Guide Performance -- what do you think ?

Group of 6 hires 3 guides for 5 days straight.
Figure with tip cost for the week is $2,500 per guide.
The group fishes by 2s and switches partners and guides each day; round robin.
Guides 1 & 2 put their fishermen on good fish; numbers and big fish each day.
Guide 1actually puts his guys on 5 & 6 pound fish all five days and has big fish of the week at 8 pounds.
Guide 2 has no issue in finding fish
Guide 3 basically does zeros everyday, maybe some dinks here and there but ....."struggles"
Now after the 5 days are up; Monday--Friday,,,,,,,guide #3 fishes in a pro tournament on the lake he was just guiding on and producing "0" for his clients,,, Saturday (same week) wins the pro tournament with 25#s of fish.
What do you think ?
1.) that's fishing
2.) oh well
3.) he did his best
4.) think he earned his $2,500
Just asking what you think ?

For anyone reading this after the first 2,250 views:
this is just a scenario,,,,,, a what if.
it is not intended to be aimed at anyone or at any time.
some posters have suggested that,,,,but this is just my "what if" scenario.

Unfortunately I think it happens. Had a guide the 1st time I fished Rayburn same type of scenario, maybe caught a few more fish nothing even remotely considered large had him for 2 days about the only thing I did learn was how to run the lake from the bridge to the dam. Learned later that he was fishing one the majors there the next week. I don't believe this happens a lot but it does happen. No sense in getting upset, at least I learned a little about the lake. I know I haven't answered your question, but I guess to answer it would be oh well and that's fishing.

I think I'd have damn well known his schedule and used a different guide..... Human nature being what it is, I'm not surprised at the lack of effort to protect his fish......and I'd not tipped him, paid his fee and [censored] you very much....

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess the guide you are talking about is Gleason? If I'm correct in that guess I'm gonna tell you that as windy as it was that week y'all were there, there was absolutely no possible way for him to take a guide party and fish the areas he fished in the tournament.

Why would you say this ?
Any of it ?
1.) I did not call out names
2.) I didn't say where/when
3.) what would the weather have to do with it if the other guides caught numbers and BiG fish

I think if you want to know why things played out as they did you need to contact the guide in question assuming you want fact and not speculation.

I told you it was just a guess.

Read the last 6 lines of my post:
Just asking "what do you think"
I am not looking for a reason why,,,,,,,, it may or may not have been done.
Just want to know what the majority of fishermen would think about the scenario

??? Educated ???

I would think he was protecting his fish. On big tournament lakes guides that fish tournaments on those waters will never show you their own secrets. Most of the time it's a competitor in the boat with them so can you really blame them? I say yes. Either be a guide or fish tournies. I think it's pretty scum bagish to not give it your all to put guys on fish just to save your own a$$. I also don't condone hiring a certain guide as a fellow competitor just to steal his spots or techniques. Like I said, either guide or fish tournies, not both, atleast on the same body of water.

Maybe the guide wasn't on fish in protected areas. Who knows, it's fishing. Move on, nothing to see here imo

Fair enough......Since I wasn't there to make a better judgment in the matter I cant choose either 3 or 4. And as not to sound rude or disinterested that leaves out 2. Which leaves me with 1. You cant asses if the guy gave it everything he had or if he earned his money with the info provided without speculating.

OK,,,
If this happened, later would you ask the guide WHY he could get on fish enough to win the tournament but not put you on fish the prior 5 days,,,, keeping in mind:
$$$$ spent $2,500
Performance of the other 2 guides

I forgot

What if all the guide had was offshore fish and the wind blew it out?

Could that have been the case?

I am sure that there could be exceptions to this - the best bass fishermen on tournament lakes are not guiding but if they did 80+% of their customers will never see those fish.

Some other but simple examples are with the "new" Honey Hole television show - Gleason takes Bill to a community hole in Hausen and Combs takes Bill to some riprap near Stow-a-Way on Conroe.

Honestly....No. If I had any concerns about how the trip was going I would bring them up while on the water and clear the air there. Weather out with a guide or a tournament I want to leave the lake with a clean slate knowing 1)in my mind everything is aired out and 2) what's done is done and wont affect me next time out. That's just me tho.

I wouldn't thinkbto ask him "during" the week. I would think he was just off his fish. It would only be after he brought in a winning bag for the tournament that I would say "WTF"

The wind theory sounds pretty plausible. Why didn't you chime up on day 2 or 3? I also, don't understand hiring a guide for a week straight. If he's on them, you are going to know the pattern day one. If he's not on them, you may very well get what you got.

I would think the other two guides should have helped him during the guide trips.
and what tournament lets guides fish on the same lake that they were guiding on,..DUH.
If everyone switched guides for the five days everyone then caught fish,..
I'm sure he wasn't keeping you guys off fish...

I think it is exactly the senerio it looks like. If the other two guides would have struggled I would believe the responses like the wind and weather. But that doesnt stand up here. It sounds like not only did the guide not go to his good spots, he did not fish any water that held any fish.
if this actually happened I would let anyone that is thinking of hiring a guide there know about this.

Bfl, weekend series, Costa, opens...etc

Well,,,
Interesting scenario.
Interesting responses.
Thanks for playing along ........

Sounds fishy to me
I would reach out to him for his side of the story.

If the time the guide had to spend in the boat with you was anything like this thread he should have charged you 5k. Lol

I would be pizzed and I would have his name in this thread "un-guessed". But I thought most tournaments had off limit time frames? Did this tournament have this?

What if the clients were not skilled enough to catch them fish? If this scenario is on Rayburn Toledo or fork. These bodies of water change daily. One school biting for 15minutes is all it takes. Dad's clients had a 10 and a 9 yesterday. I couldn't buy 5 fish. It happens.

I agree. Exactly like it sounds. Saved his fish for the tournament.

I think we all know the answer on this one.

Sounds like your talking about Darold. The fish he caught in the tournament was found the day before. He is a stand up guy and would never purposefully not put his clients on fish. And the fish he caught in e tournament were unfishable most of the week because of wind.

Ding ding ding...

I did not say this was a true story,,,,,,,I gave a what if scenario.
You are the second person to say this.
?????

isnt that what I said from the start

Nutman we all know you and your party were on Toledo the week of the bad winds. Your daily play by play told us all that. We also know that there was a Ram open that Saturday. And know what guide won it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist figure where and who you were talking about. Educated guess? Yes

This is going nowhere fast

n/m

Sorry,
But I was back in Athens Wednesday night.
I fished Toledo Bend Saturday - Sunday - Monday-Tuesday & Wednesday.
I didn't fish with any guides while I was there.
I fished out of my own boat and did just fine Monday & Tuesday. I fished Housen with and caught a couple of 6s and some 4s.
Wednesday went to Palo Goucho and it was too muddy. Went back to Athens early Wednesday morning.
Just a scenario,,,,,,,just a question about what would you think if it happened.

I know what I would think...I wouldn't get on here making up scenarios...

A thread was started by WackAttackPro on 3-30-16 that started with:
"Have you ever fished with a guide and didn't catch fish ?"
That was a one day, one time scenario question.
There were 109 responses to that thread.

Mine question was a little more involved:
5 days -- 3 guides -- $2,500 each -- big group
2 guides put the clients on quality fish
and "one" guide didn't get on fish until after the clients trip is over,,,,,,
just in time to win a weekend tournament.

Not my story,,,,,I'm just asking ...... would that be OK or would you be PO'd.
Personally, I don't hire guides.
Out of 4 guides that I have hired only one put me on any fish.
I am a big believer in paying for results.

So you're saying the guide put them on zero fish or just not up to someone's standards?

This is absolutely the first questionable thing I've ever heard about Darold. I have no doubt be found those fish the day before the tournament. Darold is going to take care of clients. If the lake was windy and rough, he's not going to take clients (who quite possibly 60+ yrs old cuz who else is gonna take off a week and pay a guide $2500 for 5 days) out in it. Fishing offshore is a different game in itself much less adding 15-20mph wind and 3-4' swells. I confidently believe he tried to take safe way out and allow his clients to enjoy their day by fishing in protected areas. Usually he will catch them wherever he wants to...sounds like it didn't work out for him this time.

I guarantee you had you given Darold a call the week after his tournament, congratulated him and then asked why he didn't take you guys to these fish, he wouldn't have given you a honest and accurate answer. Now that you come on here and tried to throw him to the dogs, I hope he doesn't even answer your call....but I bet he will. That's just the kinda dude he is.

Alex, I will take Question #4 for $2500 please

You can't blame a guy when the wind blows 30mpH all week and doesn't blow at all on Saturday. All you can do in 30mph wind on toledo is fish where you can.

"Personally, I don't hire guides.
Out of 4 guides that I have hired only one put me on any fish"

Stay off the witness stand! Lol

He was probably underpaid at $2500.00.

Take note guides, if someone by the name of nutman calls, tell him you are booked or this could be you.

And to think I thought nutman was being serious and I answered seriously.

Nutman, Maybe the problem with your guide experiences is the pre form attitude of what a guide is going to do for you. You seem to have a sore spot for guides. I have been out with guides some did good some not. I never thought I was being mistreated or played as part of a game.

To evaluate a persons efforts and question that persons honor in his business matters is something that should be addressed to that person, to their face, not as an attack in a public forum. Update this with the outcome of your meeting please...It could be interesting.

Look,,,,,read the opening post.
it is a scenario.
I didn't hire a guide,,,,,I wasn't involved,,,,, there is nothing I need to discuss with anyone.
This is not about my guide experiences.
I put it out there to see what people thought.
If you don't want to answer then don't.


In the past I have hired guides,,,personally I choose not to do so now.
There is nothing I can learn from a guide & I "understand" a one day trip that might not produce any or many or quality fish, SO "I" choose not to hire guides and spend money on the chance that they will not be on fish. I think that a fishing guide gets a pass because it is just "fishing". That's just me.

"IF" ,just "IF",,,,, I had paid that kind of money and watched 2 guides work their tails off and put their clients on good fish (fishing in the same kind of weather) & the 3rd not do anything much for 5 days and then go out and put a winning bag of fish in his boat for a tournament the day after the guide trip was over, while I was still at the lake,,,, I would be PO'd and I would be calling him out......asking for a refund....or whatever.....plus I would be praising the other 2 guides by name and making sure their performance for their clients was well documented. BUT since this is just a story, a scenario, a "what if" ,,,,, there is nothing or no one for me to go talk with/about.

This is not about me, this is about what you would think if it happened to you.

James: you make the evaluation in this circumstance. Would YOU be OK with the scenario ?

I can't believe I wasted my time reading through this entire thread....

NUTMAN, I think where this thread went wrong was from your initial post. If you had written it a little different indicating from the start that "guys this is a make believe scenario" just want your input....not a real story, it never actually happened, etc., it would have been better understood. I read your initial post several times and it never indicated it was just a "what if" scenario that never happened.

2,248 views
There seems to be a lot of people interested in the premise: "Guide Performance"

point well taken,,,,,although I did try to later state that, it could well have been overlooked by anyone reading fast.





Well, apparently you had nothing better to do

nevermind...not worth it

so,,,, I amended the original post with a footnote.

I can't see this as a scenario. Words can be called anything to accommodate the opinions of someone that has an agenda. Either stated or called something else. You seem to have first hand information ( to an extent) about the so called scenario. Enough so that several people were able to figure out who you were putting in the scenario. That takes it to another place and it seems, as you have stated, you don't enjoy guides or the amazingly hard profession they have chosen.

Please put me on the "ok with it side". Not knowing all the particulars of the fishing trips because I wasn't in the boat.
People should be given the benefit of doubt till proven to you to be without honor. These people, once identified, will be eliminated from future decisions by their own deeds.

I can say I have been on guide trips on many lakes and have enjoyed them all, fish catching or not. It is after all an interaction between people that I would hope is fun for all.

This is a train wreck.

Nutman I think it will be hard for a lot of people to give this a serious look because, when they booked the guide they didn't care if they caught a fish. They booked the guide to learn how to run their electronics, or to learn how to drive a boat in rough water, or learn a certain way of fishing. I read your first post as you were not fishing and was just asking a question. I do also believe you are right if they did hire the guide to catch fish and they do not get on the fish the guide is given a pass because it is fishing. We are fishing to keep our mind off of our daily lives and just do not want the conflict. We are blessed with some of the best guides we could ask for. We do have a lot of guides That are just not very good and do not catch a lot of fish. I know guides that catch big fish and a lot of fish most days they are fishing. They catch on over 95% of their days and some more. Their are guides that do not catch a fish on at least 20% of their days guiding. I do think its up to us to do a little research to fine out which guide we are looking at hiring. I do know their are guides that are some of the best at certain times of the year and they are the guide during that time. That same guide I wouldn't hire during other times. We need to know up front which guide we hired. Their are guides that will not charge you if you didn't catch a fish or could not put you on fish. I know guides that will take you and charge you no matter what the conditions or whether they put you on fish. I will repeat its up to us to do the research to fine out which guide we are talking to.

I will say Mr Gleason is one of the best guides around and just a great guy. I do not believe Darold would not put his clients on fish just to win a tournament. Darold is not that type of person. I would suggest if someone thinks this happened to call the guide and fine out, if it really did then I have no problem with calling them out so other people will not hire that person. I just do know believe Darold would ever do that. good luck either way

So did this happen or is it really hypothetical? Sounds like to me it really happened. Guessing SJ was one of the two "good" guides.

Lol, some "scenario" huh? Bad thing is nutman didn't even fish with any of these guys.

I think his real question is should guides be accountable. They seam to get a free ride, I think his question is two guides did well the third didn't. I have personally been with guides that told me they were sorry we had a bad day but I am a local so they didn't want me on their good stuff. I will go ahead a answer no I didn't go out with them any more. I also went with guides that said they thought I was hiring so many guides to start guiding so they were not going to take me to their good spots and also I did not hire them any more. I am not and have never been a guide. I do believe their is different ethics in the many different guides, we just give them all a free pass because it is fishing. Guides are just people and have the same tendencies as everyone. They have their favorite clients and that is the people they want to put on their big fish if possible for repeat business. I think if we think this doesn't happen we are just fooling our selves or just want to protect our favorite guide.

FINALLY;
a real intelligent answer to a provoking question.

You know if this question and answer session makes some people "uncomfortable",,,,,, then so be it.
I asked a real & honest question...... to a situation that if it happened to me, I would be pi$$ed off big time. Maybe a question that others,,,,, in the same scenario,,,,, would not ask because they are too nice.
I'm not so nice,,,,,I wanted to know what people thought if this were to happen to them.

What's considered a "good" day? If the guide put you on fish regardless if it was as "good" as the other 2 guides why is this even a discussion. Maybe he caught some good ones on tournament day. It's still fishing, guys act like a guide should put you on 30lbs a day each trip. That just doesn't happen.

Fixed it for you