Discussion on TBend's future

Wondering what the TFF thinks. I think about a crash, or at least a slow slide could happen. Never seen the number of boats I have been seeing on The Bend. Now, I fish Rayburn more and am use to boat traffic and the Bend is rivaling it.

TBend is bigger but I expect the same results as what happened to Falcon with the publicity gained thru written electronic media. Once the Elites went there and smashed records Falcon has not been the same. The Bend will get hammered and big fish will get much more scarce, numbers will go down, and fishing will get tougher overall.

Pressure, spurred on by our favorite rag, Bassmaster Magazine, and other publicity such as the net will impact quality and quantity fishing.

Factors that could buffer The Bend:
--- TB's immense size and varied structure/cover

--- Watershed fertility supporting forage species

--- Mercury warnings on fish consumption may lead to more catch and release

Things that increase chance of decline:

--- Publicity of the lake is at an all time high now

--- TB is much more accessible to population centers and the nation as a whole

--- There is a "meat mentality" especially from the eastern shore

--- Probably more tourney pressure now (which displaces fish and increases mortality in hot East Texas summers)

--- With increased overall pressure you'll see increased pressure on bedding fish which might affect spawning some

I am no "expert" for sure. I do see the decline on Falcon, especially lunker fish. Just wondering about this reservoir which I have fished since the 1970's. Will TB follow the Falcon model? You might even say Amistad suffered some from the B.M. publicity prior to Falcon. Thoughts?

I suspect you are correct. I'd also add to your list the fact several other popular lakes like Fork are fishing very poorly, which shifts additional pressure to T-Bend. The size of the lake only offers so much protection. Sturgeon bay is vast and the same thing happened there after it was named the number one lake. The high water this year will help, but I doubt it'll offset the pressure. All that said, I don't think there is anything that can be done about it. Man is now part of when and how lakes cycle.

I have been fishing Toledo since the 1970s also and agree that we will probably see a decline in the near future. But lakes typically go through cycles and I think Toledo will withstand the pressure better than most due to it's size and depths...(wishful thinking).

Those cajuns eat any thing that swims, it happened at Amistad. I watched people cleaning numerous 5-7 lb blacks for years.

I think TB will be fine. But i also believe it will cycle as all lakes do. To me bait fish populations is the key.

I do see a decline coming for Toledo, but I don't think it'll be comparable to Falcon. There are no gill nets in Toledo.

What we need to do is build a tremendous wall right down the middle of the lake, to keep all those Cajuns off our side. We can use the vast crawfish trade deficit to between the two states to get them to pay for it!

I think it's already starting to happen. Been fishing there in the last few weeks? The amount of boats up there this past Wednesday/Thursday was crazy. The boat ramps were full in the middle of the week, and there was no major tournament this past weekend. Just a club tournament or two and a company tournament. The amount of pressure being put on these fish right now is crazy. Death by internet, just as Falcon, Amistad, Dunlap, etc.

I think the loss of hydrilla will hurt the lake also. I think the biggest factor on a large lake is grass and water level. Wasn't that long ago all the tournaments were avoiding Toledo and fishing just Rayburn.

the internet sucks

I was there recently and saw numerous Texans cleaning bass. It seems to be a common practice on TB, but it always makes me feel bad to see.

for the life of me,I dont know why people fool around with the internet,it not here to stay, just a fad

Fisheries go up and down just like everything else. Nothing to worry about, if it gets tough it will get better again a few years later.

Exactly!

I dont think it will decline much. The size and more consistent water levels than falcon

I hope it doesn't decline but I sure could see it happening. The hydrilla is almost gone which could hurt it some even though it should comega back pretty quick. Hopefully once the fish head to the summer spots the pressure on them will drop.

I see others kinda suspect this decline also.

On the fish consumption thingy I just read how higher levels of tissue accumulation of mercury in humans affect children and pregnant females the most leading to higher levels of mental retardation and autism. Keeping up with TB fishing reports on FB lets me know how many people are eating bass and you can track where they are from.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Toledobe...460055859179569

I too lament the fact the huge hydrilla beds are gone (same with Rayburn). With those you get fish production factories. And yes, the lake will cycle but the cycle recovery time could be impacted.

It was common for 10 pounds (or less) to get a check in solo tournaments during the mid 2000s on TB. I believe we are primarily benefiting now from the low water level 5 or so years ago. Catch and release has never been supported on TB as much as our other lakes. Others can comment as to why but I would ask that you all not forget about the Yankees coming down to fish it when you do.

Good thing is the depth of the lake.
DEEP!!!

fish don't live deep in East texas lakes

Don't tell the Toledo Bend Fish on the south end. They didn't get the memo.

What is deep?

30' is what I call deep. I have caught them deeper than that. 32'-34' dropping into 45'+. Pull it off the shelf in 30-32' foot and watch the line switch as it slides down the drop.

IMO the people cleaning and eating black bass in Toledo are helping the population. Not hurting it. Incredible how many fish are in Toledo and Rayburn.

Also, there is so much water on Toledo that never gets touched.

I used to catch cull clip fish all the time at Rayburn. Never at Toledo. Makes ya wonder.

I think some of you guys need to slack up go fish somewhere else other than Rayburn and Toledo !!!

finally someone said it!

It may decline at some point but not sure it's gonna be any time soon !! There were so many fish last year and this year that never saw a bait because of the water level. Two great spawning years in a row. Sure the lake gets hammered in the spring but during the summer the pressure is reducesd dramatically . I'm not a big fan of fishing high water in the spring but it's great for the spawn. Guess we will see !!

It will decline, happens to all the good lakes. Look at Amistad, Choke Canyon, Falcon, Conroe, Austin, and even Fork. Some other factors have affected them all as well, mainly drought but also the loss of hydrilla in all but Falcon.

It will only decline if we get a drastic drought and lose some spawn classes. As for now we are lucky to have high enough water to keep the shoreline vegetation healthy. It's definitely getting more pressure than ever.

Both Rayburn and T bend have been high during the spawn so more of the fry are making it hopefully. Rayburn was high last year too during the spring. I can only see the fish population grow, but taking a few fish out here and there won't affect the fishery, it'll help it if you take out small ones, say 12-16 inchers to eat

Go for it! Based off the information below that would be one dink/month for adults and a half a dink/month for the kiddos

Big Cypress Creek in Marion County; Caddo Lake in Harrison and Marion counties; and Toledo Bend Reservoir in Newton, Panola, Sabine and Shelby counties

Chemical of Concern:Mercury
All Locations: For largemouth bass and freshwater drum, adults should limit consumption to no more than two, 8-ounce meals per month, and children should limit consumption to no more than two, 4-ounce meals per month.

Ha if you saw the numbers of 2-4lb fish taken from that lake you would be surprised....I've even seen pics of coolers of 4-6lbers. Lots of people with mercury I guess.

yep, this ^^^^^^^. It is quite a bit more than a "dink" here and there. Fork, with its protective slot, it certainly not a numbers lake. TB doesn't get high like Rayburn and the fish aren't protected with water back in the woods/bushes like it either. BTW, even with the high water Rayburn is a tougher lake to fish than it was 20 years ago.

Woa now big boys I just came back from a 10 day stay @ Fin's and Feathers and seen plenty of Texas plates at the skinning shed and not cutting small ones. I also seen a 140 boat tournament with people walking up fish in hand to weigh station and bags with no water. The biggest fish I seen cleaned at falcon was 15 fish all over 6#'s by some Latino boys from Houston. I know us Cajuns get a bad wrap but dont act like Big Texans aint eating bass. I cleaned 13 bass in 10 days all under 2.5 #'s

You are right- the reason the fish got big was of the drought that restricted it's use for several years and gave then a chance to grow and not die after being released from a live well.

I was just razzing ya'll. You guys are awesome.

I agree with you on live well fish. My 2 cent opinion is that delayed mortality is a big deal compared to published tournament live release percentages. Especially during the Summer months. I do not like it but in some ways I think that tournament anglers are more likely to practice catch & release during their other days on the water.

There are couple of TPWD employees on TFF - maybe they can/will chime in on TB.

My old man tells stories about guiding out of Fin n Feathers in the 1970s and 1980s. They would race to catch 45 bass (3man limit) drop the clients off and take out another group for 45 fish. If they were lucky, They could get a 3rd trip that evening fishing into the dark. The fillet house was working wide open threw the evening/night. I've concluded the problem with fishing was the introduction of Florida Bass..

It is getting a bunch of pressure for sure, and I would imagine that it will go through its cycle like all lakes do. But it will always take 20+ pounds to win on any day.
One thing is for sure , my lake front property is going up for sure. 😜😜

The problem is that everyone has a boat nowadays. It's not like it was. The numbers of fisherman back then on a new lake compared to now is huge

To Jaret's point, not only does everybody have a boat.............we got a lot more humans now days. Rayburn'Toledo where a long way off from major cites back in the day. More people now wiliing to drive longer distances with better transportation.

Boats cover a lot more water than the 85 HP Foron a 16 ft Bayliner bassboat I started out with.

No matter what the reason, it all adds up. I agree on the Florida bass statement above too.

Somehow I think the locals in Zapata and Del Rio have had this discussion in the past?

Fishing sucks there now too. BUT I really have a feeling it was that low lake levels they had. Something was up with the Rio....too much fertilizers or something. Shared river with Mexico, you never know.

Well, with the precipitation the lake has recieved, I would imagine the the bait population is in good shape. Cry wolf on the interwebz, watch people panic, lol.

As mentioned, lakes cycle. In my unscientific opinion I think the lake will remain very strong for another 8-10+ years due to the size, depth, and vast array of different types of cover the lake offers... as long as we dont have a severe drought in that time frame the fishery will sustain the added pressure... you just might have to figure out a different way and different places to catch em. Not to mention its a great thing for all the businesses around the lake that struggled so badly for so many years. Regardless of how it cycles, I love this lake and will continue to make the drive every chance I get!

My favorite lake in Texas. Always been. Take a lifetime to learn it....and still not find it all. Don't see that much in Texas lakes.

I could not tell you the % Florida genes in TB today but I think it fished significantly better before Floridas were heavily stocked. The more I fish(ed) Northern strain bass out of state the more I dislike the Florida strain.

IMO the cycle of lakes is all aided alone by the internet, mother nature, and the people who manage it. Lakes don't need SAL programs, grass corp, meat hunters, and A hole's dumping [censored] that don't belong in them. LWLF and Texas Parks have helped ruin some good places.

A reservoir starts its decline the day they close the dam gates. Silt is the culprit. That said, there are so many factors that influence big reservoirs, one could write a book about it. The Bend was on it's way down till some Hydrilla came along. We look at some of these invasives, and in some cases they turn out to be a positive influence instead of a negative. The one thing I would worry about more than any other is the advance of sunlight choking invasives called Giant Salvinia. That could spell the death of the lake.

Is the hydrilla just knocked back due to the high water last year or is it due to spraying?

The Salvania was already out of control in some of the areas we fished last month, I cant help but think another round of helicopter spraying is on the horizon.

What does the salvania look like now after the floods? In the past with flood gates open, much of vacated the north end

Higher off color water killed. Same as Rayburn. It will be back on Toledo once the lake settles out