"A Stick" vs "Better Than Average"

what makes the difference ?
what separates the really good fisherman from the just OK fisherman ?
Your opinion ...... obviously no answer is wrong.

Confidence and knowing when to adjust to the conditions.

Success. How do you adapt to conditions and to what success you have.

Confidence and Success are the end results of adapting to the conditions.
How does one know when to do what ?
Why does my brother-in-law out fish me from the back of my boat ? Same conditions, same water, same time in the same place ????

Reading water conditions, breaking down the water colum, and finding multiple patterns throughout the lake.
The Elites have 2-3 days of prefishing to break down lakes that are massive. It's really impressive to watch.

The person that can reach that 10% of water that others can't. Dropping a jig in silently rather than making a big splash. Realizing that the morning topwater bite isn't happening this morning and moving on instead of trying to force it to happen. It's so many little things but they add up to more and bigger keepers on a consistent basis.

More high percentage cast/flips. Not sitting in spots too long. Putting lure in spots hard for avg anglers to do. Making 10x as many cast in a day

Good fishermen stay ahead of the conditions and are able to process subtle data quicker from past experiences. This can only come from more time on the water and the willingness to not be hardheaded and trying to force a bite. Good fishermen learn more from a bad fishing trip than a good fishing trip.

Time on the water..

Winner Winner Bass Dinner.

Don't think this one holds water. Never Have, Never will.
I have spent much much more time on the water than my Brother-in-Law.
Just the phrase "time on the water" doesn't mean that what you learn or do during that time is correct, or helps you become a better fisherman.

If you add the "additional" statements that SFAJacks44 stated along with "time on the water" then yes it is applicable.

I think you have to process the data you get, while on the water, to better develop your skills.
Fishing is a "skill", much like any other sport or activity. Just because you go play golf 3 times a week doesn't mean you will become a scratch golfer.
Just because I fish 3 times a week for 6 hours a day doesn't mean I can go fish on a professional circuit

Time on water.

I dont buy that. If a man person spends the time on the water he will figure it out. To become a stick you have to be able to understand the movements of fish. You would first read about the process. Than go try. It is truly a trail and error sport. Once you hone your skills you will be able to do more. I know a guy that i used to take on guide trips. He never had a boat. But spent countless days on the water with me on guide trips. He than bought a boat. About two years later after learning all he could from other people he went pro/elites . He did okay for two years but the circuit eats the common man alive.He actually won one.

You have to under stand time on the water. First of all you must be a very good fisherman to shine above the rest.

Time means work and knowledge.
- Fish over 60 shallow water spots just to get one great spot for the daylight hour.
- It takes 3 of these to be a top water stick; so go fish another 120 spots.
- Fish 60 mid depth spots at 8 to 15 ft. just to get one great spot.
- It takes 3 of these to be a stick; so go fish 120 more spots.
- Fish 60 deep water spots just to get one great spot.
- It takes 3 of these to be a stick; so go fish another 120 spots.

Now you have spent time on the water; about a year. You have the 9 best spots on the lake though and will be considered a stick in my book.

What do you mean,,,, "I don't buy THAT". What exactly is "THAT" ?

if you mean "Time on the water will make you better" ....... I am living proof it does not.
I have been fishing since the early 1980s, read every book there is about bass fishing, watched (have) every video, know how to read a topo map, know how to read a graph,,,, heck I even can read an in-dash flasher and tell you were the bottom is and if there is structure or fish there. I have rolls and rolls of graph paper with pencil pictures drawn on them from the original Lowrance Stylus graph.
I have all the tools needed & know how to fish them. BUT still get out fished......by my brother-in-law, my sons and others I take fishing.
It might be patience, maybe need to s-l-o-w down, it might be odor from my skin, but I know it is NOT time on the water.

Time on the water.

Yup...definitely time on the water.

Time on the water also means only one lake at a time until you have completed the above listed work to acquire the 3 best shallow water spots, the best 3 mid range spots and the best 3 deep water spots.

No offense but maybe you're just hard headed. If every time you go you do the same thing you did before, then you probably aren't going to advance like you should be. I have taken many folks fishing over the years that have been avid anglers. Every single time I take someone fishing, they tell me they learned something they did not know.

Maybe you do need to slow down. I doubt its your skin odor.

If you are consistently getting out fished by someone in your boat, there is a good reason. You are not being observant of what they are doing to catch the fish. If you are in the same boat with someone and throwing the same bait on the same line, it's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

If you have never fished with someone that is "A Stick" make a strong effort to do so. Or at least fish with "A Stick" that is particularly good with a specific technique" but is average at other techniques or types of fisheries.

The best case example is on a body of water the "Stick" does not fish often. Go fish with him on either a pre-practice day, official practice day or on a tournament day.

Your choice of which "Stick" to go with needs to be thought out also. Do you want to fish with a 5-7 bite a day guy that focuses more on winning or do you want the "Stick" that is regarded as consistent.

By the time you have spent a day in the boat with 3 to 5 "Sticks" you should have a pretty good idea of your weaknesses and/or their strengths that separates them from other above average anglers.

The strengths of the top "Sticks" or what separates them from the above average angler are not easily written in a TFF post nor in a BASS/FLW article/interview. If it was, then interviewers/anglers would have stopped asking this question many years ago. With that said it is very easy to see the difference in person on the water. Your ability to recognize, assess and understand these differences will also improve as your personal ability improves.

You will get better so much faster by seeing it and then go get you some (lots) TOTW.

PS - I define a "Stick" as a great angler that can catch tournament winning fish on any fishery as opposed to some posts above about finding some good shallow or deep spots.

PS 2 - fish with very good anglers as often as you can and remember to pay it forward

No offense taken and very good points. AND I know it is the "Indian". I just can't figure out WHAT it is I need to do/change.
That's why I am asking the question. TRYING to get a better understanding.

This is so true. I considered myself a pretty good jig fisherman - until I booked Richard McCarty several years ago. I didn't know Jack Spit!

GREAT Advice !!!

I understand what you mean about it not being TOW for some. I fished an ultra private lake of about 100 acres a couple years ago with an older gentleman that fishes it 3 times a week every week. He has a lot of TOW.

As we drove to the lake he told me the fishing had been slow and to not expect much more than 6-10 fish before noon. We were supposed to meet some of his friends in town at noon for BBQ.

We hit the lake early and he was running the troll motor on a small stick steering boat. He went to the upper end of the lake where there were thick weedbeds and we threw a YM topwater & buzzbait for about an hour. The wind was clam. It was late May. We caught 4 fish.

When the sun got up we went to the "deep end" near the dam and started fishing marked brush piles. The water was 10-12' deep. He threw one bait - a Texas rigged worm. After two hours and one fish, I asked him if he ever threw a jig or big crankbait. His answer was no, that he had confidence in a worm so that what he stuck with.

Here we were at 9:30 in the morning on one of the most exclusive lakes in Northeast TX with 5 fish. I started digging through my duffle bag and found a package of 4" Storm Wildeye Shad colored swimbaits. I tied one on and threw it out and let it sink to the bottom. I started reeling it back and a four pounder slams it. As I get the fish up beside the boat there is a huge school of 4-5 pounders with it!!

I gave him one of the swim baits and we commenced to wailing on them. At 12:45 we loaded the boat to go meet some folks for lunch in Athens. The gentleman I fished with kept a fish counter on his belt and every time we would land a fish he would hit it. At 12:45 we had 107 fish with the majority of them in the 4-5 pound class.

The fish were obviously not relating to the brush piles. They were roaming a big flat in open water chasing shad. Now this was an extreme case but there is a point. If you do the same thing every time you go you may be really limiting yourself.

Flat bill and a Jersey

A "stick" is someone who can catch competing level fish wherever they go! That's all it is! And some do it 1000 different ways'

Going for 5-7 bites a day doesn't make you a stick, look at prowoznik he usually has 5 fairy wands on his deck and catch as many fish as possible in 8 hours and see what's he's best 5 is cuz he knows he can catch them and usually competes

Fish techniques out of your comfort zone doesn't make you a stick. John cox doesn't use transducers
And hackney catches them majority the time fishing this strength.

Time on the water doesn't make you a stick, it helps yes but there's a lot of new young elite guys beating the old guys it's about adaption, confidence, and fishing in the moment!

At the end of the day people can say this make you a stick and that doesn't and tow is what's it's about, it's all about instinct and fishing the moment if you don't have that idc if you fish 24/7 365 you will
Just be mediocre

Who peed in your Cheerios? So angry! Lol
I will say this, I only know two people that I think could fish for a living. Both spend an insane amount of time on the water and both figure them out faster than anyone I know. I think most anglers have their mind made up on what they are going to do before they launch the boat. I'm guilty of this to some extent.

i agree! 100% has nothing to do with TOW it helps, but its adapting, knowledge, and confidence!!!
i just started fishing in tourneys and plenty of times I've made money and even beat guys on new lakes, to me! I'm no badass but knowledge is the best thing there is, and adapting to your knowledge and using it when it needs to be used

simple being around the fish that bite and not being around the fish that bite...

A good angler with good electronics and maps and the ability to decipher both well

This is the best post I have seen in TFF in awhile. What makes a "Stick" Well just two days ago I saw the post "Frozen" so if you are looking for a 9 pounder look no further than being in the right place at the right time with the right guide!

However, those of us that have fished coast to coast I think you will find that being a really good "Stick" (meaning Elites or FLW ) you must have total control of your instincts, an above average athletic capability, and as Don Harper stated ( an idea of where to catch fish from time on the water).

So, a "Stick" knows how to catch fish from Erie down to Seminole, from Cayuga to the Delta, tides, floods, or through a Zombie Apocalypse, or green or brown.

A "Stick" will make 5 casts to your 1 and also in place you would never cast. They will also do it left or right handed.

Those of you that have never had the pleasure of being in a boat with a "Stick" it will make you appreciate the difference between high school and NFL football.

These guys are good. And yes we can all get a jersey and a wrapped boat but very few will ever be a "stick" that I my opinion. The rest of you can vote for Hillary!

Some people have it - some don't. No different than any other endeavor in life. Time spent doing anything can make one better, sometimes even good, but some people are just wired for certain things. They will excel because of their God given talent, intellect, accumulated knowledge, physical ability, etc. That's why you get the KVD's, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan's, of this world. I call them "Dynamic Individuals". Sorry, but not ALL men are created equal.

Don't know who came up with the word " stick " as a homonym for a good angler but I don't see the relevance. A stick is a thin piece of wood. If you want to complement or acknowledge someone as a better than average angler I would refer to him as a " Van Dam ". He exceeds all the adjectives I've seen in this post. I'm not accomplished enough to change the line on one of Van Dam's reels but I doubt anyone has enjoyed fishing as much as I have. In that regard I am a an awesome angler.

And ya gotta know how to "go Ike" when you catch a two pounder...

A stick is being able to lead day one and two of the FWC without a transducer on ur boat!

A stick doesn't talk a bunch of s*%# to other anglers he just whacks em and lets the money speak for itself. Average joes talk all kinds of sh$! to the other guys. That's the way it seems to me.

Information, experience, and application...

1 JOHN COX DEBARY, FL 16 - 11 (5) 15 - 10 (5) 32 - 5 (10)

Leading the FW Cup right now, he doesn't have a transducer on his boat. Just Saying.

A strong desire for success.
Perseverance for learning and understanding the process of successful fishing.
A great aptitude to apply that time on the water, learning and understanding into skillfully locating productive scenarios while quickly eliminating that which is not productive.

Read the book Outliers. It will explain. Combination of "Time on Water" and pure natural ability. I coached high school and college basket ball for 13 years and what I saw in the very best pertains to fishing. Can't remember the exact number but it takes something like 10,000 hours before you become proficient at something. So take that plus natural ability but i think you have to have both.

Ex: I coached kids that were extremely talented but didn't put in the work so they never reached their potential. Had kids with no talent that put in the hours and became good but not great, then those rare few that did both and were truly great.


I'm screwed, I have no natural ability and I only get 2-4 days a month on the water.

They say eliminating water is key, he eliminates about 98% of the lake before he launches.

I find it very interesting how we give athletes nick names or titles. Jordan was "air Jordan", Earvin Johnson
was Magic. Together they had 11 championship rings. Bill Russell also had 11 but for what ever reason no nick name. Since everyone on this forum thinks "stick" is synonymous with the greatest shouldn't we give that nick name to some deserving angler like maybe Kevin Van Dam ? Based on the criteria I'm seeing on here he kinda fit the bill and he's won over 6 million dollars. I haven't seen anyone on this forum claim that title even though they know what it takes, just modesty I suppose.

When i was a kid we would all be fishing on my Grandmothers place and there was always a few that caught a lot more than others, my great Aunt said that it was a God given talent. I see no reason to doubt her.

Pretty simple, You won't the see majority of the sticks on the tff posting....

This about sums it up.

A stick isn't married with kids..... There's the short version.

Useful time of the water. Sticks practice every time they fish regardless weather it's for fun or pre fishing they are always working. Just cause u spend allot of time fishing doesn't mean much if you are not working while fishing.

Yep.

Well, if that's the case I'm at least a piece of wood, lol.

Predictably consistent results.

And to clarify.... I believe all sticks have a massive amount of TOW but not everyone with a lot of TOW is a stick.

"Stick" has best (most $) electronics
"Better Than Average" is on a budget. period!

Confidence. You need the belief in yourself to pick an area that you "know" holds fish and have the confidence to catch them, that confidence equals the patience to get it done.

My definition of a "stick" differs from some. A stick to me can catch them and win on more than one or two lakes he fished his entire life. They need to start doing more of the secret location type tournaments, that will separate the men from the boys.

I'm the opposite of a stick

This is more and more true every year. The direction social media has taken TFF and some other useful websites has made it where the majority of the "sticks" will not or can not contribute.

False. Unless I missed the sarcasm.

At least half of the Elite guys, that I know of, are married....with kids. The last few AOY guys are some of that half.

Very true statement right there.

Has anyone on here ever heard an Elite angler refer to themselves, or one of their competitors as a "stick ".
Just wondering where the term "stick" came from. First place I ever saw it was on here. I suppose it's a compliment I just don't see the relevance since a stick is a thin piece of wood. I'm thinking there are a few of the Elite's that if you called them "stick" to their face you might get throat punched. Greg Hackney and Rick Clunn come to mind.

I have on a couple of occasions in an interview. Not sure where the term came from but I think it is generally taken as a compliment. Kind of like calling someone a "monster" or a "beast" at the gym.

When I was a kid I was so skinny that some of the kids at school called me a Stick. I did not take it as a compliment then nor do I think they meant it to be one.

I need to get your stick bodied self on the boat sometime for a leetle feeshing sir

My wife called me a "monster" one time as she was leaving. I guess since she never came back it wasn't meant as a compliment. I've also been called a "beast" on the golf course but all 3 of my partners assured me it was a compliment. So I prefer "beast" over "monster". I would also prefer not to be called "stick" until Hackney or Clunn OK it. Not a reel good angler anyway since I seldom go anyway when it's 100 + degrees out there. I doubt my buddy Ken A. is out there either since he's posting on here. Probably watching women's beach volley ball on the Olympics knowing him.
Cute the way I spelled reel huh.

I don't buy that. Electronics may aid them but I bet they could do it without them. There is nothing that the pros use that the avg Joe needs to have to be as good except for a high fishing IQ and time.

Thanks Mr. Harper for digging this up, all the way back to 2002. And it was talking about Jay Yelas of all people. Where the heck is he now. Wonder if being called "stick" done him in.

Yelas has had one of the best competitive bass angler careers an angler could have ever hope for. He has done very well for himself. He is in a group of 50 tournament anglers or less that has come out ahead.

Here's a thought and it just came to me... I will define it with my old line of work... When I was a police officer for the last 15 years of my life, I didn't be one good at doing DWI's over night... It took getting made a fool of on the stand enough times until I learned how to do it properly... Doing research, asking the right questions, following enough cars, talking to the right veterans, getting in the right classes and making enough arrests. Basically it came down to seat time or time on the water at the right time.

Most drunks are not out at 2:00pm, however they are out at 2:00am. So be there when they are relates to fishing too. During the hottest part of the day, the fish are relaxing someplace. At 6:00am when it's cooler out, they are out looking to eat.

I wouldn't disagree on a good career but comparatively I wouldn't say he had a great career. Since 1997 he has never won a FLW event and he only has 5 Bass wins. He did win one Classic so props for that but saying he "had one of the best competitive bass angler careers an angler could ever hope for" would be a stretch.

I see you struggling to wrap your brain around the term "stick" Gig, as did I. It's sort of like a secret lingo that only good or "better than average" fishermen have come to know in talking about other fisherman. Rookies don't know it and it's not in the dictionary. It's very much like... "Ol' so and so.... He's good people." The first time I heard that I though they needed a grammar lesson. Person means one.... People means two. How can one guy be "people?" I surely don't know the answer but in a room of fishermen, I was the only one that seemed to notice any problem.

What I've come to realize is that there are some terms you just count yourself as privileged to be in the know. Knowing what a stick is just means you've hung around enough good fishermen that it's come up and you get a few cool points when your buddies have to ask you what it means. That and a nickel will get you absolutely squat.

Just roll with it like it makes all of the sense in the world. (That's what the rest of us are doing)

OK dude, I'm definitely in the minority here but it's Ok. I get admonished for calling Jerry Jones an idiot so "stick" ain't all that bad. Mr. Harper even went to the trouble of going all the way back to 2002 to find an article where someone was called a "stick" so it's been around awhile. I watch all the fishing shows on TV and if someone was called that I flat missed it. Anyhoo, I'm all in now and if I'm at BPS, Lake Fork Marina or at the launch ramp and hear someone call out "stick" I'm looking cause I never saw one in person. Hope I ain't disappointed like I was when I met Roland Martin.

The first time I ever heard anybody tell he knew a certain guy was a good "stick" , I almost laughed . This was a guy that spent tons of time fishing local tournaments , had a $65K boat and all the latest stuff . He also assumed because I had a $20K boat that I wasn't a serious fisherman and not a good "stick" .
I also had a guy tell me one time at the boat dock that he wasn't just fishing for "small" fish , that was easy , he was a tournament fisherman , he needed only the "big" bites .
the definition of a good stick ---
can catch bass in any lake , under any conditions , any time of the year against the best competition and produce typically winning weights --no excuses . If you can't do that , your just another bass fisherman .
tight lines ,
Robb

One catches more fish than the other consistently

I do not want us to get in trouble for turning a good conversation on what is a "Stick" and all that. BUT - you are nuts to think that the Jay did not have an exceptional career. This is where I think young guys such as yourself need to brush up on your history instead of just doing a quick internet search to get some data to argue about.

I am not comparing him to KVD, Brauer, Clunn and etc. but there have been thousands of BASS and FLW anglers throughout the years that would have jumped all over having the career Jay had.

Jay fished half his career when prize money sucked but still won $2.5 Million not including US Open winnings, Operation Bass winnings and money won here in Texas. He has:
BASS AOY 2003
FLW AOY 2002
FLW AOY 2007
BASS Classic Champion 2002
5 BASS Wins
16 BASS Classic Appearances
11 FLW Cup Appearances

Take from an Old Aggie - do not discount those FLW AOYs and Cup appearances in the 2000s as the FLW fields were tough.

I am sticking to my comment that Jay had a career that any competitive angler could have hoped for.

PS - I never liked Jay from either a fan or fellow competitor basis but he was awesome minus a tiny bit.....

Did you just call Gig "young?"

Maybe
Do I have my fellow Aggies mixed up?

Time on the water, confidence and the 1 intangible that only the top 1% have have....keen instinct.

No arguing here Neal, you got your opinion, I got mine. I said he had a good career you said exceptional. Jay is a good 'ol boy and was/is a credit to his profession. No harm, no foul.

74 years young Neal, I was casting for bass when most folks on here were still wearing 3 cornered underwear.

Gig Young, helluva actor wasn't he.

This is funny - sorry Gig - but Yelas still was a stud. I just have to change the reason you disagree with me from you not knowing to you "forgot".

Ouch!

My fishing partner is 74 years young and as sharp as a tack. "Young" might be a stretch though.

P.S. Yelas was great in his day... No argument here.

Thanks for the great laugh guys. I needed that.

I used to be a "stick"; but in a different sport....9-Ball.

Now I remember where I heard "stick", it was in the movie Hustler. Thanks Steez for jogging my memory. Minnesota Fats was a "stick". Yelas wasn't though, just pretty good. Van Dam is definitely a "stick".

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+ time on the water, watching, wettin, worms WWWWW.

Cross comparison analogy = time on treadmill.
[img]http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/pics...urvy_fat_girls_[/img]

Well,,,, this was quite enlightening and entertaining.
A lot of good ideas of what makes one a "stick" and why one person catches more fish than another have been posted so far.
Time on the Water seems to be a big key to catching fish.
I agree, but simply saying time on the water,,, is just that, too simple.
What you do, how you do it and what you take away with you from that TOW will determine whether or not you become a better fisherman and can catch fish on a consistent basis.
Other than that it comes down to God given talent.
Much like race car drivers, anyone can turn the car left and go around the race track, some can even go really, really fast in the same car. Then there are those that can go to a bit faster that win the pole or the race on any given Sunday.
That is best analogy I can come up with.
Thanks for all the input.

This was probably already said, but consistency. Someone who can consistently go out and put together a limit regardless of conditions, someone who is always a threat to win. You usually know who these guys are when you fish against them.

I would love to hear some of the specific details that go into accomplishing some of these. They are all wonderful attributes of a Great Fisherman. Expounding on these will definitely help others understand better how to accomplish them.
Just pick your strength and tell about it.

Posted Comments:

Confidence and knowing when to adjust to the conditions.

Reading water conditions, breaking down the water column, and finding multiple patterns throughout the lake.

It's so many little things but they add up to more and bigger keepers on a consistent basis.

Processing subtle data quicker from past experiences.

Learning from a "A Stick".

Ways to catch competing level fish wherever they go!

It's all about instinct and fishing the moment.

Knowledge is the best thing there is, and adapting to your knowledge and using it when it needs to be used.

A good angler with good electronics/maps and the ability to decipher both well.

They will excel because of their God given talent, intellect, accumulated knowledge, physical ability, etc..

A high fishing IQ.

Can catch bass in any lake, under any conditions, any time of the year against the best competition and produce typically winning weights.

Keen instinct.

My time on the Water Articles and Post.

3 Best Shallow Water Spots
http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/11252435/#Post11252435
3 Best Mid Range Spots
http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/11255879/#Post11255879
3 Best Deep Water Spots
http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/11259313#Post11259313

I think the difference is all mental.

Someone that consistently make's the right choices and adapts to the Conditions that are laid out before him and Time on the water!! my2cents

change, fish are never the same from day to day. the guys that know how to pattern fish rather than spot fish will always excel faster. also, understanding that fish don't read "the book" you have to be willing to try stuff even if it seems crazy. just because you think bass are deep in the summer and shallow in the fall doesn't mean the fish agree with your thoughts. fish can be caught any number of ways any given day, but you have to figure out what changes every day. The guys that adapt the quickest are the guys that stay on top of the game. Also, TIME ON THE WATER!