Texas Fishing Forum

Berkeley Rule Interpretation

Posted By: Weo

Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:32 PM

OK guys, this may be a dumb question but here goes: In the rules concerning life jackets. What is your interpretation of the "the combustion engine is in Operation" mean. Each contestant is required to wear a fastened (fully zipped and/or all clips fastened), U.S. Coast Guard approved, personal flotation device anytime the combustion engine is in operation during official tournament hours. Does this mean before you start your engine or when the engine is put in gear?
Posted By: Ken A.

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:37 PM

It is a little vague. I would think as long at it is not in gear you are okay. They just do not want you moving with the big motor with no PFD on.

This is what I do. Keep your PFD in the driver's seat with the kill switch attached to it. As soon as you sit down in the driver's seat put on the jacket and zip it. Have your partner(s) do the same as soon as you do.

Remember if you win any hour of the event you will be given a polygraph. You just need to be able to say truthfully that you did not knowingly violate any rules of the event.
Posted By: McKinneyMike

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:37 PM

In my mind that would mean if the outboard is running.
Posted By: K.D.

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:42 PM

If they put anytime engine is running some guy argues he wasn't running he was idling. laugh

In operation means engine is started. Secure all pfd's before hitting ignition switch. Look to make sure your partner is secured before you start the engine
Posted By: lamoon78

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken A.
It is a little vague. I would think as long at it is not in gear you are okay. They just do not want you moving with the big motor with no PFD on.

This is what I do. Keep your PFD in the driver's seat with the kill switch attached to it. As soon as you sit down in the driver's seat put on the jacket and zip it. Have your partner(s) do the same as soon as you do.

Remember if you win any hour of the event you will be given a polygraph. You just need to be able to say truthfully that you did not knowingly violate any rules of the event.
This is what I do.
Posted By: Ken A.

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:50 PM

Saw a guy in a McDonalds event years ago get DQ'ed with a fish that would've won him $8,000...

He came into the bank at LFM and beached his boat. Took off his PFD then grabbed a weigh in bag from one of the helpers. Got back into his boat and got his fish out of the livewell. As he was doing it his boat drifted off the bank. He reached over and cranked the big motor and put it in gear & idled back to the bank.

He was not allowed to weigh his fish due to breaking the rule of not having his PFD on & zipped when his outboard was in gear. Bob Sealy talked about it on stage and he felt badly for having to DQ the guy but he stated in a tournament the size of his, you could not make any exceptions.
Posted By: epicoutdoors

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:53 PM

Very simple. PFD on and zipped up or buckled and kill switch attached before you hit the key. thumb
Posted By: Mike_Soriano™

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:53 PM

Why risk it, to me it's such a small difference, why would you need to have the jacket off to sit in neutral anyways(kens specific explanation aside lol). Just treat the rule the same for all tournaments, zip it up before cranking the motor.
Posted By: tommyc

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike_Soriano™
Why risk it, to me it's such a small difference, why would you need to have the jacket off to sit in neutral anyways? Just treat the rule the same for all tournaments, zip it up before cranking the motor.


The Berkley rule is vague, so I will zip it before cranking.
I do this unless the rules specifically state "while the motor is in gear", which a few of the tournaments do.
Posted By: fouzman

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 01:20 PM

Combustion engines do not operate when they're not started. Once started, they're operating whether in gear or not. Why take a chance? Just zip and buckle before you turn they key, then there will be NO room for interpretation and no question in your mind if you have to take a polygraph.
Posted By: Weo

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 01:42 PM

thanks fellows. I will zip before I start the engine.
Posted By: WAWI

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By: fouzman
Combustion engines do not operate when they're not started. Once started, they're operating whether in gear or not. Why take a chance? Just zip and buckle before you turn they key, then there will be NO room for interpretation and no question in your mind if you have to take a polygraph.


Exactly, I don't even see it as vague.
Posted By: bccougar

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 01:45 PM

Don't start without being zipped and clipped. not worth getting protested on a technicality.
Posted By: 9094

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 01:45 PM

When you start the motor it is operating whether in gear or not.
That is what we was explained to us in a BASS open a few years ago when I fished one.
Posted By: Cast

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 01:54 PM

I've never had a self inflating PFD but they look to be very wearable. Just leave it on?
Posted By: Kay Dyson

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Cast
I've never had a self inflating PFD but they look to be very wearable. Just leave it on?

I hate to zip&clip, in summer they're hot, the SI PFD is the way to go imo. Just 1 clip and you can be underway. thumb
Posted By: Ken A.

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Cast
I've never had a self inflating PFD but they look to be very wearable. Just leave it on?


Yes. When the weather is cool you forget you are wearing it.
Posted By: Bass Buster1

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 02:59 PM

I do the zip and clip before start, tourney or not, by myself or with someone just so it is habit. It is like a seat belt, just a good habit to have in 99.99% of situations.
Posted By: forkduc

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 06:51 PM

This
Posted By: Mike_Soriano™

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 06:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Bass Buster1
I do the zip and clip before start, tourney or not, by myself or with someone just so it is habit. It is like a seat belt, just a good habit to have in 99.99% of situations.


Me too. Makes the life vest thing a non issue for me. Its second nature.
Posted By: PowPowOl'Son

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 07:06 PM

A polygraph is based on how you interpret the rules. You're only going to fail a polygraph if you think you broke a rule. I personally will put on my PFD and crank the motor. I let it warm up for 3-4 seconds while I'm zipping/clipping my PFD. There's no danger in anything happening while my engine is simply cranked. It is "operating" the minute I put it in gear.

So if I ever take a polygraph I will do fine because in my mind I am 100% legal. I will easily pass.
Posted By: fouzman

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 07:25 PM

Here are the rules for B.A.S.S.
http://www.bassmaster.com/sites/default/...es_pro_am_1.pdf

5.SAFETY:
(i) Safe boat conduct must be observed at all times by competitors. During the
official practice and competition, each competitor must wear a Coast Guardapproved
chest-type life preserver anytime the combustion engine is in
operation. This preserver must be strapped, snapped or zippered securely, and
maintained in that condition until the combustion engine is shut off.


Not saying Berkeley's rules are the same but, read what I highlighted in red. Notice that it states until the combustion engine is shut off. Not taken out of gear. Common sense would tell me if the jacket must remain secured until the engine is shut off it must be secure before the engine is started, too. Interpret however you choose.

Now here is Berkeley's same rule.
Safety: Safe boating must be observed at all times. Each contestant is required to wear a fastened (fully zipped and/or all clips fastened), U.S. Coast Guard approved, personal flotation device anytime the combustion engine is in operation during official tournament hours. All boats must be equipped with an emergency ignition shut-off device, which must be securely attached to the driver's body any time the combustion engine is in operation. The driver must be seated in the driver's seat anytime the combustion engine is engaged in gear.

Notice it states the jacket must be fully fastened while the combustion engine is in operation. It goes further to state that the driver must be seated before the combustion engine is in gear. That right there tells me that Basschamps intend for your life jacket to be strapped on before you start the engine.
Posted By: Bobby Milam

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: PowPowOl'Son
A polygraph is based on how you interpret the rules. You're only going to fail a polygraph if you think you broke a rule. I personally will put on my PFD and crank the motor. I let it warm up for 3-4 seconds while I'm zipping/clipping my PFD. There's no danger in anything happening while my engine is simply cranked. It is "operating" the minute I put it in gear.

So if I ever take a polygraph I will do fine because in my mind I am 100% legal. I will easily pass.


Until now, it crosses your mind about this thread and you think about it for just a second and boom the needle bounces and you lost everything
Posted By: Troyz

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 09:00 PM

Originally Posted By: fouzman
Here are the rules for B.A.S.S.
http://www.bassmaster.com/sites/default/...es_pro_am_1.pdf



Not saying Berkeley's rules are the same but, read what I highlighted in red. Notice that it states until the combustion engine is shut off. Not taken out of gear. Common sense would tell me if the jacket must remain secured until the engine is shut off it must be secure before the engine is started, too. Interpret however you choose.



How dare you try to interject common sense into a Fishing Forum discussion.......
Posted By: TxFisherman03

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 09:09 PM

Engine ON, Life vest ON. In operation to me means anytime the engine is in the on position. It has to be operating in order to be idling.
Posted By: PowPowOl'Son

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/03/16 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobby Milam
Originally Posted By: PowPowOl'Son
A polygraph is based on how you interpret the rules. You're only going to fail a polygraph if you think you broke a rule. I personally will put on my PFD and crank the motor. I let it warm up for 3-4 seconds while I'm zipping/clipping my PFD. There's no danger in anything happening while my engine is simply cranked. It is "operating" the minute I put it in gear.

So if I ever take a polygraph I will do fine because in my mind I am 100% legal. I will easily pass.


Until now, it crosses your mind about this thread and you think about it for just a second and boom the needle bounces and you lost everything


LOL...You're right!!!
Posted By: 9094

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 01:12 AM

Originally Posted By: PowPowOl'Son
A polygraph is based on how you interpret the rules. You're only going to fail a polygraph if you think you broke a rule. I personally will put on my PFD and crank the motor. I let it warm up for 3-4 seconds while I'm zipping/clipping my PFD. There's no danger in anything happening while my engine is simply cranked. It is "operating" the minute I put it in gear.

So if I ever take a polygraph I will do fine because in my mind I am 100% legal. I will easily pass.


Until someone reports you to the TD or protest you for it.
I would imagine you could give your above explanation once but after that you know it is not correct so either you pass by being a good liar or you fail.
Posted By: Battson34

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 01:16 AM

Better safe than sorry, zip it then crank it.
Posted By: PowPowOl'Son

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 02:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Battson34
Better safe than sorry, zip it then crank it.


It would take a true jacka$$ to protest a guy for cranking his engine 3-4 seconds before zipping up his PFD.
Posted By: Curtbass

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 02:41 AM

Don't think there aren't any of THOSE out there fishing the tournament
Posted By: Ken A.

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 11:03 AM

Before you take a polygraph at a BC sponsored event they will always ask you if there is anything you want to divulge before they start the test. If you did happen to start your motor before you put on your PFD just tell him then.

During the test, he will ask you if there is anything, other than what you have already mentioned prior to the test that you have been untruthful about.

For those that have never taken one, they get you hooked up to the machine then go through a list of questions that are all obviously true to calibrate their machine. Those questions include things like:

Is your name Jimmy Smith?
Do you live at 1224 Topwater Street in McAlester, OK?
Were you born in September?
Do you own a Skeeter boat?


Then they start into the questions on the exam and ask things like:

Did you use only Berkley baits to catch your fish today?
Did you catch all your fish from Lake Fork?
Did you alter the length or weight of the fish you caught today?
Did you use artificial lures today?
Did you accept any fish form any other person today that you did not catch?
Were you under the influence of any controlled substance during the tournament today?
"Other than the time you told me about not putting on your PFD before starting the outboard" did you knowingly violate any rules of the tournament today?

There are a couple more but that's all I can think of at the moment. They will ask you EVERY question before you are hooked up so you will know what is coming. They do not try to trick you or ask you any surprise questions while you are taking the exam.

I've taken quite a few of these for tournaments and employment purposes. Never failed once.
Posted By: RedRanger

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By: PowPowOl'Son
Originally Posted By: Battson34
Better safe than sorry, zip it then crank it.


It would take a true jacka$$ to protest a guy for cranking his engine 3-4 seconds before zipping up his PFD.


Few years ago I fished Poormans and there was one guy who always was going in and crying about something about me, Always one in a crowd even in a little club
Posted By: RedRanger

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken A.
Before you take a polygraph at a BC sponsored event they will always ask you if there is anything you want to divulge before they start the test. If you did happen to start your motor before you put on your PFD just tell him then.

During the test, he will ask you if there is anything, other than what you have already mentioned prior to the test that you have been untruthful about.

For those that have never taken one, they get you hooked up to the machine then go through a list of questions that are all obviously true to calibrate their machine. Those questions include things like:

Is your name Jimmy Smith?
Do you live at 1224 Topwater Street in McAlester, OK?
Were you born in September?
Do you own a Skeeter boat?


Then they start into the questions on the exam and ask things like:

Did you use only Berkley baits to catch your fish today?
Did you catch all your fish from Lake Fork?
Did you alter the length or weight of the fish you caught today?
Did you use artificial lures today?
Did you accept any fish form any other person today that you did not catch?
Were you under the influence of any controlled substance during the tournament today?
"Other than the time you told me about not putting on your PFD before starting the outboard" did you knowingly violate any rules of the tournament today?

There are a couple more but that's all I can think of at the moment. They will ask you EVERY question before you are hooked up so you will know what is coming. They do not try to trick you or ask you any surprise questions while you are taking the exam.

I've taken quite a few of these for tournaments and employment purposes. Never failed once.


I remember my wife having to take one to get a job quite a few years ago, she lied about her age. Never caught here, I have never believed in them after that.
Posted By: WAWI

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: PowPowOl'Son
Originally Posted By: Battson34
Better safe than sorry, zip it then crank it.


It would take a true jacka$$ to protest a guy for cranking his engine 3-4 seconds before zipping up his PFD.


Few years ago I fished Poormans and there was one guy who always was going in and crying about something about me, Always one in a crowd even in a little club


Always some butt hurt goof ball crying about something. He didn't button his jacket, boohoo booohooo, he cut me off, boohooo, he ran into a no wake zone boohooo. It's shameful the whining.
Posted By: ssmith

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 01:49 PM

this is a simple rule it says life jacket on when gas motor is running if have trouble following a rule this simple some will have trouble following other rules.
Posted By: TxFisherman03

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 03:07 PM

Its hard to understand why some are defending the breaking of a simple(unnecessary) rule. A rule is a rule. No matter how big or small it is, its there to try and make the field about as equal as possible. Personally I think it should be when the boat is on pad because many times fishing in the wind on fork its easier to start and idle and then button, click, and zip.
Posted By: Texascajun69

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/04/16 08:36 PM

Years ago I was fishing the South 40 Shootout on Lake Waco. Takeoff was by number. I ran to my first spot and shutdown about at the edge of the tree line about 40 yds from where my son and I was going to fish. A boat came blowing by me (about 10ft away) still on the pad and got in front of us and started to idle. The passenger removed his life jacket and stood up before the operator shutoff the engine. Although I was really ticked off, I merely pointed out to the boat operator his passenger removed his life jacket too early. I told them I would not turn them in, but wanted for him to know. My son said what good does that do and I said, "It ensures they will fail the polygraph". The operator didn't see it but when I pointed it out he now knew.

Like others have said- All life jackets on and zipped before ignition on and stay that way until ignition off. It should not only be for tournaments but ALL THE TIME>
Posted By: Ken A.

Re: Berkeley Rule Interpretation - 10/05/16 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: Ken A.
Before you take a polygraph at a BC sponsored event they will always ask you if there is anything you want to divulge before they start the test. If you did happen to start your motor before you put on your PFD just tell him then.

During the test, he will ask you if there is anything, other than what you have already mentioned prior to the test that you have been untruthful about.

For those that have never taken one, they get you hooked up to the machine then go through a list of questions that are all obviously true to calibrate their machine. Those questions include things like:

Is your name Jimmy Smith?
Do you live at 1224 Topwater Street in McAlester, OK?
Were you born in September?
Do you own a Skeeter boat?


Then they start into the questions on the exam and ask things like:

Did you use only Berkley baits to catch your fish today?
Did you catch all your fish from Lake Fork?
Did you alter the length or weight of the fish you caught today?
Did you use artificial lures today?
Did you accept any fish form any other person today that you did not catch?
Were you under the influence of any controlled substance during the tournament today?
"Other than the time you told me about not putting on your PFD before starting the outboard" did you knowingly violate any rules of the tournament today?

There are a couple more but that's all I can think of at the moment. They will ask you EVERY question before you are hooked up so you will know what is coming. They do not try to trick you or ask you any surprise questions while you are taking the exam.

I've taken quite a few of these for tournaments and employment purposes. Never failed once.


I remember my wife having to take one to get a job quite a few years ago, she lied about her age. Never caught here, I have never believed in them after that.


The results are subject to the interpretation of the person giving the exam. I suppose folks can lie and still pass. Look at Robbie Rose.

Still, I believe they are necessary to keep the honest guys honest. Interpret the rule on PFD's however you want. The TD is really not worried about the guy that started his motor then zipped his PFD afterward. He has bigger fish to fry, so to speak. wink
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