Lake Fork bad gas question

Just as a disclaimer (I am not making accusations against any location) Just asking a question to see if there may be something to my issue.

On December 20th me and a buddy hit Lake Fork for some fishing. We gassed up and launched at the Minnow Bucket. Almost immediately when idling away from the ramp both me and my buddy noticed a sound coming from the rear of the boat (rattling / knocking) but it was undiscernible and I chalked it up to my Talon vibrating and making noise. I did not notice any performance issues initially so I brushed it off. We ran to Little Caney and fished for a few hours then headed to Glade. On the way to Glade I noticed my RPM’s dipping a bit but again brushed it off since overall the boat seemed fine.

After a couple of hours in Glade I go to leave and while idling out to the boat lane the (knocking / rattling) returned but louder. I placed the motor in neutral and it seemed to quite when not under load so I again assumed it was the Talon bracket vibrating. I jump on pad and make it all of about half a mile and the RPM’s spike, then dip, then spike again and the boat dies. Power head blown. Piston on cylinder #1 came apart and knocked a hole in the block.

This was quite shocking and disappointing being that my 2011 Skeeter ZX225 with a Yamaha HPDI VMAX Series 2 225HP only has 365 hours on it and has been very well maintained. What made it even worse was the warranty expired in June on the power head so I was 6 months past the warranty period.

I reached out to Yamaha to see if I could get some good will assistance since I was only 6 months past the warranty and I have all the maintenance records. The repair shop pulled all the info from the computer and took pictures of the damage. Injectors and all mechanical pumps cleared as operating as designed. Yamaha determined that one of 2 things caused the failure.
1. Bad gas
2. Overheating
I’m 100% certain it wasn’t an overheat as the motor was pumping water out just as it always has and had only been running for 3 – 4 minutes before failure. Plus, I had just had the lower unit serviced a month prior with new impeller installed and the boat had been out several times since with no issue.

Being that the boat had been on the water the day prior with zero issues and the fact that me and my buddy both noticed the strange noise immediately after gassing up and pulling away from the ramp. I have to wonder did I get a load of bad gas? The boat had been ran twice on the previous top off with no issues.

Wondering if anyone had anything similar or heard of anyone having issues with gas from the Minnow Bucket around that time? We have pulled a sample from the tank and have sent off to be tested so I will know for sure in a couple of weeks.

Again, not accusing them just looking to see if anyone else had an issue. May have been just my bad luck or Karma coming around to pay me back for something.

What are you saying was the "bad" with the gas???


Did you have the gas tested in your tank???

Engine overheat will show up on diagnostic report. That will eliminate it down to only one thing left. I've never heard of this happening, but with the way these engines blow, I wouldn't put anything past 'em. Keeping my fingers crossed every day.

So sorry to hear of the problem......hope some good will comes your way.

HPDIs are known to blow cylinder #2 even with good gas.....no way to blame this on gas

Not sure how to put a snip it in but if you read above it states "a sample has been pulled and sent for testing".

Again, I am not saying it WAS definitely bad gas. I am simply looking for feed back to see if anyone else had an issue. If there was bad gas I am sure more people than just me would have been effected. The diagnostic from the engine showed no overheat. Yamaha may have just thrown bad gas out there as a way of shining me off and hoping I would drop my request for good will. That's why I had the sample pulled and sent for testing to either eliminate that or confirm it.

That is actually similar to the experience I had when my Yammy 250 SHO threw two rods and cut the power head in half. Mine ended up being covered under warranty, but like yours they couldn't figure out what caused the failure. The only difference was mine went faster than yours. I ran from Eisenhower to the 377 bridge, fished some, moved up to Buncombe. Everything was fine until I was about to the Preston Peninsula. I lost RPMS, and overheated. Killed it, restarted to check water pressure and the knocking began...

I get gas at the minnow bucket (pump on the water) often and bought gas from there the same week. I ran it through to empty and filled up there 1-2 times since. So far no issues.

If you heard knocking and your RPM’S was going up and down it sounds like a bearing was going out, I had one that did that.

I've gassed up at Minnow Bucket and fished out of there for years and never had a problem with the gas.

Regards,

Bart

What hour mark did you have the high pressure fuel pump replaced or rebuilt?

What hour mark were the Fuel filters replaced all 7 of them

Also common misconception is that if your motor is peeing it’s getting proper water pressure. just because you see it peeing does not mean the proper water pressure is being made, example being you can still have good water pressure and not See it peeing if the Little port is blocked because that port is just a T off the waterline so just because you see it peeing does not mean you have sufficient water pressure

I would think that it would take a couple of miles for the new gas to even have gotten into the motor?

The high pressure fuel pump was replaced at 260 hours and tested at regular intervals since. I had a full service done on the motor at 320 hours (has 365 on it now) which included ALL the filters, new plugs, a compression test, and a fuel pressure test. The boat is equipped with a water pressure gauge and there was no drop off or change in performance there. The engine has been disassembled and there are no issues with any bearings (initially I was thinking the same thing when it locked up). The #1 cylinder's piston came apart at the top and knocked a hole in the block.

This came out of the blue and I am really struggling with what happened. There was nothing on the diagnostic that led to the cause and Yamaha made their call based on the condition of the piston that came apart. Being that it was out of warranty they were not liable to help me anyway but it would have been nice.

What would be even better... would be if I knew that the $7K on a remanded power head I have to shell out was going to be money well spent. And that that I knew 1 year down the road just past warranty period it wouldn't happen again with no explanation as to why.

I just went through the same thing last year. First day on falcon, 600 miles from home. I sold the blown motor to a guy on bbc for 3200 then bought a new 4 stroke.


It’s always something with a boat.

Take it from me. Take your boat to Fun n Sun with the blown motor. Trade it in on a new one. They’ll make you a fair offer on your boat with the blown motor.

It’s a blown motor this year, lower unit next, ect.

Also, Fished all day and an hour before dark it went out. The wind was blowing hard, I was running 38mph and heard it rev up. I went to give it gas and it wouldn’t go any faster so I tturned around and put it on the trailer. Loaded it under power and never heard a knock. Once back at the room I checked the spark plugs. Sure nuff number 2 cylinder was fried.

Yea, I looked at the trade it in option but even if I added in the $7K for the motor the offer was still $10K short what the boat is worth. I was offered 18K for the boat with blow motor. Other than the blown motor my rig is in as clean and well kept as any you will find. Similar boats on here and BBC for between $32K and $39K.

I also wanted the explore the SHO option but the best price I could find was $14,000 and there was a long wait for them.

Hell for $10,000 I could swap it over to a Mercury Pro XS and feel good about it. All my boats with Merc's had between 600 - 1000 hours on them when I sold them and still had great compression and ran like a top.

If you got offered 18k for your boat with blown motor you need to take that and laugh to the bank.

I know several guides that use Minnow Bucket all the time.
I would think if there was any problem at all there would have been something on here
pretty quick...I've only use them for the last 3-4 years since my RV park is right next to them.
Most of my neighbors use them also, and I haven't heard anything about their gas...

Well if it was bad gas it would have been water in the gas and that would still show up in the tank with a sample seen off for testing. I guess if the test doesn't show water then it was just time for the motor to come apart. I guess bad timing. I could see if it was a bunch of water the compression locking it up but would think you should see damage to injectors to. That much water will show up for sure a little would mix to quick for the water to do this.

I wish you the best on getting it fixed to get you fishing again.

just my .02

I just burned a piston on my merc, if it goes lean it will damage a piston, pretty simple.. mine had 140 hours on it, any part in the system can fail...

bad gas is usally water in it, which your filter would have gotten, or if it was bad gas you would have damaged all the pistons

my motor had a piece of debris in the thermostat on the bank that burned a piston

I was 1200 miles from home on falcon and had to cut my trip short, bummer but it is what it is. its fixed now and Im picking it up monday and going back

Yank that motor off and slap a new Honda on there. It comes with a 5 year warranty that you'll never need.

Good looking boat! Is that a 250? What’s your speed on that thing

Funny (well, not funny) how it happens when you are on a destination trip. I also blew a cylinder on a 600 mile trip to Falcon several years ago. I limped in and pulled it to Falcon Lake Tackle where No Weighers did a compression check and sure enough one was blown. I did get lucky in that I found a guy in Shreveport who took it apart, had all 6 re-bored and put it back together again for $2,300. It ran like a scalded azz ape for 2 more years and traded it in (still running great). Pretty happy ending all things considered...

Lucky there, this poor guy has a hole in the block. Won’t be boring and putting it back together

Yes it’s a 250. I couldn’t be happier with it. I didn’t know if the gas gauge worked the first 3 trips.

I considered the Honda option as well but haven't seen any places on line where I could get a quote on one. What did that bad boy set you back? The 4 stroke option really interest me, especially when looking at the warranty side of it. Was there a big weight difference putting the Honda 4 stroke on there?

I was planning on selling the boat this year and looking at a new one before the motor blew. Still considered it but I didn't feel 18K trade was a fair offer for the boat. Swallowing 10K may be fine for some folks but I'm just your average guy with kids and bills. Now with so much money going out to fix I might as well invest a little more and keep it a few more years. The boat itself is in great shape.

THeres a power head for a hpdi on ebay for 4200 not the same year as yours but Id contact him and see if he has one or if it will work.

I understand and feel for you. If you rebuild it might as well keep it for 300 more hours.

As far as warranties Yamaha is doing 5 years right now with Skeeter boats not sure when it runs out. My new boat has warranty till 2023

I'm sorry to hear about your motor. That sucks.

I have bought a TON of gas from the Minnow Bucket over the years, and I've never had a problem.

Just out of curiosity, what brand of oil were you running?

Yama-lube oil and a bottle of Yamaha fuel conditioner with every other tank top off. I'm in the automotive repair field and understand that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Didn't work out in my favor this time but that's life.

I've had bad gas on many trips to Fork. I try to keep it in until the wind is right to make sure I get future invites to fish.