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#7103190 - 01/28/12 10:30 AM Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again
Tim Cook Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 07/17/03
Posts: 1403
Loc: San Marcos,Texas, USA
Here is an update on a recent illegal stump cutting incident on Lake Conroe. Please contact SJRA if you saw anything.

http://angleradvocate.blogspot.com/2012/01/wildlife-draws-stick-at-conroe-again.html


Edited by Tim Cook (01/28/12 10:30 AM)
_________________________
Tim Cook
State Conservation Director
Texas B.A.S.S. Federation Nation
http://www.texasbassonline.com/
tim@cookssharpening.com
http://angleradvocate.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/MrBass78

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#7103287 - 01/28/12 10:53 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
SuperG Offline
Angler

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 349
Loc: Burleson, TX.
Those illegal stump cutters sure aren't very bright.
_________________________
SuperG ~ 2002 Ranger 520vx Comanche ~ Mercury 225 EFI

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#7103302 - 01/28/12 10:56 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
Eric Gandy Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 2527
Loc: Allen, TX, 75002
Anyone know if Joe Don Setina has lakefront property down there?
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#7103305 - 01/28/12 10:58 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Eric Gandy]
RedRanger Offline
burro desagradable

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 13997
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Originally Posted By: Eric Gandy
Anyone know if Joe Don Setina has lakefront property down there?


Oh so funny

Best one liner I seen on this forum in recent memory..
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http://www.mytxplumber.com/ 972-313-4659

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#7103307 - 01/28/12 10:59 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
B_Thomas Offline
Angler

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 362
Loc: Union Grove, TX
WHo is he? What he do?
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Wish All Fair Weather And Tight Lines!
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#7103331 - 01/28/12 11:09 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: B_Thomas]
Eric Gandy Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 2527
Loc: Allen, TX, 75002
Originally Posted By: B_Thomas
WHo is he? What he do?


he cleared alot of timber on Bob Sandlin in front of the property he was developing to raise property value.
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#7103348 - 01/28/12 11:14 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Eric Gandy]
RedRanger Offline
burro desagradable

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 13997
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Originally Posted By: Eric Gandy
Originally Posted By: B_Thomas
WHo is he? What he do?


he cleared alot of timber on Bob Sandlin in front of the property he was developing to raise property value.


And I mean alot, Around monticello cove on Sandlin

I would estimate about 30 acres of timber. Seems like he was able to walk the charges.

TPWD should of yanked his fishing licenses for that stunt...
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http://www.mytxplumber.com/ 972-313-4659

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#7103363 - 01/28/12 11:18 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
RedRanger Offline
burro desagradable

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 13997
Loc: Frisco, Texas
This was back in 2007.

http://www.dailytribune.net/articles/2007/06/06/news/01.txt

An untrained eye would think nothing of the hundreds of tree stumps barely protruding from the calm waters in Lake Bob Sandlin's Monticello Cove.

From the lake's shoreline, the stumps - which once provided fish with food and cover - are visible if someone knows what to look for. That's not the case for boats approaching the shallow fishermen's haven, where the stumps often served as a precaution.

In February of this year, Joe Don Setina allegedly took it upon himself to trespass onto the dry lakebed and into Lake Bob Sandlin, both owned by the Titus County Fresh Water Supply District, to cut down hundreds of trees across nearly 40 acres of the cove, located just west of the Monticello Lake dam on Lake Bob Sandlin.

He surrendered to the Camp County Sheriff's Office last month, was arrested, and charged with the first degree felony of criminal mischief.

Monetary damage to the lake is estimated at more than $200,000 according to a complaint filed by Texas Ranger Steve Boyd.

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But damage to the fishing habitat, District Executive Director Tommy Spruill said, is irreversible.

"This can't be repaired. There's no repairing something like this," Spruill said. "Once it's gone, it's gone."

Three-quarters of the trees surrounding the cove were cut. One side was left in its natural state.

The district learned of the cut trees in February after a man, who had just visited the cove, reported the damage.


Questions are now floating as abundantly as the sawed-off trees across the cove.

When were the trees cut down and how did Setina allegedly manage to saw hundreds of trees down to the stump, while in the water, without being seen?

The other question - why?

Attempts to reach Setina were unsuccessful.


But perhaps the biggest question is what will be the long-term damage to the lake?

The trees served several purposes, many providing their own ecosystem to fish. The cove, for several decades, has been left in its natural state to provide structure and food for smaller fish.

"The little fish, especially, have to be around structure to survive long enough to become big fish," Spruill said. "And of course, the big fish go into areas like that to spawn and lay their eggs. It takes all kinds of terrain within a lake to have a proper lake ecosystem."

The ongoing drought has caused the lake level to drop more than seven feet below normal. At normal levels, the trees would have protruded anywhere from a few inches to up to 10 feet above the water.

Now, when levels return to normal, the stumps are expected to be submerged in the lake.

Even more of a current concern is the fact that the dead trees were left floating in the cove.

Although Spruill cannot comment on the ongoing investigation, he did say the cove has been closed due to safety concerns. The floating timber could cause problems to boat motors and people.

The trees, Spruill added, also acted as a wave bumper.

Erosion, one of the biggest enemies of lakes, sends sedimentation into the main lake and overtime works to fill up the lake.

The stumps acted as a bumper for wave action.

"In that particular cove it would have less effect than in some areas, but there's always some wave action up in there when the wind is blowing right," Spruill said.

He noted Setina did not have permission to cut down the trees.

"It's like if I go down to Dellwood Park and decide to cut me some firewood. What do you think the city's going to do?" he asked.

Spruill expects to have high resolution aerial photographs of the cove this week to better see damage.

The district is also talking with environmental representatives to conduct studies.

"The effect on lake will be for several years," he said.

District Attorney Charles Bailey will present the charge to Titus County grand jurors later this month. If indicted, Setina faces five to 99 years, or life in prison
_________________________





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#7103616 - 01/28/12 12:56 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: RedRanger]
Fish'n Cynic Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1577
Loc: Area 51
Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: Eric Gandy
Originally Posted By: B_Thomas
WHo is he? What he do?


he cleared alot of timber on Bob Sandlin in front of the property he was developing to raise property value.


And I mean alot, Around monticello cove on Sandlin

I would estimate about 30 acres of timber. Seems like he was able to walk the charges.

TPWD should of yanked his fishing licenses for that stunt...


RR....I could not agree more. They should have made an example of Mr. Setina. The gall of people like him never ceases to disgust me. Just who does he think he is? He basically destroyed that cove and got away with it in my book. This act of vandalism by him still ticks me off!
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#7105379 - 01/29/12 12:43 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
scooter9o9 Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 38
Whats not being said about lake conroe is the contractors that were allowed to remove a little over 400 stumps also removed "a yet to be determined amount" of stumps on the north end that they were not suppose to cut, like anywhere from 12 to over 100 depending on who you talk to. The funny thing is the governing authorities that authorized this project are calling this project a success. Am i to assume they wanted to remove these "yet to be determined" amount of stumps intentionally per the governing authorities? If not then why would they call it a success? Why is there no mention of this in the report posted in Mr cooks link? Are the governing authorities trying to divert attention away from there actions? It just all seams fishy to me (no pun intended). Fishy enough to warrant a investigation in all parties involved in any stump cutting that took place on any part of the lake. Dont get me wrong the unauthorized stump cutting on the south end in live branch is not right and who ever is responsible needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. IMO So should any one responsible for unauthorized cutting whether it was on the north or the south end of the lake. Even if it turns out to be someone that works for or is working for the governing authorities.
I wish people would quit trying to help the authorities cover up or divert attention away from what is really going on and help expose the truth and let their peers decide for themselves who is really at fault. Unless they themselves are guilty parties in these actions what is the purpose of withholding information from your peers and/or the public?

One other thing, why do they call it stump removal instead of tree removal?? Before you answer look up the words stump and the word tree in the dictionary. Then tell me why they would call it stump removal.
_________________________
www.lakereport.blogspot.com

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#7107200 - 01/29/12 05:55 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: scooter9o9]
Ron Gunter Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 32
"Unless they themselves are guilty parties in these actions what is the purpose of withholding information from your peers and/or the public?"

Are you saying that Tim Cook is guilty of cutting timber on Lake Conroe because you don't think that he has been honest with the information posted on his Advocate blog ?

To quote you on another thread in this forum...

"That almost sounds like a personal attack"

http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...bit#Post7070679

You need to practice what you preach. The information that you are accusing others of witholding, was shared with the owners of your home forum. Why they chose to keep it from your group is a question that you should be asking them.

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#7107699 - 01/29/12 07:57 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Ron Gunter]
spoonr115 Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 5
Loc: Conroe
Originally Posted By: Ron Gunter
"Unless they themselves are guilty parties in these actions what is the purpose of withholding information from your peers and/or the public?"

Are you saying that Tim Cook is guilty of cutting timber on Lake Conroe because you don't think that he has been honest with the information posted on his Advocate blog ?

To quote you on another thread in this forum...

"That almost sounds like a personal attack"

http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...bit#Post7070679

You need to practice what you preach. The information that you are accusing others of witholding, was shared with the owners of your home forum. Why they chose to keep it from your group is a question that you should be asking them.


I am not going to attack or accuse here. I am only going to say what I know. We were promised by many involved at SJRA and TPWD that they had no intentions of clear cutting the main part of the lake north of the 1097 bridge. I had great hopes that Mr. Cook would have taken issue with the damage north of 1097 in his blog. Especially since he is using my recording and my videos to support his point in Live Branch. I truly am glad he has made public that someone needs to be found and put to justice for the dangerous situation created in Live Branch, but I had hoped he would carry his angler advocacy to the north side.

I am very disappointed with all involved with the Lake Conroe Advisory Board that could have stopped this. Lake Conroe is clearly destined to be a play lake unless someone is willing to step up and truly protect the lake.

I can no longer consider Lake Conroe my home town lake until things change, and that saddens me. I will fish there occasionally, but spend most of my time on lakes that are angler friendly.

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#7107753 - 01/29/12 08:06 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
BassAm Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 701
Loc: Spring, TX
I am just glad there are concerned citizens out there outside of government bodies that are concerned about Lake Conroe. A few years ago people would gripe and complain and not do anything about it; now they are more in tune with what goes on with the lake and willing to take an active part. Just remember, cooler heads will prevail.
_________________________


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#7107818 - 01/29/12 08:19 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Ron Gunter]
scooter9o9 Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 38
Originally Posted By: Ron Gunter
"Unless they themselves are guilty parties in these actions what is the purpose of withholding information from your peers and/or the public?"

Are you saying that Tim Cook is guilty of cutting timber on Lake Conroe because you don't think that he has been honest with the information posted on his Advocate blog ?

To quote you on another thread in this forum...

"That almost sounds like a personal attack"

http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...bit#Post7070679

You need to practice what you preach. The information that you are accusing others of witholding, was shared with the owners of your home forum. Why they chose to keep it from your group is a question that you should be asking them.




Actually i was referring to the report posted in Mr cooks blog. If you take the time to go back and read my post you will see i made that reference early on.

Its not my intentions to attack anyone on this forum i was only providing some additional facts not listed in the report posted on Mr Cooks blog. As well as offer my opinion on why someone would leave out these facts. I didnt say Mr Cook was being dishonest with the information posted on his blog. Read my post again and feel free to point out where i said that. As far as i know Mr Cook was no where to be found while the stumps were being cut. So how could i say he was a "guilty party in these actions"?


"""You need to practice what you preach. The information that you are accusing others of witholding, was shared with the owners of your home forum. Why they chose to keep it from your group is a question that you should be asking them."""

Maybe you should not be so quick to assume who i am accusing of withholding information. Why would you assume i was referring to MR Cook? Is he withholding information from his readers?

Im very aware of all the info myself and my home forum has acquired. Just because you and Mr Cook had a meeting with a few people from my home forum doesnt make you the authority on who knows what. It sounds like you are not aware who is who and who knows what on my home forum.
_________________________
www.lakereport.blogspot.com

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#7108325 - 01/29/12 09:48 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Ron Gunter]
randyrandy Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 11
Originally Posted By: Ron Gunter
"Unless they themselves are guilty parties in these actions what is the purpose of withholding information from your peers and/or the public?"

Are you saying that Tim Cook is guilty of cutting timber on Lake Conroe because you don't think that he has been honest with the information posted on his Advocate blog ?

To quote you on another thread in this forum...

"That almost sounds like a personal attack"

http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...bit#Post7070679

You need to practice what you preach. The information that you are accusing others of witholding, was shared with the owners of your home forum. Why they chose to keep it from your group is a question that you should be asking them.


Scooter did not accuse Tim Cook, or name anybody, of cutting any stumps anywhere on Lake Conroe. I know Tim is your friend. I am too. What Scooter is saying is that somebody did. And get this, they did it right under the SJRA building on the dam in Live Branch. How could they not see it happening? It didn't take fifteen minutes to do. It must have taken all day or maybe two. And it must have taken a lot of time to haul away all the tree tops. We don't see the tops on the bottom with side imaging or downscan. However, good pair of binoculars from the SJRA offices could have made out the TX numbers on the boat(s), I checked it out today. Some of the trees cut were better than 15" in diameter. I went out and surveyed the damage myself today. I counted over 50 chainsaw cuts and stopped counting. They are cut at an angle and they are at water level. Go in there fast unsuspecting and you will lose a lower unit. Go in there at idle speed when there is chop on the water and you will impale your hull. It is that bad!

As far as the North end, 12-100 trees were cut that, from what I understand, were not on the list. TPWD acknowledged 12 or possible more. With no live vegetation in the lake now and 400 trees cut (taking between 16'-20' of cover/habitat out of the water column, how can accidently taking even one too many be talked up and bragged about as a success? If this had been a contruction job done by a contractor and an extra wall of your house was accidently taken out....that would not be acceptable, would it. Of course not. And everybody would be offended if the contractors slapped themselves on the back and congratulated themselves calling the project a success. It was reckless, and there was not adequate supervision or no "by accident" trees would have been cut!

As far as somebody withholding information, to date I have never seen a map of the exact trees or their coordinates. I do know several who have asked for them and to my knowledge they never received them. Do you know where I can get a copy of where on the North end they were supposed to stop? Do you know which trees were to be left alone? Do you have the coordinates of the trees that were to be cut and the stopping line? If so, will you please send it to me? I am asking as a long time friend. You know how to get it to me. Thanks.


Edited by randyrandy (01/29/12 11:47 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#7108396 - 01/29/12 10:04 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
Mark Jones Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 120
This is just gross and one more example of a group of individuals with a blatant disregard for that fishery. It's amazing to me that this has been so poorly managed. With all that lake has endured in the last two decades it just makes you wonder how much more it can take. Shame on those involved in this.

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#7108581 - 01/29/12 10:48 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: randyrandy]
Ron Gunter Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 32
RR,

I will send you the requested info via your work email. CT (on your other forum) has had this info in his possession for some time now. He was also copied on the TPWD email summary that listed the damages on the south and north end of the lake.

As far as my view on publicly questioning Tim Cook's blog posting...

I wish people would quit trying to help the authorities cover up or divert attention away from what is really going on and help expose the truth and let their peers decide for themselves who is really at fault. Unless they themselves are guilty parties in these actions what is the purpose of withholding information from your peers and/or the public?

The way that I interpreted this statement, Scooter was pointing out that he believed Tim's post was nothing more than a way to help "cover up" what he believed was negligence by the controlling authorities...and if that was the case, then he must be guilty of the same. If Tim was not targeted with this comment, then I guess my question is "Who is being referred by the word people ?"

Tim Cook has been fighting battles for us anglers for many years. His reputation is not questionable. Unfortunately, I have seen some bring that reputation into question...along with the character of the TPWD staff involved with supervising Lake Conroe. When groups choose to alienate those who can help, then alienation is all that they can expect to receive in return.

I for one hope and pray that the guilty party who cut the stumps in the majority of the Live Branch Creek arm of Lake Conroe gets the book thrown at him. As for the controversy on the north end of the lake...the officials have stated that 12 stumps were removed without approval. 12 stumps, not 100. I do not have the exact location of every stump on Conroe to prove or disprove if (supposed) 88 stumps have been removed up north, and unless someone can show documentation that does prove that, I don't see how sabre-wielding and making accusations will achieve anything.

What we all need to come together on is the fact that legislation needs to be established to protect the standing timber in all of our reservoirs statewide. Every time that we see a period of drought, we have these problems pop up. Lewisville, Bob Sandlin, Dunlap, Livingston, Conroe...we could go on and on. All have had this issue.

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#7108678 - 01/29/12 11:51 PM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
randyrandy Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 11
We can't do anything about drought. The other we can work and improve on. And, prepare for water demand too.

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#7108719 - 01/30/12 12:36 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
randyrandy Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 11
People come to lakes because of location. If we wreck the ecosystem, they won't.

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#7108965 - 01/30/12 07:18 AM Re: Angler Advocate: Wildlife Draws the Short Stick on Conroe Again [Re: Tim Cook]
spoonr115 Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 5
Loc: Conroe
Mr. Gunter,

We have seen all the proposed maps that were provided and what was published in Dockline magazine. None of these included the removal of all trees in the main body of the lake north of the 1097 bridge. They were specific in the goal to remove only trees necessary for safe navigation.

I do know that LCA stated in writing that their funds were not to be used for removal of trees north of 1097 with the exception of those near the bridge. I do know that TBBU still has in writing on their website that they are opposed to removal of woody structure on Lake Conroe. So, it would seem all were not on board with what has taken place.

I also do know that there were easily 100 trees in the main body of the lake north of 1097 easily visible in the last few months. I do know that they are no longer there. You win on the comment I can't prove that. I never took pictures. I NEVER IMAGINED THAT SOMEONE WOULD CUT EVERY SINGLE ONE DOWN!! So, I do not have proof.

Go ahead and defend all you want, but if you are truly familiar with Lake Conroe, then you know the truth and you know full well that what was done north was not on any map that we were ever provided.

It would have been this easy for TPWD, SJRA, and Ben Richardson.
Just say in advance "We intend to remove every tree we can find on the main body of Lake Conroe north of 1097 and south of Point Malibu" Now would that have been so hard? Or would that have brought down a storm on them from anglers that they could not have handled?

We can agree that legislation needs to be in place to protect standing timber in Texas lakes. But until that happens we only have ourselves to fight for our lake when we believe it has been wronged. What has happened to Lake Conroe was wrong both on the north side and the south. I don't care which group did what...the name of the group makes it no less wrong. Lake Conroe was let down again just has it hes been twice with the destruction of vegetation.







Edited by spoonr115 (01/30/12 07:18 AM)

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