FFR and much MLF news.

I listened to the Florida Fishing Radio live show this morning and it was packed with a lot of MLF news and informed speculation. They broke the news that Brian Latimer of the FLW pro series is moving to the BASS opens exclusively next year and has big sponsor going with him. It was also disclosed that they know of at least 5 - 6 “major” sponsors who are abandoning MLFLW and many others are reducing their roles with them significantly. From what was reported, it seems there are a bunch of anglers who are fishing the BPT that are losing long time sponsors too and are pissed about it. It seems like the wheels are starting to come off and MLF is a slow motion train wreck. The Kroenke affect?

See: https://youtu.be/hIoMjsELfZQ

Love BLat, good guy, wish him the best.

Jon are y'all close friends?

Boy you've jumped in here in a big way.

Here's the punchline AGAIN. Right now you don't have visibility to the new sponsors coming to MLF and FLW and/or those who are upgrading their sponsorship and investment in the platform(s). No one listens when I say this because I guess it's more fun to panic but let all of the dust settle on the transition and the new sponsorships that will be announced. They will be significant and it will be a net positive gain.

There will be some endemic brands reducing their roles and some increasing, there have already been new non-endemics sign on and there will be more to follow. In our world a lot of movement and budget commitments happen Nov, Dec and sometimes even into Jan. This isn't exclusive to MLF. It happens to all leagues, anglers and properties on a consistent basis. Sponsors move in and out and budgets and priorities change constantly.

Well, might as well throw in my $.02. From my guestimates from the beginning MLF hasnt been about personal sponsors. They be always wanted sponsors to go in on the whole deal and let MLF distribute the money thru payouts or whatever else they have. That coupled with the fact that sponsors recognize that these guys aren't having to pay entries. As a sponsor when an organization openly admits they want non endemics, will not show personal sponsors on the cops, etc, I would negotiate different contracts too. So I'm not surprised when the anglers are losing deals.

since real sponsors of pro fishing were cutting back beforehand could see sponsor dollars getting harder to get because of diluting the pro fishing world. before long you will have the five biggest fish at a real weighin the most fish you can catch in a certain time limit an so on you will have multiple championships like in wwe that 98% of the folks in the US could care less about.

I guess BLat is gonna hang with Martin a bit longer.

Those Opens are going to be loaded with talent.

I am not sure I would equate losing an big and significant endemic such as Rapala, and then as an example, it being replaced by a non-endemic such as Tide laundry detergent, as being considered a net positive gain. But isn’t it your job to spin numbers and statistics into a magical positives for your clients? I do understand how interpreting that kind of thing as such could be beneficial to a pitch deck to show other potential sponsors and it may even improve the bottom line for the stakeholders, but how it’s a net positive in the eye of the angler and fans of, i dunno. I guess everyone needs a soap to wash those jerseys!

On the other hand, how you can spin anglers losing sponsors as being a net positive at the end of the day is another matter, and I am sure there would be some who would beg to differ that it resulted in a gain for them personally. I do think I understand why the anglers who are fishing in the BPT and now FLW pro tours are losing those sponsors, but I will leave that for others to speculate about.

Whos paying you to post all the spam and combat Mark? Why cant you post your full name?

EVERYTHING out there is losing sponsors, Nascar, Drivers, teams you name it. Down to local dirt tracks, sanctioning bodies like IMCA Ump. Heck even event centers are losing their sponsors who paid for naming rights all over the USA... All of these place and entities are searching for NEW any form of sponsorship opportunities.



Jeff Joldersma

There's a lot to unpack here. First, nowhere in my previous statements did I say it was a strategy to replace endemics with non-endemics. There's obviously both across MLF, FLW and BASS and they're all important. No property wants to lose any sponsor regardless of their size. Secondly, we don't believe in magic and as far as I know, neither do our clients.

Now as to why Rapala would vacate one property or another or drop an angler to sponsor another, I can't really answer because I'm not privy to why they're making those decisions. As I mentioned, there's a lot of reasons why brands make strategic decisions/changes. Regardless it's not like the bait category is open at MLF. They have sponsors in that category. Again, that could possibly be a driver for Rapala's decisions but there's no reason for me to speculate on that. Simply too many factors to know for sure. I'll leave the negative prognostication to others.

I wouldn't ever spin an angler losing a sponsor as a positive at any point but it does happen and has happened in this world for decades. Anglers, properties, publishers, TV shows, podcasts, influencers, YouTubers and on and on compete daily for marketing dollars and that's always in play. Anglers specifically can benefit from the league they're aligned with or lose because of it. Again, that's nothing new. This is a part of the life for professional anglers. Now, how that impacts their individual business certainly varies by angler and depends a lot on their other sponsorships and their overall annual earnings before tournament payouts. So, of course, the loss of a sponsor can be catastrophic for some anglers if they don't have an established sponsor base and ability to podium. Life on the Serengeti isn't easy and isn't supposed to be. It takes a lot to win in todays world as a professional angler and that includes both on and off the water.

Point is MLF, FLW and BASS have all won and lost major sponsorships, as well as professional anglers, over the years and they all know how to navigate it. The good news about all of this is the market is going to decide the winners and losers, not you and me talking about it on a forum...

Good discussion.

No doubt! I have think many of these guys will up fishing the TNPFL too, they almost have too.

Not unless they change that name...

Kidding.

98% of us don’t care about WWE, but it’s worth $1 billion. Kind of goes to some of what Mark has been saying in all of these threads.

His numbers (allegedly, but I have no reason to not believe him) show one thing. People on the TFF, who aren’t privy to his data and believe they are the only people who watch fishing shows and support the sport, don’t like it, so it must be true that no bass anglers like it.

I don’t care for WWE and never have, but it’s worth $1 billion as an entity. That’s just a fact, even if I don’t get it and think it’s ridiculous. People here don’t care for the MLF model and prefer the best five and weigh in model, but believe that means no one else could like it or patronize it, either. That’s what Mark is trying to say, I think. Unfortunately, he can’t give the exact data (and I don’t think it would change any minds here anyway) and it seems a lot of guys here can’t grasp that it might succeed even though people here dislike it.

That doesn’t mean it can’t or won’t be successful. Plus, the TFF represents a small number of people who bass fish in the country, let alone the state.

This is my point and I know it's not popular.

A reduction of the overall number of endemic sponsors present on a trail is ultimately bad for the anglers on that trail. Sponsorship diversification is important is so many ways in this scenario. The attempt to run FLW 2.0 from the early days is obvious and you can see how it ended.

Examples:
1) more anglers under the White River Marine umbrella is not as good for the anglers as having several boat companies sponsoring anglers. In other words, almost all Ranger/Nitro and no Skeeter/Yamaha, Vexus, Falcon or Caymas is bad. Also restricting the number of Bullet and Blazer boats on BPT.
2) to many anglers under Strike King is the same situation as above
3) nothing but Lews and Daiwa can not be good - just an example / do not have the details on this one

This will all end up strengthening the BASS organization, it's anglers and bass fishing fans.

You can't argue against the fact that you need a healthy mix of sponsors for sure. Endemic BASS sponsors have navigated that pretty well forever with exclusivity normally only being carved out for non-endemics. The MLF model and business began differently, so there were a lot of brands on the sidelines when the BPT was formed. Many simply didn't see MLF's rise coming and elected not to play there or grab a placeholder. Can't blame either side really and certainly can't blame MLF for being loyal to those who got them to the dance.

BPT gives them more flexibility and with the acquisition of FLW even more and you'll likely see that represent itself in more opportunities for endemics. With that being said, the next time you're watching a MLF or BPT production or on their digital properties I think you'll see a ton of endemic diversity. BASS has always had it and always will.

My two cents is while competition is good for the sport, there's only so many ways brands can split up $1 for marketing purposes and that puts pressure on everyone.

Not for boats

Yep, I get it but that’s not the end of the world and Phoenix just took advantage of FLW.

Neal, I have no idea of your personal boat affiliation and I’m honestly asking. If MLF had exclusivity with say Skeeter/Yamaha would you and others be as up in arms or is this simply a White River Marine and Johnny Morris problem for you? Let’s get to what’s really the underlying issue with everyone’s problem.

Perhaps it’s the “exclusivity” thing in general? Kinda like with space on the jerseys, truck, boat wraps? Are the individual anglers benefiting equally?

You’ll have to ask them. But to be clear they all knew that going in. They’re clearly free to control their own destiny in BPT events.

And it will be interesting to see what happens next year and especially after there contracts expires .

That would be true. Next year the get out of jail fines is reduced by $25k and it appears the planned feeder league is already being gutted. Out of the top 10 in FLW Pro series how many remain committed to staying?

And Mark, those currently in BPT aren’t free to control their own destiny when they or their sponsors are being dictated to.

They signed up to fish there and they did it happily. Did you pay attention last year when all 80 of them made their announcements? They’re not hostages. You guys act like they’re trapped. If more leave they leave if they don’t they don’t. What’s the point of this exercise? The free market created this and the free market will decide its outcome.

Simple deal really.

It’s got comical that you have to get on here and defend ever remark that is made of Mo Little Fish bunch .

It’s called a discussion and if someone’s addressing me I’m happy to reply. No less comical than it bothering you enough to elicit your retort huh Slim?

Yes, they all signed up, and likely did so happily based on what they were told and what was implied at the time and in the sales pitches they received. But I think the perception is a lot has changed since that point within the system they signed up for. Based on anecdotal information that’s been made public both directly and anonymously by anglers themselves through others they have purportedly spoken to, it seems there are several that are not so happy now. Them not being held hostage or trapped would be a subjective view based on what side of matter one may be on. I would opine that having a $25k per year buyout clause is trapping some into something they would otherwise walk away from. I would have to presume the contracts they signed were pretty broad in scope with great latitude for change or it would have been challenged by now...so essentially they are being held hostage by a contract. It will be interesting to see how those who seemingly feel that way will be able to compose themselves for a long season that’s made primarily for TV and if it’s worth it and to MLF’s benefit to leverage their legal weight to keep unhappy anglers. That is something that will be interesting to watch play out and see how many PR issues arise from it.

It’s true the free market created this and it will decide its outcome. I just think outcome could be better defined and predictable if the people within were actually happy. Personally I think many of the sponsors are very much aware of the instability of angler satisfaction that’s starting to show through the cloak of secrecy and are taking a wait and see attitude. It’s funny how the free market works when an entity doesn’t pay enough attention to, and foster good will with the assets one arguably could say is the key driver for incoming revenue; the anglers themselves.

Mark, the answer is "yes", I would have the same concerns with Yamaha/Skeeter if they received the same level of exclusivity as WRM has gotten. My issue with WRM & Johnny is that they have too much control over the entire industry from lure manufacturers to boats to competitive fishing and then the new start up companies, anglers, fans & retail customers get screwed. It is not complicated - just anti-monopoly.

And yes, I know the BASS story/history all to well. Two wrongs does not make it right.

These are all great points. Here’s my final thoughts on this thread..

First the organization as a whole is listening to all feedback and they are communicating internally and externally. That includes, ownership, executive team, anglers and sponsors. That’s not always visible but it’s always happening. They’re operating what is essentially a startup and that’s not always going to be perfect. Change is constant in our world and this will be no different.

Lastly and this is THE punchline. You are NEVER going to get 80 anglers at any level to agree 100% and to be completely happy. There’s too many moving parts and too many factors impacting each of them. Different stages in their career, different levels of income earned, different abilities, different sponsorships, etc. They simply don’t make decisions the same and you’re going to have anglers flow in and out. It’s always been this way. The MLF anglers have a vote and ability to impact the league and if they can’t make it work, then they’re a part of the problem. I believe they’ll figure out something the “majority” is happy with.

That also includes sponsors and a fan base. Which is an even greater moving target. They’re navigating all of this and some of it is great and some of it will require adjustments.

I’m done on the thread and appreciate the dialogue.

The market IS going to decide the winners and losers as I’ve said. We shall see.

just finished watching the latest redcrest elimination round on the discovery channel.....I've been following the debate on this thread and couple things come to mind after watching the latest 2 hour episode on the discovery channel.......#1 was the 2 hour length and the number of non endemic sponsors that apparently believe in spending the advertising dollars on a bass fishing show....#2 was the number of anglers that got close up coverage including showing plainly their sponsors even their boats and motors...they also allowed them to mention what baits they were using...

sharing the revenue from television coverage is what enabled major league baseball and NFL football players to quit their part time off season jobs and have huge salary increases.... while fishermen will never receive anywhere near the compensation stick and ball players do,expanding the TV coverage to 850 hours and the growing popularity of high school/college fishing sure indicates a bright future...

Without watching the show again, name all the non-emdemic sponsors that you saw.

Best reaction I've heard about the show came from my SIL Saturday. He's an every species fisherman and not really into bass fishing or tournament fishing. After about 30 minutes of watching he turned and ask, " do they ever catch any big ones " ? I could tell he was getting bored watching professional bass fisherman catching a lot of 1-2 lb. fish so I changed channels. Besides, I had no legit answer to his question.

Any word on some big names like Skeeter and Johnson outdoors sending their anglers breach of contract letters and telling them to vacate MLF? Seems some sponsors don't think they are getting a fair shake and represented equally on MLF which is pretty interesting because that's all those guys talked about when starting bpt.

First, That’s kind of like just now watching last years NFL AFC/NFC wild card games. Do you think the advertisers you would see while watching those months ago prerecorded games on TV are sponsors of the NFL and it’s live games?

Second, do you think the anglers are salaried, like just about all other professional sports players, or they are getting any portion of the ad or merchandise revenue that’s generated by them being shown doing their thing tournament fishing on the discovery channel, outdoor channel, etc... using the talent and personality they have to put on a show? I don’t think these guys are getting much outside of individual winnings in tournaments, or some chump change (comparatively) for placement of a logo on a jersey, boat, or truck... while also at same time being obligated to make themselves available to do some other form of sales/marketing tasks, like photo shoots, media interview, working booths in trade shows, etc...

Can you name any other professional sports that have a TV and other significant media presentation that don’t pay their participants accordingly that, if it wasn’t for them, there would be no TV or other media?

The only people who are seemingly are getting paid appropriately in professional fishing are the owners, shareholders, and producers of the media products that are being generated.

I don’t know about that, but it’s been reported that several BPT anglers are losing long time sponsors. And that’s what I could see any number of endemic angler specific sponsors doing, just dropping the angler. One can only speculate as to exact reasons, but it’s not too hard to see a correlation of sponsor loss and lack of visibility or the reported “exclusivity” type conflicts. Until sponsors themselves come out and publicly say they are forgoing sponsorship for any angler in BPT for such and such reason, I suspect the general public won’t get much more than hearsay from those who talk about it in their industry reporting. The industry is too small for anglers to bad mouth or criticize sponsors who vacate anglers, but IMHO it’s not to small for sponsors to publicly criticize tournament organizers. Some industry insiders such as Luke Dunkin have alluded to the simmering issues, but details are vague.

I'm surprised they haven't had a come apart over Ott's show, " The Hunt for Monster Bass". How dare him.

""The only people who are seemingly are getting paid appropriately in professional fishing are the owners, shareholders, and producers of the media products that are being generated.""

I think you just named the primary reason 80 of the top[ pro fishermen decided to leave BASS...they were tired of paying entry fees and fishing for their own money plus apparently no one at BASS or FLW had the foresight to expand the TV coverage and take advantage of the need for outdoor sports programming especially in view of the exploding growth of high school and college bass fishing.....
I think you can go further and say in a few years that today's high school and college fishermen are going to look back and thank Boyd Duckett and several others for expanding and growing the sport that provided them opportunities to have a lucrative fishing career without having to rely on family money to fish professionally....

fishermen have always fished for their own money the reason they jumped to the small fish league they were unhappy about the amount that was taken to operate BASS.

Yeah, that’s pretty funny. ESPN threw money at fishing on TV and realized, it was a waste of money. In a few years, they will still be where they were. Do you remember when FLW had the big non-endemic sponsors??? Nothing has changed, fishing is small time. Quit drinking the kool-aid, there was only 1 reason why Duckett & Klein made a new tour and it wasn’t about bettering the “sport”.

apparently you haven't been on a lake recently where 150-400 boats were competing in a high school or college tournament.....it's happening at every lake in my area and I'm told high school/college growth is exploding in many other states as well.....
not sure how big the connection is but many high schools are either dropping football and numbers of kids on football rosters is shrinking to the point where schools are having difficulty fielding teams....

Easy to see that you’re not from around here...

I sure hope those high school and college guidance counselors, when giving career advice to students are making it clear to the students who are tournament bass fishing, that the likelihood of them making a sustainable living in that line of work is slim to none and points them to alternatives that has much better chance of providing a reasonable income. Perhaps the high schools should start extra curricular programs focusing on being a caddy for a PGA pro... where one could easily make 10x the lifetime income of a tournament bass angler without even having the golfing skills of a pro.

Just say’n - until the income inequity between tournament organizers and the ones who actually put on the show is equalized, there won’t be any noticeable organic growth coming out of the high schools and college leagues. There are to many other easier and less expensive options to choose from.

High School Football Participation Is On A Decade-Long Decline
https://www.forbes.com › sites › bobcook › 2019/08/29 › high-school-foo...

Aug 29, 2019 - Texas is the No. 1 state for participation (of course), but its participation-per-school rate is dropping quickly. In 2016-17 it was 153.3; in 2017-18, 135.3; and in 2018-19, 125.6. Meaning, its growth is coming from more schools offering football, not more boys showing up to play at every school.

Forbes...the official football magazine of Texas. Lol. Plenty of kids on the sidelines at every football game I’ve seen this year. Most high schools don’t have fishing teams but they ALL have football programs. But maybe we just need more non-endemic sponsors! Where is Big Money Boyd when you need him!!

as far as guidance counselors giving career advice, the chance of making a living at fishing are probably no different than football,baseball,basketball etc. the point I'm trying to make is the growing popularity of fishing is going to create more fans and participants of the sport.....
not saying this is a good thing because many of our lakes are crowded enough but

Just to be clear, who is “putting on the show” is the tournament organization. Anglers at ANY level are merely participants. Why does any angler believe that any organization whether it’s BASS, MLF, ABA, Bass Champs, Alabama Bass Trail, Media Bass, etc. should operate at a zero profit margin?? These are for profit businesses. Chad Potts isn’t rolling out all the Bass Champs assets here in Texas to “break even”. And that can be said even on a larger scale with BASS and MLF/BPT/FLW.

If anglers want more then shop around to see which trails have best payback, get some sponsors or work on their own social platform.

Who and what are the tournament organizers selling to the sponsors again? Remind us all.

It’s called EXPOSURE or you can go as far to call it a PLATFORM. What do the anglers bring to the table???

Exposure to what? Are they selling the exposure of their brands by saying people will be tuning in to watch a media production that just shows advertisements for products? What is bringing in the eyeballs to give them the exposure the tournament organizers are saying they can deliver?

When you figure that out, you will have figured out who is actually putting on the show.

You’re the guy that gets up to go to restroom during the game just so you don’t miss commercials? You truly believe that anyone would know KVD from Kalamazoo if it weren’t for BASS?? So which came first, the chicken or the egg?? BASS gave KVD a platform to become a fishing star. Same as it did for others before him and is currently for the guys chasing him. Same can be said for FLW and some of their stars. You think they operate on spare change?? How can they possibly afford to publish a magazine, air programming or host events without sponsorship. In fact, tell me a sport that doesn’t sell sponsorship???? You think fishing will end when KVD hangs it up??? NO because the show goes on....

And furthermore, bash the anglers for wearing jerseys that do nothing but promote brands. They’re a walking talking infomercial. If it’s about the “show” have them fish in a wife beater and cutoffs.

Good times. Gonna crank some up Seminole Wind and hit the road....

Adios

You can also attribute the decline in numbers of football athletes per school to a direct increase in the number of highschools. I remember when I went to Marcus “freshman” high school, and was bused to Lewisville high twice a day for football. Now there are at least 3 4-yr high schools in LISD. So, even though there is population growth, the students are spread thinner. This will directly effect the numbers to show a decline, when in fact it is likely the other way around.

The smaller school districts simply cannot fund a viable football program, so that is gonna be a decline due to lack of opportunities.

Every little town high school has a high school bass team. It’s SOMETHING for them to do. It’s not growth....it’s lack of diversity.

Hang on there little cowboy, you are giving Duckett the credit for growth in HS & College fishing? How many MLF affiliated HS & college programs are there right now? Ummmmmm ZERO!

Do you have a clue, how much it cost to fish the FLW, which is the stepping stone into the BPT? No poor boy is dropping $50k-$60k a year to fish that, even many of the current pros can’t pay it.

obvious your reading comprehension is about equal to your ability to see the big picture.....never said nor implied boyd duckett had anything to do with the growth of high school or college fishing...I said plainly he had the ability to recognize the growth of high school and college fishing and realized this would create fans of the sport, a need for TV programming and an opportunity for professional bass fishermen to own their own tournament organization and the profits it generated....

Well aren’t you just bouncing all over the place trying to come up with something that makes sense. First you try the “anglers aren’t making any money”. Yet you can’t explain how they will pay the $50k-$60k a year to fish the FLW, the stepping stone into the BPT.

Then you tried the “MLF is going to grow the sport“, but at the same time, you’re blabbering about all the high school & college growth that you are ALREADY seeing. MLF is not the cause of this growth, yet you want to say their show is the reason because it’s getting more exposure out there..”He had the ability to recognize the growth”.


Then you want to go with “professional fisherman who own the organization”....Nope there’s a few PART owners, 12 if I remember correctly, that would leave 68 without any ownership what so ever. If you really think fishing is going to get big time, then you’re loco. I can see that it’s an awesome adventure, seeing how some wanted out of it and not many of the FLW guys are going to fish FLW again next year.

Did you see where BPS is no longer sponsoring HS fishing through FLW?

didn't see that....they are still listed as high school sponsor on FLW website...

It was covered on latest podcast from Luke Dunkin on his Low Budget Live show.