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#7101463 - 01/27/12 06:53 PM
Re: Yanks Posada hangs it up
[Re: lvngstonbassmn]
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Extreme Angler
Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 1634
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
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A couple of those rankings that go past 10 also list Posada as one of the greatest ever, 1 site ranks Pudge 6th and posada 12th, If your going to use that site as an accurate statement that Pudge is a Great one, You have to acept posada is on those lists, The ones that go past ten that is.
So how many runs do you deduct because a batter bats 2nd rather than 3rd, or 2nd rather than 1st..i mean Ricky Henderson batted 1st his whole career, 4 additional seasons from Pudge, but has just over 200 RBI Less.
""Yes he is. Its a fact. Not even opinion""
Exactly, Ok, so he is, but Your Excluding another catcher with Similar # on Offense, and although no where as good on Defense, still a great defensive catcher. Posada isnt as good as Pudge, but he was good enough to keep a starting job on the Yankees for 17 years, a team that would just go buy another player without hesitation if he wasnt. My arguement was never Posada was better or Pudge was better, Or whether one was great or not...Its If you classify someone as a great, you have to accept statistically another with good # that are comparable. Pudge was fantastic at throwing runners out, But if you look at Fielding %, Errors, Passed balls...How many steal attempts to make up that high percentage..and Pitchers are at fault many times being slow to the plate.
""The rangers had a pretty good lineup for part of pudges career.""
On paper, Great lineups win something, They make playoffs and hopefully win a Division Series.
To say pudge is in Top 10 all time I no arguement, but someone posted that he wasnt THE greatest ever, Not a chance. You still have to consider although Texas had a bad A$$ catcher, Other teams have catchers that are not as good, but still listed as great ones. This whole topic was about HOF and posada..If a Top 10 of over 1800 catchers deserves in, I would say a Top 25 of 1800 deserves in. Joe mauer is already listed as one of those greatest catchers.
3 or 4 of those sites have Mike piazza ranked ahead of pudge, and 2 others list him just 1 spot behind Pudge. But because your using those sites to prove rankings based on a writer, you are also saying piazza is a better catcher since he ranks higher? I figure since piazza isnt from Texas you will argue that point that he isnt in same league as pudge.
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#7101655 - 01/27/12 07:45 PM
Re: Yanks Posada hangs it up
[Re: WaterLogged]
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Angler
Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 310
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A couple of those rankings that go past 10 also list Posada as one of the greatest ever, 1 site ranks Pudge 6th and posada 12th, If your going to use that site as an accurate statement that Pudge is a Great one, You have to acept posada is on those lists, The ones that go past ten that is.
So how many runs do you deduct because a batter bats 2nd rather than 3rd, or 2nd rather than 1st..i mean Ricky Henderson batted 1st his whole career, 4 additional seasons from Pudge, but has just over 200 RBI Less.
""Yes he is. Its a fact. Not even opinion""
Exactly, Ok, so he is, but Your Excluding another catcher with Similar # on Offense, and although no where as good on Defense, still a great defensive catcher. Posada isnt as good as Pudge, but he was good enough to keep a starting job on the Yankees for 17 years, a team that would just go buy another player without hesitation if he wasnt. My arguement was never Posada was better or Pudge was better, Or whether one was great or not...Its If you classify someone as a great, you have to accept statistically another with good # that are comparable. Pudge was fantastic at throwing runners out, But if you look at Fielding %, Errors, Passed balls...How many steal attempts to make up that high percentage..and Pitchers are at fault many times being slow to the plate.
""The rangers had a pretty good lineup for part of pudges career.""
On paper, Great lineups win something, They make playoffs and hopefully win a Division Series.
To say pudge is in Top 10 all time I no arguement, but someone posted that he wasnt THE greatest ever, Not a chance. You still have to consider although Texas had a bad A$$ catcher, Other teams have catchers that are not as good, but still listed as great ones. This whole topic was about HOF and posada..If a Top 10 of over 1800 catchers deserves in, I would say a Top 25 of 1800 deserves in. Joe mauer is already listed as one of those greatest catchers.
3 or 4 of those sites have Mike piazza ranked ahead of pudge, and 2 others list him just 1 spot behind Pudge. But because your using those sites to prove rankings based on a writer, you are also saying piazza is a better catcher since he ranks higher? I figure since piazza isnt from Texas you will argue that point that he isnt in same league as pudge. No, I don't think Posada is top 25 all time. Piazza is probably the best hitting catcher of all time but he was nowhere near the defensive catcher that Pudge was. Posada made a couple of the lists but that is expected due to the fact that he was on a great Yankee team. If you went and averaged all of the lists together I bet Posada would be around 40, at best. Pudge would probably be 7 or 8. Big difference. And I never said Posada was bad. He was good, I would even say very good, but Pudge was great. And only the great ones should be in the hall of fame.
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#7101670 - 01/27/12 07:50 PM
Re: Yanks Posada hangs it up
[Re: WaterLogged]
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Angler
Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 310
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To say pudge is in Top 10 all time I no arguement,
Great for his era, but not one of the greatest.
Uhhh.. so are you taking this back?
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#7102158 - 01/27/12 09:59 PM
Re: Yanks Posada hangs it up
[Re: bassdude10]
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Extreme Angler
Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 1634
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
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Yes, taking some back, looking now at how many catchers dont have great offensive #.
Its hard to tell, I was going by the lists you posted and some only had 10, but 2 of them went as far as 25, and Posada was on both. Piazza was listed ahead of Pudge, either the list is accurate or it isnt. If its accurate, Pudge is in the Top 10 greatest with piazza being just a bit better and posada still listed among the tops...Or the Lists arent accurate at all, so why post them. You cant have it both ways and single Pudge off those greatest lists as accurate, but say the others arent. This has been the whole battle here, I know Pudge was better...No Question, but some seem to get butt hurt when others are listed as greats too. I know Pudge was exciting to watch, and Posada boring, but look at Every #, not totals based on yerars they played, but averages based on games they playedand your going to find that If 1 is a HOF lock, the other has a pretty good chance of getting in.
While Pudge was a better Defender than Piazza, Piazza wasnt bad defensivly, Offensivly Piazza was the best hitting catcher all time...So why do you say that he wasnt supposed to be ranked where he is? Even as a catcher they are ranked by what they do on both sides, offense and defense. Or was it Because piazza didnt play in Texas where Everything is supposed to be the biggest and the best.
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#7102452 - 01/27/12 11:40 PM
Re: Yanks Posada hangs it up
[Re: WaterLogged]
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Angler
Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 310
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Never said pizza didn't belong on the list. I said he was probably the best hitting catcher of all time so he should definitely be up there. Just depends on if you care more about offense or defense.
And those lists aren't absolute fact, or else they would all be the same, but the common denominator is pudge on every single one of them. And they cant all be wrong.
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#7102488 - 01/27/12 11:50 PM
Re: Yanks Posada hangs it up
[Re: JDavis7873®]
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TFF Guru
Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 23815
Loc: Dallas
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Pudge/Posada comparison makes me laugh.
Pudge is no brainer HOF. The HOF is supposed to be for players who transcended the game, and that people went just to watch. How many times did people go to a Yankees' game just to see Jorge play?
He's good no doubt, but come on, HOF.
That said, when East Coast Media bias is involved, anything is possible.
Like most of his Latin teammates on the Rangers, Pudge was a HEAVY steroid user. When HOF talk comes around, he's going to get dinged.
_________________________
I've got information man! New shite has come to light! -- The Dude 
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#7102502 - 01/27/12 11:56 PM
Re: Yanks Posada hangs it up
[Re: Scagnetti]
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Super Freak
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 50257
Loc: Denton
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Pudge/Posada comparison makes me laugh.
Pudge is no brainer HOF. The HOF is supposed to be for players who transcended the game, and that people went just to watch. How many times did people go to a Yankees' game just to see Jorge play?
He's good no doubt, but come on, HOF.
That said, when East Coast Media bias is involved, anything is possible.
Like most of his Latin teammates on the Rangers, Pudge was a HEAVY steroid user. When HOF talk comes around, he's going to get dinged. You are right, but it doesn't seem as though he has really been too maligned by any of it though. That may all change when it's time to vote.
_________________________
 I got bronchitis. Ain't nobody got time for that.
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#7102511 - 01/28/12 12:03 AM
Re: Yanks Posada hangs it up
[Re: lvngstonbassmn]
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TFF Guru
Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 23815
Loc: Dallas
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No, Pudge has done well.
I've seen some of the great ones in person in my lifetime and I've never seen anybody throw a baseball as hard as Pudge.
_________________________
I've got information man! New shite has come to light! -- The Dude
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