas rarely fished? There are some nasty offshore structures at Bell. Hooking a fish is step one, but then getting her out is step two and it often doesn't happen as the big fish quickly dive for cover and get broke off. This happens all the time, even with folks using 65lb braid. She could also be super skittish, maybe very shy of trolling motors or artificial lures. Mike does not allow live bait to be used on the lake. Finally, she could be a nocturnal feeder. A few folks have tried night fishing Bell, but not many. Mike's new experiment with Bell 2 (Wolf Pack) will be super interesting to watch over the coming years. Mike will tell you it's all about genetics and forage. In essence, his removal of big bass this year from Bell 1 to transplant into the wolf pack lake dramatically shifted the ratio of lbs of forage to lbs bass. In theory this should benefit the remaining fish at Bell 1. Conversely, Bell 2 has had several years to grow bait with no predators in the water. Now it's got the benefit of great genetics, enormous stocks of bait, and the tailwind from a nutrient packed recently created body of water. When she peaks in 5-8 years from now it could be lights out...

Take your boat. Use your electronics. Those big gals are gonna be ganged up on the drops of that winding, deep creek! I had no electronics with which to fish last Saturday.

And I think it will. Mike has learned a ton through the trial and error of the past 18 years. He's got it down pat now. I can't help but believe these babies in the new lake will have the benefit of Mike's vast knowledge from the get-go, which is going to cause them to peak at higher weights than the original 250 that were stocked into Camelot Bell. Will be very fun to watch.

Yup!!!

In my post above I forgot to mention that Dr. JL ONLY landed TWO over 14 from CB this year so far!!!

Sorry Doc!

I'll just stick my pole in the water to see how deep it is....

It does show how hard it is to produce even a 15-16lber. That's what I mean by the exponential increase in rareness of fish as they get bigger. I feel blessed to have fished Bell and learn from Mike Frazier. I'm excited about the future there and on Wolfpack. I have fished Bell in a number of unorthodox ways that target only the biggest fish even in that lake with some success and many failures as well!! Or at least I think I'm targeting them/ who knows I may be screwing it up- lol!!

Now that we have that straight.-lol!

That lake was off the hook this year.
Ken and friends had a 5 fish 58lb day (those pics are kinda sickening),then Justin Furnace had a 60lb day including that 15.5- he can tell you but the lake just opened up for him that day.
Other guys got pbs, and the gentleman (forgot name sorry) got that 16 for the lake record.
Frazier knows what he is doing and that man is FOCUSED and DEDICATED to reaching lofty goals.

Few things tougher than using electronics on Bell. It's like giving a kid an hour in a candy store and telling him to search for a specific piece of candy for half of that. Very tough not to start casting knowing the next cast could be the one. Godspeed Ken. I made it about 10 minutes one time of continuous graphing before I gave in.

Our five went 56.5 Doc but I think Justin's best five went close to 70.

Besides his 15.5 he had two 12's and I think 8-10 more over Ten Pounds in between dodging lightning bolts and torrential rain that day. That day may never be duplicated on CB1.

Yeah that's true Ken, what a day. I think that Justin might get the lake or State record. He's young and hard core and a really good big bass fisherman.

I think that special breeding and stocking is what is keeping the chances for a truly big bass from being a reality. I think that the DNA in lakes is starting to get diluted with aggressive feeding bass that physically cannot reach the 17,18,and up size.

A really big....giant.....bass is a freak of nature, and the natural freaks are getting washed out through years of special breeding and stocking/diluting.

The odds of a natural, freak, over eating bass is less each year with cookie cutter 13-15lb max genetically manipulated bass eating everything in sight.

Just because two 7' people have a kid doesn't mean the kid will be 7' or taller. Just because you breed the genetics wont guarantee it will happen. Those 16 & 17lb fish in CB will probably top out over 20 but they wont sustain it year round. The window to get one will be small I think but will be done with these specialty lakes like Bell at some point. Then again.

If anything, this has been a great thread to read! Lots of good thoughts on here.

I know for a while they were stocking Comanche trail lake in big spring with trout. I've seen some giants come out of there that were very fat. I've heard one has come out of there that was close to 16. Biggest I've personally seen was 12. This is a fun topic to read about.

Nope, not going to happen. Fork had the best chance for a 20 lb. bass back during its prime.

Agreed. Even at CB I think it will only be a VERY few super agressivie fish that have a shot at making 20 pounds. I don't think a 20 pound bass is as common as a 7' tall man. Eight foot tall man maybe.

Texas doesn't need to be mentioned when talking large bass, they can't hold a torch to California.

15-25 years ago, that would be the case. I don't think Cali's cranking them out like they used to. But yes, they dominate the list of biggest bass EVER landed.

http://sdfish.com/top-lists/worlds-25-biggest-largemouth-bass/

I know a small clear spring fed east tx Lake that stocks trout in the winter. You can bet I'll be there. It's already produced some nice ones.had about a ten come off at the boat. My goal is share lunker. Wish me luck

Have any of ya'll fished Heartland 10-10 Ranch? Talking to Craig while fishing out there before they have shocked up some 16lb fish! My sister caught a 11lb 12oz bass out there last year day before Thanksgiving. They def seem to manage their lakes(4 of em) very well. Maybe not to the extent of what Camelot Bell does but I would say close. Just curious as we only seem to be comparing 1 Texas private lake.

Not sure if anyone has seen this recent catch. For sure there won't be any 20lbers caught in my home state.

http://www.icontact-archive.com/wk-fhLpOLhmAcfJtI-6CLR77zqbyB3Kk?w=2

Plenty of 20 lb'ers in Cali. Maybe a few in TX. Maybe!

http://www.scout.com/outdoors/wired2fish/story/1724117-19-pound-bass-caught-in-california

This just happened...

Like this one... lol. You better come with no less than 90lb braid...

Yes sir. I have fished all the lakes at Heartland 10-10. Nice folks and a beautiful place. They have grown some big fish out there as well. Check out Private Water Fishing and ask Steve about it!