Texas Fishing Forum

To the guys that always catch fish

Posted By: Chris_K

To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 12:44 AM

All the fish finder photos I've seen lately and reading the corresponding comments got me thinking about my processes. Do you locate fish on your FF before you grab a pole? Do you know you're around fish due to your electronics before you fish a spot? I'm thinking that my lack of understanding FF's has handicapped my fishing results severely. Is there anyone here that flat catches em without much assistance from electronics? Am I putting too much stock into electronics?
Posted By: Brent S

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 12:59 AM

Fish finders don't become very useful until you want to fish 10 ft or deeper off shore stuff.
Posted By: Frank the Tank

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:00 AM

Depends on how you fish. Do you like to just troll down the bank on the trolling motor covering water with moving baits? If so, then your FF isn't as important. Do you like to fish specific targets on shore like docks, or lay-down trees, etc.? If so, then your FF isn't as important. But if you like to fish brush-piles in 20 foot of water, then you better get better at your electronics. I don't even fish brush-piles or rock-piles that I don't see fish on or baitfish around. If they ain't there, I ain't stoppin. A quality unit with side imaging is worth every penny.
Posted By: FMJshooter

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:13 AM

For me the deep bite can be more reliable so yes that's where knowing how to use your graphs is important. Most times if I'm fishing shallow without success I can pull out and catch them deep.

Can help fishing shallow too if you idle an area close to shore and see shad being fed on it's pretty much a guarantee that you're going to hammer em with moving baits on the bank.
Posted By: Lake Fork Guide

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:21 AM

I almost always graph a hole that's deeper than 14-15 feet before I fish it, if I don't mark a school I'm moving on. I may idle for 2-3 hours before I find what I want to see, fish ideally position on a piece of deep structure or drop off, close to the bottom where a Crig or Footnall jig will be in their faces. If they are 3-6 feet off the bottom a drop shot or spoon normally works best. The exception is shallower structure where I may spook fish id eking over them. I'll typically use my structure scan (side imaging) to graph these spots

This is where booking me for a 1/2 day this time of the year is money extremely well spent
Posted By: Wayne P.

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Frank the Tank
Depends on how you fish. Do you like to just troll down the bank on the trolling motor covering water with moving baits? If so, then your FF isn't as important. Do you like to fish specific targets on shore like docks, or lay-down trees, etc.? If so, then your FF isn't as important. But if you like to fish brush-piles in 20 foot of water, then you better get better at your electronics. I don't even fish brush-piles or rock-piles that I don't see fish on or baitfish around. If they ain't there, I ain't stoppin. A quality unit with side imaging is worth every penny.


If you have the imaging technology, you can scan docks, laydowns, etc and know which ones have fish on them THEN fish for them. Don't have to pass directly over stuff to see stuff.
You can do that in less than 2' of water with Humminbird Side Imaging. Additionally during the spawn if the water is too muddy to see fish on the beds, imaging will show where they are. It lets you "sight fish" with zero visibility.
Posted By: Chris_K

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:33 AM

I do like to run the banks but this time of year, and when it's really cold, it would help a lot to be able to get deeper. Once I back the boat away of the bank.... It's just a guessing game to me.
Posted By: Santonio Banderas

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:55 AM

I have expensive units mounted front and back and use them a lot but there are plenty of times that info with gut feelings. Just because there isn't a school of fish or bait fish right under me doesn't mean I can't fish out in front of to the side of my boat. I have caught far more fish without using my graphs than I have with using them. I like to use the old term "like the Indians used to do it" (no offense to Indians, it's actually quite the opposite) a good understanding of electronics is great but I know guys who can tell you anything you need to know about graphs and can't catch a fish to save their lives and vice versa. Fishing deep is fine and can produce great results but a lot of guys get hung up on only fishing deep certain times of the year. When it's hot I catch fish shallow and when it's very cold I catch big fish shallow...... I never seen them fish on a graph by the way. If I see a place that looks like it will hold fish I'll fish it. I am a big fan of fishing jigs, worms etc in cover and that's what in good at. I will fish those baits year round and catch fish in all different depths. The problem I see with a lot of guys is thatnthwu get hung up on one certain way of fishing during a certain time of year and that's all they do.... As a fisherman and especially tournament guys, you've got to be able to be diverse and fish shallow, deep, cover, open water, sight fish, rely on your graph etc..... Think about this... KVD uses search baits to locate fish.... Ask yourself why
Posted By: Frank the Tank

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Wayne P.
Originally Posted By: Frank the Tank
Depends on how you fish. Do you like to just troll down the bank on the trolling motor covering water with moving baits? If so, then your FF isn't as important. Do you like to fish specific targets on shore like docks, or lay-down trees, etc.? If so, then your FF isn't as important. But if you like to fish brush-piles in 20 foot of water, then you better get better at your electronics. I don't even fish brush-piles or rock-piles that I don't see fish on or baitfish around. If they ain't there, I ain't stoppin. A quality unit with side imaging is worth every penny.


If you have the imaging technology, you can scan docks, laydowns, etc and know which ones have fish on them THEN fish for them. Don't have to pass directly over stuff to see stuff.
You can do that in less than 2' of water with Humminbird Side Imaging. Additionally during the spawn if the water is too muddy to see fish on the beds, imaging will show where they are. It lets you "sight fish" with zero visibility.


Good points on the docks, forgot about that.
Posted By: Santonio Banderas

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Frank the Tank
Depends on how you fish. Do you like to just troll down the bank on the trolling motor covering water with moving baits? If so, then your FF isn't as important. Do you like to fish specific targets on shore like docks, or lay-down trees, etc.? If so, then your FF isn't as important. But if you like to fish brush-piles in 20 foot of water, then you better get better at your electronics. I don't even fish brush-piles or rock-piles that I don't see fish on or baitfish around. If they ain't there, I ain't stoppin. A quality unit with side imaging is worth every penny.



I also agree with this
Posted By: PEDRO H.

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 02:17 AM

We like fishing away from the bank and side/down imaging has helped up eliminate a lot of dead water.
Posted By: DAN-O

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 02:44 AM

So what some of you are saying is that if there was a tournament trail that only allowed cheap depth finders, you wouldn't be good enough to win it against a level playing field? Lol.
Posted By: DAN-O

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 02:49 AM

And doesn't it dampen your pride somewhat to know that you have to rely on electronics to catch fish versus just instincts and skill alone? I won't ever pay 2,000 bucks for a depth finder. I understand many pros do and have to for competition at the pro level. I just wish sometimes technology was no so great. I spoke with a real pro about technology. He hates GPS because it allows amateur fishermen to catch fish others have located and marked. Send a simple text to fish so and so coordinates and that angler can do well, versus finding fish on his own like it should be. That is why MLF is such a great format! If you don't know all the rules of MLF, I would be happy to share them with you.
Posted By: jbcarroll3000

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: DAN-O
And doesn't it dampen your pride somewhat to know that you have to rely on electronics to catch fish versus just instincts and skill alone? I won't ever pay 2,000 bucks for a depth finder. I understand many pros do and have to for competition at the pro level. I just wish sometimes technology was no so great. I spoke with a real pro about technology. He hates GPS because it allows amateur fishermen to catch fish others have located and marked. Send a simple text to fish so and so coordinates and that angler can do well, versus finding fish on his own like it should be. That is why MLF is such a great format! If you don't know all the rules of MLF, I would be happy to share them with you.


hmmm
Posted By: Anchorman

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 03:03 AM

I haven't fished competitively for over 10 years. But when I did My little hummingbird was a cheapo basic unit. I only used it for depth. I always fished patterns. I never once relied on my FF to find fish. I caught a lot of fish too. Its more important to know the general patterns the fish are on. Having good electronics and knowing how to use it on top of having a very good feel and knowledge of what the fish are doing would be a big advantage.

Now if you want to fish specific structure a nice FF and knowing how to use it will definitely be to your advantage. It also helps to find bait fish. If you fish where you know there are bait fish there are almost always fish there. I still drop a marker when I'm on a brush pile.

With all this new technology it is really to anyone's advantage to get decent electronics and learn the basics. I recently bought a Helix 5 SI/GPS and love it. But I get caught up in messing with it too much rather than fishing. It amazes what all it will do.

I don't have any electronics on my jon boat yet. The last two trips out in my jon boat I have caught a LOT of bass and had a blast. It was actually nice not having any electronics to look at. I just went with my instincts and it worked.
Posted By: James Biggs

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 03:36 AM

I'm the opposite of a lot of guys. If I know a spot is decent such as a brush pile, rock pile or point I like to cast to it befor I run over it. I like my bait to tell me more about the spot. Plus I think big bass can be spooky so driving over them to pre graph the spot can cause them to be more aware that you are there. I might only make 10-15 cast of no takers before I graph it. I can tell you that I've had enough success this way that I'm not changing now.
Posted By: Thad Rains

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 04:02 AM

I do not even use a depth finder any more, unless on a lake I am new too. I am the odd ball out, because my favorite electronics was a flasher, because it was immediate and you knew what was what, after watching for quite a while. But, no, I do not use a depth finder unless I am on a new lake. Just let my instincts take over and let it fly, of course, I do not fish a lot of new lakes, either, so I know the lakes I am fishing pretty well. I am just an old school guy, I guess. I am also a friend of Ralph Manns, who cordened off a cover for a month and fished with teh depth finder on for an hour and then off for an hour. He found fish started biting 20-30 minutes AFTER the depth finder was turned off, so I pay attention to his findings and beliefs. Hope this helps.

Tight lines, keep safe and good luck.

Thad Rains
Posted By: 96speed

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:10 PM

Originally Posted By: James Biggs
I'm the opposite of a lot of guys. If I know a spot is decent such as a brush pile, rock pile or point I like to cast to it befor I run over it. I like my bait to tell me more about the spot. Plus I think big bass can be spooky so driving over them to pre graph the spot can cause them to be more aware that you are there. I might only make 10-15 cast of no takers before I graph it. I can tell you that I've had enough success this way that I'm not changing now.


Interesting.
Posted By: JacksonBean

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:26 PM

In deep water in the heat of the summer, a graph just helps me know where to cast. I can't imagine fishing deep water without electronics.


Edited..... But this post wasn't directed to me. wink
Posted By: Mulholland

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:42 PM

Originally Posted By: 96speed
Originally Posted By: James Biggs
I'm the opposite of a lot of guys. If I know a spot is decent such as a brush pile, rock pile or point I like to cast to it befor I run over it. I like my bait to tell me more about the spot. Plus I think big bass can be spooky so driving over them to pre graph the spot can cause them to be more aware that you are there. I might only make 10-15 cast of no takers before I graph it. I can tell you that I've had enough success this way that I'm not changing now.


Interesting.


I am the same, I am going to cast to it before I run it over if I know the structure or cover is there that I want to fish. "Fish finders" aka depth finders, are 90% x-ray vision to see the water column and lake floor to spot fishy structure and cover, 10% look-at-those-fish-i'ma-cath'em as far as I am concerned. And knowing that, I don't want to ruin a spot going over it idling and pinging any fish that may be there. I've seen pet bass in peoples aquariums and around peoples docks be trained for feeding time, I am sure over time big bass learn that they should not eat weird looking stuff within moments of hearing outboard engines and having sonar ping them lol.

If I was trying to cash a check on them, you bet your butt I'd want them to see my bait before they hear my big motor!
Posted By: Ranger1

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By: DAN-O
And doesn't it dampen your pride somewhat to know that you have to rely on electronics to catch fish versus just instincts and skill alone? I won't ever pay 2,000 bucks for a depth finder. I understand many pros do and have to for competition at the pro level. I just wish sometimes technology was no so great. I spoke with a real pro about technology. He hates GPS because it allows amateur fishermen to catch fish others have located and marked. Send a simple text to fish so and so coordinates and that angler can do well, versus finding fish on his own like it should be. That is why MLF is such a great format! If you don't know all the rules of MLF, I would be happy to share them with you.


Do you still have a rotary phone???
Posted By: Anchorman

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 01:53 PM

There is something to this and I'm glad to see someone other than me make these points. I was taught old school and believe the big bass are spooky and relate unnatural noises to danger. I've always tried to sneak into the new areas and approach them as quietly as possible. And I used to catch a lot of big bass so I believe there is something to it.

Sometimes I would even go as far as starting down current and drifting across points or areas making it a point not to run my trolling motor at all. If you know where the structure is you should try this tactic.
Posted By: Donald Harper

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 05:03 PM

To me it depends on how competitive you intend to be. No, you do not need the best electronics to find the fish even for competition; but you will have to put the time in on the water to pick your spots for competition day. It then becomes a time factor of how long to stay. Do I stay or do I go?

Over the 50 years that I fished with average electronics, it was always about location of my best spots. It takes fishing at least 20 good potential top water spots just to have one great spot. I could only get to a couple or three each morning to find it; so this takes a week of fishing just to locate one spot holding fish. I want 3 great spots to run to if I need them each morning and catch the largest bass as possible at one of them. To have three great top water spots unless you are lucky will take 3 weeks of searching.

Now when I make the move to the second drops after the top water bite is over with; is where the great electronics can save you tons of time. I also want 3 of these spots on the lake that I know will hold fish and the search factor is the same; about 3 weeks of looking and fishing the last brush lines close to deep water in about 10 to 15 feet. Fishing miles and miles of these without electronics is a must but they will come again with 3 weeks of looking.

After moving then to deep structure and finding 3 spots there, having great electronics is almost a must in this day and time. These are the 3 spots that I expect to catch the kicker fish on. Being able to drive over these spots in 20 to 30 ft. of water does not disturb them and allows you to pick them off if they are there. Here again I have been able to find these spots over the years without this equipment but the time spent out there fishing and the time reading maps to find a potential spots is very extensive. Nothing wrong with that but sense I have spent the time it is just nice to drive over them and stop to fish for them. Otherwise we are talking about at least having GPS Maps to follow contours and just fish each spot thoroughly and hope for the best luck possible.
Posted By: Mulholland

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 05:12 PM

I've been skunked plenty of times staring at graphs... sometimes I visit my buddy with a wakeboat and we fish off it... no graphs, no TM... traditional anchor... I have not one single time been skunked on the wakeboat, and always get us all on fish when we go out lol. Funny how that works! I always joke that I should just install a livewell and take his out to tourneys instead and that I reckon it's because the bass can tell the bass boats from all the noise of the TM and the outboard tilt/trim and the graphs running and the hydrowaves... the wake boat that displaces 2-3x the water of my bass rig suddenly becomes the stealthier approach ironically!
Posted By: JacksonBean

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Mulholland
.......I reckon it's because the bass can tell the bass boats from all the noise of the TM and the outboard tilt/trim and the graphs running and the hydrowaves... the wake boat that displaces 2-3x the water of my bass rig suddenly becomes the stealthier approach ironically!



I think you are giving bass way too much credit.

We had a banner day on Fork a few weeks ago after driving over a spot three times, throwing a buoy at the wad of fish and buzzing our trolling motor constantly due to the wind. If these are some of the most "educated" fish in the country then we must have found a really dumb school. wink

I don't think I would have had the confidence to sit there and throw for an hour while not getting a bite unless I knew there were fifty plus nice bass down there holding on that point.

I also don't doubt that you can train a huge bass to shy away from a sonar ping but too many big bass get caught with the sonar running to say that's the norm.
Posted By: Mulholland

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: JacksonBean
Originally Posted By: Mulholland
.......I reckon it's because the bass can tell the bass boats from all the noise of the TM and the outboard tilt/trim and the graphs running and the hydrowaves... the wake boat that displaces 2-3x the water of my bass rig suddenly becomes the stealthier approach ironically!



I think you are giving bass way too much credit.

We had a banner day on Fork a few weeks ago after driving over a spot three times, throwing a buoy at the wad of fish and buzzing our trolling motor constantly due to the wind. If these are some of the most "educated" fish in the country then we must have found a really dumb school. wink

I don't think I would have had the confidence to sit there and throw for an hour while not getting a bite unless I knew there were fifty plus nice bass down there holding on that point.

I also don't doubt that you can train a huge bass to shy away from a sonar ping but too many big bass get caught with the sonar running to say that's the norm.


Maybe you had to throw for an hour because the three times you passed over an active school turned them off for a half hour or so, til you sat there and they got used tot he steady thrum of your TM running holding you in wind there, and then they started eating again... you could very well just be proving my point equally if not more likely than disproving it lol
Posted By: JacksonBean

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 07:55 PM



Sorry for the confusion..... Caught a 5 and 7 pounder immediately.... Then 20 minutes and three more..... Then 15 minutes and four more.... Twice during the day the bite shut down for about an hour yet we staying there knowing what we saw on our electronics. Oh and by the way.... Both graphs running the whole time. wink
Posted By: Mulholland

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 07/30/15 08:23 PM

I gotcha, now I'm pickin up what yer putting down lizard

Yeah what you described is pretty well the norm for most of us I think. In general I don't think it is that much of an issue, but amidst a day of tough bites, I think being able to slide up onto a spot you know with everything off and just fish a spot knowing fish should be there is every bit as lethal as being able to sit on a spot like you were just knowing the fish on the graph hadn't moved away, and would likely start up again at some point.

By no means do I intend to imply you can't catch fish that way or that it isn't the quickest most successful way to fish even, but rather that when fishing for THAT FISH, a lot of times idling across or even running the graphs isn't necessary and could be making a tough bite tougher, so if you already know what is there, it can be invaluable to just run up and fish it before scouting it on game day. I.E. You've patterned fish here all week already, so chances are you aren't 'wasting' any time by making those casts prior to graphing a feature on the day of. I don't think you'd find anyone who would claim the graphs running and big motor idling and trolling motor churning don't make fish take notice... AFAIK that's the #1 benefit to shallow water anchor systems is not sitting there lowing an area out standing on the TM as you fish it, though I guess for many anglers it could just be the sheer convenience of deploying it and not having to work the TM to stay in one spot...

Long story short, use them when you need them but otherwise shut them off IMO, just like you wouldn't leave the big motor running, or the TM running for no reason, so why have the graphs running for no reason? In your situation you graphed and were catching and the caliber of fish meant you weren't soon leaving... other than the brief periods it shut off having the graphs on aided you in no way, right? What if the bite had been even better with the graphs off? I wouldn't have needed graphs running to keep me on the bite so I'd have shut them off because they couldn't be adding to the quality of fishing in any way at that moment but could be taking away, in my opinion.
Posted By: DAN-O

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/03/15 08:34 PM

No sir! IPhone...with a direct number to a friend who started Bassmaster and MLF. Sorry if I struck a nerve about you not being able to find fish alone without the use of electronics or GPS! Lol
Posted By: blooper961

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/03/15 08:37 PM

If you caught fish everytime where would be the suspense?
Posted By: DAN-O

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/03/15 08:40 PM

These conversations are why MLF is the best format in fishing' once pros know the hotel location, they can not talk to anyone at all about the location or research it at all. It is totally blind competition on a lake they have never been one before...and is regulated by an ex-FBI head honcho who administers lie detector tests to every fisherman. If a participant gets a bit of knowledge from a local, they are required to submit it to the leader and if the information is deemed to be valuable, it is shared with all participants!
Posted By: DAN-O

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/03/15 08:44 PM

The main thing that will cause a DW with MLF is researching I go online or getting info from outside sources. Most everything else is judged by 2-4 minute penalties according to the severity of the infractions. It helps eliminate "advantages" the amateur locals can give the "pros". I venture to say most of us would be very u comfortable fishing a lake in which we have never been on before and could use all the electronic help we could get! Which is why MLF focuses on total weight and not best 5 fish like the old Bassmaster circuit. BTW...Gary Klein started both. He hates traditional weigh-ins! Too much stress on the fish. So are nets and carpet removing the slime, which is why no nets are allowed and an angler is assessed a two minute penalty if the fish touches carpet of the anglers clothing!
Posted By: Trickster

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/03/15 08:49 PM

I read the MLF startup story in Bass Quest magazine. Very informative.
Posted By: Chris_K

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/03/15 09:03 PM

I enjoy watching MLF much more than bass master coverage. I'm very amazed at how "hard" these dudes fish. They make more casts in an hour than I do in half a day!
Posted By: Razorback

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/03/15 09:13 PM

I don't ever see fish on my electronics...as in never. I don't always hammer them, but I usually catch my share.

I use my FF for two things...depth and water temperature. I use the GPS to mark waypoints and hazards, and to tell me how to run the lake...especially in the dark.
Posted By: Chris_K

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/03/15 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Razorback
I don't ever see fish on my electronics...as in never. I don't always hammer them, but I usually catch my share.

I use my FF for two things...depth and water temperature. I use the GPS to mark waypoints and hazards, and to tell me how to run the lake...especially in the dark.


This is me. But I see the guys that can see a fish on their screen and then drop shot on its head and catch it! Obviously that why they are pros, but I feel like it would make such a big difference to be able to utilize my electronics better.
Posted By: stratos1760dv

Re: To the guys that always catch fish - 08/04/15 04:25 AM

The best thing out to improve your success ratio IMO are the buck perry home study course and the DVDs on sonar and GPS. I have a totally different prospective and it is working for me. ITAINTTV.COM is the site where this info is available. The DVDs were featured in Bassmaster magazine and are made by Wilson Frazier "the professor". It is where I learned about the info. The books tell you in detail where the fish live and how to properly cover those areas. The DVDs tell you everything you need to know about sonar and GPS. Someone mentioned flashers, if you have the A scope on it is just like a flasher, it is instant info. Plus the the far right side of the screen is the next closest thing to real time. Sonar just is a ruler of time and distance. It is not a camera taking pictures.
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