I am in the process of repowering my 22` Champion and was wondering what to go back with. I t currently had a Merc 225 efi Should consider a 4 stroke or 2 stroke ?

4 stroke

2 Stroke.

Diesel

been very happy w/my honda since 04

4 stroke.

No question,,,go four stroke.

Better fuel economy, less smoke and fumes, better lugging power, much quieter, smoother running at low speeds.

After running 2 strokes for 50 years, I switched to a Mercury 4s 75hp and love it.

2 stroke for another year or so till all bugs are worked out of the 4 strokes.

They have had the "bugs' worked out on four strokes years ago. I switched to a four stroke 3 years ago and would never go back. Its just way better any way I look at it.

I guess that is why I see an sho go up in smoke almost every
Tournament. Gooluck

LMAO, ya my SHO blows up at least 3 times a year.

Honestly new technology will always have room for improvement, but I fish as much as anyone and have not had any issues with my SHO.

I think Yamaha has learned and improved a lot since they first came out, but they are still new. But having one with 130+ hours on it, I would say go 4 stroke.

can any one tell me is there any proformance differences on whole shot and top end?

4 stroke

4 stroke is more fuel efficient.

2 stroke has better power to weight ratio (not as heavy for same hp) and requires less regular maintenance.

For a big boat with a big motor, 4 stroke will be a lot cheaper to operate over time.

For a smaller boat, 2 stroke will give much better performance and won't weigh the back end down nearly so much.

If you haven't had both you don't have a dog in the fight. I'm with Doug. I've got 115hrs on mine and zero issues. You can't go wrong with either but after having both I will never go back

If you have a Champ 223 I would put a Merc 300xs on it. I think that boat needs a 300. I use to own one and a 300 pushed at great.

250 sho. Alot of the problems are people caused problems not from the motor malfunctioning. But they did have their problems at first. I know of 9 people that run them that are very good friends and No problems period.

I'd personally go with a 4 stroke Yammy...

Love the smell of a Yammie Two Stroke in the morning , nothing like twisting those RPM's in the afternoon.

250 SHO is hard to beat. The only thing you will miss is the 2 stroke smell. No issues with mine so far and with a 5 year warranty I don't have to worry much. Bought it during their warranty promotion. They may still have it going on.

I own a 250HPDI and I just bought a new boat with a 250 SHO so far I'm happy to have it just put my 7th hour on it.

497# pounds for two stroke OptiMax 225 -- yields 20 percent more miles per gallon and an average of 26 percent greater cruising range than even a competitive 225 hp 4-Stroke-when cruising between 20 and 40 mph. Which translates into better overall fuel economy and fewer stops at the pump.

635 # for the 225 Verado four stroke and almost EXACT gas mileage

Less maintenance required on two stroke , fewer parts, designed for marine power.

More $$$$$$ maintenance for four strokes , more parts, NEVER WAS designed for Marine power - was just a factory work around to meet Federal mandated emissions requirements --

Now you have the REAL story !!!


You can hang more weight on the transom and I suspect a slight loss on top end --


I work on em, too - as a marine mechanic I STILL rate two stroke over fours for reliability -

The ONLY motor really designed as a marine fourstroke from the git go was Suzuki/Honda

Yammy, Bombardier, Mercury fours were as a RESULT of Federal pressure -

Black on back for me ----

Fuel injection is OK as long as motors don't sit much between use and Texas E-10 is making me RICH - E-10 SCRUBS cylinder walls of needed lubrication - best thing for cratered engines since carbon chips and chopper props !!!

Different strokes(so to speak). You're gonna lose a lot of money on a repower. Rebuild the motor if you still got it.

That's entirely dependent on correct prop for your boat, weight distribution and proper trim - both fours and two strokes most efficient WOT is around 5800 to 6000 RPM

And set backs of about six inches will improve ALL boats performance in top end and hole shot -

Mostly its not the motor RPM at shaft that determines hole shot/top end - thats mostly as a result of thrust, slip, clean water delivered at the prop

"I guess that is why I see an sho go up in smoke almost every
Tournament. Gooluck"

Ya right!

No brainer....4 stroke

It is amazing how someone asks a question if you have a difference of opinion some people have to respond by being a smart rear. I saw an SHO go up at Blt on hubbard creek, on at Blt state champ on Rayburn. When the pro xs came out they had problems and the SHO has had some also whether man made or tech made. Give people honest opinions based on facts guys.

Ya opinions are like that anatomy part - Fords or Chevies, Toyotas or Nissans

work on a few and see what really comes into the shop about four to one four strokes cratered over two strokes -

K.I.S.S.

The MAJORITY of $500/1000 dollar repairs are in fuel injection systems on four strokes - they don't like E-10 unless they are run daily --

I guide full time. I have nearly 400 hours on my 4 stroke and it was bought new in June 2011. Not one problem. I run straight unlead fuel in it every day with no additives. I have only seen one of the new 4 strokes with problems out on the lake since then, but have seen a dozen two strokes broken down. There are lots of good motors out there and all makers will have a problem here and there, but I would not worry about crazy rumors when making a purchase. The warranty will cover repairs if you do have a problem either way you go.

I chose a 4 stroke because I was burning about $50 a day in gas and 2stroke oil. I am now running about $20-$25 a day in fuel expenses. Those savings at 25 outing a month makes a boat payment.

If you only fish weekends a few months out of the year, save some $ and go with a 2 stroke. Thats just my opinion.

Matt you point out the crux of the problem - the "average " boater gets out maybe twice a month - this is very hard on ANY engine, then they run hard and get put up wet

Anyone who uses a boat daily has almost zero actual mechanical issues - most of the problems are "operator" error !!

And new year model EFI/DFI two strokes on some manufacturers are just as fuel stingy as a four stroke.

Yes the added cost is the oil -- BUT the trade off is weight

Four stroke is the only way to go in my opinion. If you drive much at all they will save you money in the long run. We run tons of trips and I've learned that four strokes save us money. Just change the fluids and keep adding fuel!
Good luck in your decision.

I have a Zuki 175hp 4S with about 400hrs - no problems so far, knock on wood. Starts every time, no smoke and lean on the gas, couldn't be happier.

My buddy with a 200HPDI, is always adding additives, oil and yearly maintenance.

I change the oil and filter every 50hrs, just like a car and nothing else.

2 stroke, four strokes are for old people...

BAHAHAHA!!!

in my opinion its like comparing a muscle car to an import. do you want to scream on water or save some gas? the choice is up to you...

4 stroke is the way i would go

I think if you don't do regular maintance on any engine you will have trouble. I have an HPDI 200Hp and I have to add stable or the vents will clog because of the Ethanol. That will be 1200 in repairs. I don't know about the 4 stroke but Ethanol is hard on these engines because they built to run straight gas. I guess if the 4 stroke is like your truck or car and you run it all the time it would be alright.

If you want to go fast- 2-stroke

I'm bumpin 80 in my SHO. That's fast enough for me. As I mentioned before, you dont see those that have ran both going back to a 2. Go run them both and then decide. You really cant go wrong either way. I do think the PRO XS is a little faster on top end but there is no comparison on hole shot and mid range power.

If wanna look at another perpective and be evironmentally friendly, then go with 4 stroke. Not here but in California, some green lakes would not allow 2 stroke motor on water.

The last 2 4 strokes I have owned have come apart. Only 2 strokes for me now. Just my .02 worth.

Good Luck and Tight Lines.

http://fishcatchingtravel.com/new-stuff/january-6-2012-coleto-creek/

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but was thinking. Could it be your seeing more 2 strokes broken down is because there are a ton more of them on the water?

Yes, and a lot of them are 1965 models True, but even with the newer motors, I actually know and have friends that are having more problems with 2 strokes than 4 strokes. And this group is pretty evenly split.


The argument that a motor ran every day is not going to break down as much is not valid as well. Trust me, I started in 91, I've had lots of motors. I've had lots of motor problems. I've spent many thousands of dollars talking to lots of outboard mechanics. All modern engines are great. Either choice will be fine in the end. If you are buying a new engine, I have heard of no manufacturers that wont stand behind their warranty.

Why don't you just rebuild what you already have? Since it's not blown it should be a lot cheaper then new.


I've never liked the idea of re-powering an older boat. Your putting a lot of $$ into what isn't worth a 1/3 of the motors cost if that.

Four stroke outboards have been around a lot of years and are bullet proof. What has not been around a long time is a high performance/light weight four stroke...until the Yamaha SHO. That is the "new technology" that appears to "need the bugs worked out". I'm in the market for a new boat right now and have two friends with the SHO and LOVE the performance/economy/silence but still I am afraid to buy one due simply hearing to large a percentage of serious issues on brand new motors. But it is still the future!

fuel injected 4 stroke, put gas and go, fuel injection is head and shoulders above the ancient carb, with out a doubt.
motorcycles and outboards are the last to come in the tech field like cars, theyve barely got fuel injection figured out but they did, cars are now going to cam less engines,(VCT) they use solonoids to open valves and have inlimited cam timing, I bet 4 stroke marine motors will eventually go that way to, some bikes are starting too.
enjoy your 2 stroke, they wont be around much longer tecnology advances, you will never find a carb on a car truck or bike any longer thats old shool.

My 4S will take up to 15% blended Gasoline and my buddy with his Yam 200 HPDI is always Freakn cuz he has to have all this extra Yam Lube for this and that for gas tank - been there, done that.

Sorry Fellas, When I'm on my boat, the only "Smoke" I want to smell is coming from my Ceeeegar !

DID THAT GUY SAY DIESEL? HELL YA!

Pretty good read and some good info.

I keep seeing carbs mentioned, but if you are comparing apples-to-apples, then a 4-stroke "SHO" class engine would compare to a 2-stroke "DFI" engine, no carbs in either picture. Also, the ETEC engines meet or exceed ALL state emissions, and in fact are lower emissions than all but the best 4 strokes on emissions. Don't compare old 2-stroke carbed motors, that I agree is a dead-end road, and is not an apples-to-apples in today's comparisons.

The only clear-cut reason at all to go 4 over 2 is the reduction in headaches of adding oil to 2-strokes at regular intervals.

Otherwise there is no clear-cut reason to choose either of them, on a brand-new 2 or 4, the fuel economy, maintenance costs, reliability, and all other qualities are roughly equal. A similarly rated 2-stroke develops more consistent power and is lighter resulting in slightly better economy, but needs the additional cost of pricier oil, which offsets the slight economy improvement.
The point is, head-to-head, performance wise they each have their strengths and weaknesses, more complex, and heavier, with less hassle, versus simpler, lighter, but have to maintain an oiling system.
Both have filters that need changing, spark plugs, etc.
An ETEC uses 1 gallon of oil per 100 gallons of fuel, and on a typical "cruising" fuel economy of 3-4 MPG, that's going to be several trips out for most people. If it's a big boat with a 50-ish gallon gas tank, that's add a gallon at every other fillup. Not too bad.
Every head-to-head I've seen has had their fuel economies within fractions of an MPG, and most depend on operating range, 2s are better at one range, 4s are better at another, and they cross over here and there, but ultimately on average they end up being something like 3.5 vs 3.4 MPG, negligible differences.

I myself would choose a 2-stroke, if only because that gives me an extra 100# of loading ability in the boat. But the 4-stroke option of "forget about it between oil changes" is nice too, I wouldn't complain to have either option, I just like having less weight on the transom at the end of the day.

I have a 2003 Merc 4-stroke 60hp EFI, best motor I have ever had.

i got the same one but a 2011, the thing fires up as soon as it hears the key turn, talk about quiet, and it runs on fumes

4 Stroke,

I would never go back to 2 stroke.

2 stroke really should be outlawed(for the environment and for the customers satisfaction/benefit)!

ive had both and im going with a 4-stroke from now on. mine is a 140 hp Suzuki and its given me ZERO issues other than a oil filter that decided to leak once. very happy with mine and its gets ran 4-6 days a week.

My "slow" 4 banger did 79.8 mph Saturday, 50 gal of fuel , loaded down heavy tourney load, 2 GROWN men, livewells full!

light load mid 80's , and thats fast enough for me!!

so is the Etec really better then the 4strokes? or just better then the Yammy 4s?

I have a 2 stroke on my Bass Tracker, and a 4 stroke Honda on my Pontoon...
Soon as I can afford it I will repower my Bass Tracker with a 4 Stroke Honda......

Tony has it right. Go with a 2 stroke. Just less hassle and money.

Cheers,

George

Oh god. The e-tec is better than the trolling motor at best