Skunked at LMFR

I made my first legitimate attempt at fly fishing LMFR this weekend and I didn't catch a darn thing. The water was much higher and faster than when I was there last September. I figured with all the rain that was to be expected. Spillway was moving very fast so I didn't see many great spots.

If not obvious, I should point out that I'm a newbie at this. I can cast well enough, found the popular spots, and have an idea of where the fish hangout. I didn't see many fish at all, but there was a guide there who was helping someone pull in quite a few of them. So I'm convinced I was just using the wrong flies / rig / etc.

I was using some flies from TarponFly's recommended list. I looked under rocks but couldn't find any "hatches." I went through many different types of flies (I wish I knew the names so I could tell you.) Pretty much all Orvis flys and TarponFly's Near Deere. I tried to go with what I had that looked like what TarponFly described for May. I used a small bulb strike indicator part of the time about 2' up from the fly.

I would typically get beside the spot where I thought there were fish, but about 10-15' away. Then I'd cast upstream at a 45' angle and have the fly float down near where I thought the fish were. I was careful to keep it floating naturally, by mending, etc. Then I would repeat.

Any thoughts/tips/etc. would be appreciated.

I won't know until about lunch Friday.

I sure hope it's not like you say.....I've put off my trip now twice.

Did you try fishing deeper? 2' from the strike indicator is not very deep in moving water.

In fast water, you may need to add split shot to the leader to get the fly deep enough, quick enough. If you are not catching anything, try "bouncing the fly off the bottom" during the drift.

Good luck!

I tried without the strike indicator and would get stuck on the bottom some. I tried everything. The split shot I have seemed really heavy even though it's the smallest in a normal fishing store. Maybe there are lighter ones for fly fishing.

Ok so the first thing I'll tell you is that 2 feet from the indicator isn't gonna get it done, unless there's a hatch coming off and you know that they're feeding higher in the water column, especially if you were there during high water (which it sounds like you were). When the water's moving fast like that it's really important that you get the flies down, and get them down quickly so that they're bouncing off the bottom by the time they reach the strike zone. What I've always heard is that if you aren't hanging up on bottom occasionally, you aren't deep enough. Most spots at the LMF you need to be at least 5 feet deep, and sometimes even 8 or 9 if you're in a deep hole like the bluffs. Keep adding weight and moving the indicator until you either get hung on bottom or start catching fish. I've only been fly fishing about a year and half now and once I figured out that I needed to get deep, my fish numbers went way up at the LMF. It sounds like you're on the right track fly wise though. That's a pretty good list to start from. In my experience though, at least at the LMF, it's more about presentation than fly selection. "The wrong fly at the right depth will outfish the right fly at the wrong depth." The number one thing though is don't get discouraged. There isn't a fly fisher out there that hasn't been skunked a time or two. Fly fishing is very much an exercise in trial and error. Plus the river is much easier to fish at normal flows. The corp has been releasing water from the floodgates for the last 6 weeks (I think they just stopped though), and it's definitely had an effect on the fishing. Normal flows through the park are 150 CFS and flows when you were there were around 1200 CFS. Also don't be shy about asking people who are catching fish what they are doing. Most people on the river (at least the fly-fishermen) are more than happy to give up some information and help out a fellow angler. If they're really nice they'll even give you one of their secret flies.

One thing that helped my catch ratio was when I started using an attractor. I tie a bright red salmon egg imitation about three feet up from the tip of my leader, then tie on the fly that I think they'll bit - like a tiny zebra midge. My theory is that the bright egg gets them to look in the right area for them to see the fly you really want them to see. Theory could be all wet, but I swear I started catching a lot more fish that way.

I wonder if that's what the guide did. He was using a stone fly, but had something white attached higher. Maybe it was an egg imitation.

Thanks for the posts so far.

That's interesting- is there a decent stone fly population out at LMF?

That's just what I heard, but I don't know enough yet to look at a fly and tell you what it is.

Not keeping your fly on OR close to the bottom is likely 95% of the problem... most of the time...

Are you getting hung up on the bottom? If not, you are not fishing close enough to the bottom.

I agree with what Loyd said about the attractor fly. Egg patterns and San Juan Worms are always good to use as attractors at the LMF. There's such a large and diverse food base in that river that a single size 20 midge is gonna have a tough time standing out among all the naturals that are available, but if it's a foot behind a bright yellow egg or a pink worm, it's gonna get a little more attention. Plus the eggs and worms get bit too. I've probably caught more fish on a pink SJW at the LMF than just about every other fly combined. My go to set up at the LMF is a pink SJW as the point fly, with a small, flashy nymph like a rainbow warrior or flashback pheasant tail as the dropper.

But whatever you're fishing, make sure and get it down.

Dang. I should have come and asked you guys first.

Ok, can you tell me how to attach em? Do I basically tie on a San Juan Worm and leave a long tail, then tie on something else below it? How far apart? 1 foot?

Should I still bother with a strike indicator? These are the ones I'm using. They act a little like bobbers. What about split shot? What is a good weight for fly fishing?

Appreciate the help for a noob!

I've got a few of those Thingamabobbers but I definitely get tired of the crimping they put on my leaders. I've moved to the cheap, stick on oval indicators. The only issue is they're one time use. Also if you have a super heavy rig they may not float very well.

Hayes, a lot of the questions that you asked kind of come down to personal preference. Personally I tie on a San Juan Worm (or whatever my lead fly is) and then tie the dropper directly to the shank of the hook, about a foot to a foot and a half below it. Most people use a clinch knot or improved clinch knot to tie the dropper to the shank of the hook, but I prefer a uni knot. It just seems like a stronger knot to me (I've never been very good at tying clinch knots, so I just don't have much confidence in them). If you're using a san juan worm as the lead fly, you'll need some weight to get it down fast. I think the standard size split shot I use is a number 1 which is like .4 grams maybe? I dunno I just bought a deal of splitshot at the fly shop and it came with like 5 different sizes. I burned through the two biggest sizes pretty quick and found the smaller ones impossible to pinch on. You'll want to get get the weight about a foot from the lead fly. I usually tie a surgeon's knot and attach about a foot of tippet and then my first fly. I'll pinch the shot on right above the surgeon's knot so it can't slide down. You might even try pinching split shot on between the two flies as well. Just experiment with different combinations of flies, weight, and depth until you find the right one. The nice thing about the LMF is that the water is pretty clear, and if you're using a bright pink san juan worm, you should be able to see how it's drifting. If it's taking a lot of time to sink or it's floating behind (upstream) of the indicator, then you need to add more weight.

As far as indicators go, that's another matter of personal preference. I really like the ones you posted because they're easy to adjust and you can hang a LOT of weight from them. They do crimp your leader though. Whatever indicator you use though, I would suggest white, because it's the same color as foam, and shouldn't spook fish whereas a bright yellor or orange indicator might.

I'm going to try the SJ worm next time I go to see how it works for me. Generally I'll use a bead head nymph instead of split shot. The split shot is just about impossible for me to work with when my fingers get cold.

The SJW is a good choice at the LMF, as is the chamois worm which a lot of the texas guys are fishing up there. I'm with you on the split shot, I hate it, especially when it's really cold outside. Unfortunately with a San Juan Worm there's no way around it though. They don't sink very well and I've even tied them on with beadheads and they still suck to get down. I've start using clam shot that you can buy at bass pro (in the baitchunker section). It's heavy enough to get flies like that down, and it's somewhere in between the size of standard fly fishing shot and conventional shot, so it's much easier to actually get on the line.

I've never used clam shot - is it a lot easier to handle? For strike indicators I generally don't use one, but when I do it's the little foam stick on things. I don't mind getting hung up, it doesn't happen so often that it's a real nuisance, just an occasional one. I seem to catch more without an indicator but that could be all in my head. It just seems that the line is easier to spot doing something it shouldn't when there's no indicator on to overcome tiny movements.

Yes much easier to handle. I'd say twice as big as the standard number 1 size fly shot. Here's a link....http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-XPS-Clam-Shot-Weights/product/30031/

Hayes00,
I think I was the guide you saw on the river. Give me a shout next time you are going up and I will see if I can help you out. I am sorry to hear your first trip to the river was not a successful one. Fly fishing is a very in depth experience, and you will learn something new every time you go out on the water.

Tight Lines,
Peter

I have switched to the lightning strike football indicators. They don't crip the line they are easy to move and don't leave gummy residue. And it's a fact if you are fishing nymphs and not getting hung up go deeper. Yes there are some stones on the lmf. Also I too am a big fan of the attractor fly when fishing is tuff only though. Attach a piece of tippit directly to the bend of the hook on the first fly. A lot of guys don't like to get to close to prevent snagging the fish on the bottom fly. But I react so fast it is very seldome I don't connect. I'll go as close as 6 inches to as far as 18-24 in really deep water. Most of the time around 15 inches. Pay attention to your indicator and a bubble on the water it so much as twitches set the hook. They will eat and spit out before you know they were there. First trip my buddy went with me to the white. His son called to see how we were doing he said I've caught a few he has caught a hundred lol. Next morning I started watching and I was like fish fish fish he never saw it. Told him watch the indicator and I say lift hit it. He was shocked what was a fish he kept up the rest of the trip. Also as stated you will learn something every trip I still do today even if it is a suplys presentation change. A good drif on the lmf will get you bit with any number of standard flys. Good luck look forward to more reports.

When the river is normal, I fish the ND's 3.5 ft on average. Right now the water is much higher and I'm fishing almost 5 foot deep. I've only been up there three times since they started letting all that water out and I've done very well. You just have to get your flies down to the bottom and the fish are waiting there to eat it. There are lots of fish still in the river obviously. Last week I was there we caught over 15 fish over 20 inches. We used Near Deers, pink eggs, pink or red San Juan worms, gray RS2's #22, and some streamers. We did best throwing ND's with a pink egg trailing it. One of the main things that helps, is knowing what the river looked like before the water came up. Fishing the bottom is pretty much imperative right now. The bottom has obviously changed a little bit too. It's definitely time to use split shots. My Near Deer fly is meant to be finished bumping the bottom or no more than 2 to 3 inches off the bottom. The only time I'd be fishing 2 feet under my indicator would be in the Rapids.

Pretty much what everybody else said.... Get it deeper! 5 feet is likely a good start in any kind of moving water. Neer deeres are a great lead fly. Drop anything off of that and you are in business. Eggs, san juans, RS2, midges, soft hackles, etc. I try to have 18" between the attractor and dropper.

Yes, there are stoneflies in the LMF. They have been producing well all spring. Big, too. The local guides have been hammering the big fish on attractor stones. With the high water, san juans of various colors and sizes have worked too. Breeden3 has been guiding up there all winter - but he is getting ready to high tail it to Colorado soon. The guides will share info, but it is also recommended to hire one of them to get started. You learn so much from the pros......

Indicators are a matter of preference. Palsas in slower water seem to work. Thingamabobbers do crimp, but they float high and can drag a trunk full of weight. Some of the really good anglers (Not me) tight line nymphs a lot.

Hire a guide once... have fun!

Jeff makes a really good point. If you're new to fly fishing, hiring a guide can really shorten the learning curve and also a good way to make sure that you do catch some fish. Any of the guides at Beaver's Bend Fly shop are a good start. I've heard Tarponfly is pretty good too, at least judging from the all pictures he puts up. Rob and Jenny Woodruff are also really reputable guide on the LMF. I did a half day with Peter a couple weeks ago and he had my gf (who had never fly fished before) catching fish within 30 minutes. I also learned a whole lot from that trip. The nice thing about a guide is that it alleviates that feeling of self doubt that creeps in when you're new to an area, or the sport in general and you aren't catching fish. You start wondering, am I in the right spot? Am I using the right fly? What am I doing wrong? At least if you're with a guide and you're not catching anything, it's probably because they just aren't biting that day.

I took a guy who had never fly fished until this weekend.

He didn't fish much, but I sort of felt like I got him on the right track to roll cast, ect.

I just needed a guide to tie his flies on....I would get him rigged up and I would walk away, look back and he was hung up. I retied 3 times in 30 mins. I never got to fish. He felt bad and didn't ask again.

A guide would have done him wonders....he would most likely be hooked for life, but now as it stands....who knows his lasting impression of it! I need to ask! LOL!

Going up there next sunday to wednesday, got some tips from some good people and am going to give it a try, Not expecting much, Might hire a guide if I get there and feel lost or can not figure it out. They will probly be booked up. If any one is going out there next Sunday to Wednesday send me a PM and maybe we can hook up. I have fly fished in the creeks here but this is my first foray into the LMFR

I'm headed back up there again in early November. (Hard to get time away with a wife and 3 little kids). I just reread this thread again to write down all of the great tips! If it doesn't work out this fall I'll probably save up for a guide in the Spring. Looking forward to it!

I've only fished it a few times and I've only managed a few trout with my fly rod. I had luck with a black gnat as well as the previously mentioned flies. I did notice a LOT of san juan worms hung in trees in the area. I didn't try one previously but I will when I go later this month.

Check the video we posted on Newbie thread... at 1:06 is the fishing fly that worked for us yesterday.

Not sure what it's called. Also, see the latter part of the video that shows the trout lurking in the area we fished! Yesterday's Video.

Hope it helps!

Drop the indicator and fish the eddy with a tight line..... the fish were stacked up looking almost directly at the rockpile according to the video. Kinda looks like the flies were drifting left to right and you needed the opposite.

Great video! Love vids of the new river. Cooler weather, rehab for the knee, and some repairs to my 4 wt and I will be back!

GJ

Thanks for the tips Golfer Jeff! Was a tough day.

We fished with an indicator, without an indicator, when we used the indicator we changed depths from 4' to 9'+ (was using a 9' leader with a 1' tippet), tried several drifts from left to right, right to left, straight drifts that went with the current as well as swinging the fly.

Several times they started feeding on something close to the surface (not on the surface). When that happened, we got a few strikes at the Rainbow Warrior fished along seam where the fast water and the pool meet.

They looked and turned away at San Juan Worms, Near Deere (Olive, Orange, White), one went for a Y2k and then it was back to looks and turn aways. No interest in Red, Black, or White Midges. No interest in GRHEN, Prince Nymphs, or Pheasant Tail Nymphs. No interest in Soft Hackles... fishing flies used ranged from Size 14-20.

Only fished two spots that day... the one in the video and the pool across from it (~ hour). Water was clear, so we could see the fish reacting to our presentation.

Normally, the day starts at Spillway Creek and ends at the Evening Hole. This round yours truly became obsessed with catching something in that pool.

Tough day but still lots of fun. Cannot wait to go back for more fun!

PS: Learned from another fisherman the Pink Near Deere with a Zebra Midge Trailer worked for him as well as RS2! Murphy's Law at it again; no Pink Near Deere or RS2s in my fly box. If there were, I would have tried them too!

Help me understand where the access is to Spillway Creek. Do you park in that small area and then walk down that long ramp that is chained off? Or do you fish from the bank near the dam? Thanks

There are two parking areas (really one, but the 2nd one is small ~ 2 cars, guides normally park there) that have access down to the spillway. You can see one of them (kinda) here.

Edit: You can see 1 car (likely a guides car) parked at the 2nd area here.

Or you can park all the way downstream at the former cold hole bridge or nature trail parking lot and work upstream. Lots of great water. Spillway is more treacherous than prior to the flood, but I have heard some good things about the fish. Lots of holdovers.