Loop or Nail Knot

Which do you guys use to connect leader to fly line, and why? I don't have very much confidence in the loop to loop connection strength... so I use a simple nail knot, but it eats away my fly line

If the fly line comes with a built in loop, I use that. If not, I build my own double catch loops out of braided mono and use a nail knot to secure that to the fly line.

http://www.danblanton.com/gettinglooped.html

Before I started using the braided loops, I would take a heavy piece of mono and nail knot it to the fly line and then tie a perfection loop in the mono. Using heavier mono prevents the "hinge" effect.

If you don't want to whip up your own braided loops, I think Robin was selling them once upon a time.

I use braided loops now, but I used to use a real simple connection. Here's a drawing


Instructions: Tie an overhand knot in the end of the fly line (green), a perfection loop in the butt end of the leader (red). Run the end of the fly line up through the loop and wrap under. Take the end of the fly line and tuck it between the top of the loop and the and the part of the fly line between where it came up through the loop and wrapped back under. Pull tight, the overhand knot prevents the whole thing from coming unravelled. Never had this fail on me.

I won't buy a fly line any more that doesn't have a loop. It's so much easier, and its one less knot for me to mess up.

I used to use a nail knot. Went on a guided fishing trip in Yellowstone in '06 and noticed the guide used the loop system, just hand tied loops. Very convenient, because you can easily change leaders, plus nothing extra to buy or have on hand. And you can tie loops with old eyes in the wind, low light, fast. Try that with a nail knot. Figured if it was good enough for the guides and since I wasn't fishing for marlin with Ernest Hemingway, it was good enough for me. Have used double loops ever since, though I do like the streamlined look of a nail knot. And I tie a bowline knot in my loops, not an overhand knot. Haven't tried(bought) the braided loop yet.

The loops seem really complicated If the fly line comes with a loop, and the leader comes with a loop can you just attach the two without having to strip/tie anything? Also, Why cant you just tie a surgeon's loop with the fly line and a perfection loop on the leader and attach? <-- that was my first fly rig ever.

Albright knot for fly line to leader. Loop to loop (perfection) for leader to tippet. (10lb mono for me.)

Woah, never thought of that. Then you don't have to replace your leader very often

Whatever works...from the previous, there isn't a common approach.

Those will work, the only issue might be getting the bigger knots back through the tip top guide without hanging up. That's the biggest advantage of the nail knot or the braided mono loops. Some folks even use a flexible adhesive to coat their knots to make them that much slicker going through the guides.

Part of the fun of this weird little sport is trying different setups and seeing what you like and what you don't. It's also a great reason to go fishing with new folks now and again to see what they do differently.

If the line has a loop, I leave it on. Otherwise I nail knot some appropriately weighted Amnesia to the line.

With lighter line weights, I use the Dave Whitlock/Joe Robinson knotless system, using a needle through the center of the fly line to insert the butt of the leader, then Zap-a-gap to hold the butt end of the leader in the fly line. In that way, the connection passes easily through the guides. It's especially good when using shorter rods and longer leaders.

I make loops by folding the line over it self and using 8" of backing to make 3-4 duncan or uni knots and then loop to loop after that. I do the same thing for backing to fly line and fly line to leader. I can change a line in about 2 mins if I need to. It seems to hold up pretty well to saltwater fish.

I use a similar system for my shooting head line to what scout details above with the exception of using the braided mono loops instead of the looped fly line. The trick to that one for that one if you haven't seen it before is to leave one or both loops large enough to pull the entire reel through to speed the switch.

I was doing a little knot surfing and came across a site I hadn't seen before that some of you might get something out of as well.

http://myweb.cableone.net/stairway/index_flyfishingknots.html

The extra knot on top of the animated Albright knot near the top of the page is something I hadn't seen before, but that is pretty interesting.

Double catch braided loops are so simple and easy to make and install that I would NEVER use any thing else.
I hate nail knots after I had a monster King strip the coating from my fly line.
If you don't want to make your own, buy them from Robin - it took only about five minutes to teach him but he's a quick learner ...

Hey, I can whip a few up for you. Check your PM inbox.

Shameless self promotion! Where's a moderator when you need one?

Just kidding, Robin. Don't forget the kickbacks for George and I.

i am shamelessly administering myself!

Come see the violence inherent in the system. HELP! HELP! Robin's bein' oppressed!

HEY! HEY! HEY! This is a FAMILY SITE! Behave yourself!

(And stay outta that corner!)

Kirk

The thought of Robin providing himself with adult supervision is kinda scary.

I do the same thing except with a bimini twist underneath the knot I use to slip the reel through, apparently your suppose to double you backing for the loop to loop when using gel spun otherwise the backing will cut right through the fly line. Or at least that's what I've been told.

Will these work!? I just found them and they look pretty good! http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?...subcat_id=24333

I would NOT trust those. I haven't specifically seen the Orvis braided loops, but the others that I have seen that were commercially sold were only single catch loops. One of those came apart in my hands just looking at it. That's not something I want to rely on in the heat of fishy battle.

If you decide to go the braided loops route, hit up Robin. He'll treat you right and get you something that will work. They're also extremely easy to build yourself, if you're so inclined.

Ok, thanks for the heads up. How can I tell the differenece between double and single catch? I was just wondering about those though,
I found e'm while looking through the orvis clearance page.

if they are commercially made, they are single catch

get some from
Robin or Dusty or somebody else that makes them...NOTE: I use the commercially made ones (cortland last time) and have never had a problem

I used a commercial one and had to pick up my 7 wt to retrieve my leader and fly that my 5 wt delivered to the lake sans fly line. I made the mistake of following the instructions and using the heat shrink that came with them. After I got it all back together I nail knotted some mono on the line end of the loop and haven't had an issue since.

Easy to "spin" bobbin and thread around frayed end and secure - coat with goop or pliobond.
Can do it quicker than explain it ...

Basically the way the whole deal works is that the braided mono acts like a Chinese finger trap. When you push inward on it, that causes the braids to open, when you pull the ends away from each other, that closes the braids tightly. Single or double catch refers to the number of times that the mono is pulled through itself to form the loop. A double catch loop still only has one loop, it's just pulled back through itself twice, meaning that there is less chance of it working its way back through the braid. This too is one of those easier to see than explain deals.

Here's a link with some pictures that may explain it better.
http://www.flyfishsaltwaters.com/building_braided_loops.htm

In any conversation regarding fly line/leader connections Joe Robinson's Zap-A-Gap splice needs to be in the mix. Granted, it's not something you do on the water, but it is the smoothest and incredibly strong connection between the two.

Remember the blood knot if you need to change leaders on the water - easiest, lightest and smoothest connection between to butt sections (large diameter line).

What is the largest fly line you would use this method?
I have never tried it but I'm not a small stream fly fisherman.

I've jumped Tarpon on a 12wts. You are able to splice only a butt section by using a razor to taper one end to thread the eye of the needle.

I guess I use it mostly on my redfish and trout rigs.

My highest respect Sir - you are a braver man than I - I watched Dave Whitlock make this connection and I would never try it unless tested with a dead weight.

Thank you, but trust me as a fellow tarpon chaser - I did it fresh and tested it VERY well. I do not recommend it for tarpon or anything that will test your equipment that hard. Sticking it's use to reds and freshwater trout.

Dave Whitlock taught me that Zap-a-Gap splice himself when my family and I visited his place in Oklahoma in late 2008 for my 60th birthday. I use it quite often, but never on anything larger than a five weight line.