In my never ending search to find something to throw into the nastiest vegetation I can find and have it emerge without bringing the entire weedline back to the boat with it, I came across a pattern called the KDR Rat. It was developed by California Delta guide Kevin Doran to fish the thick mats of vegetation there. If you saw Bass The Movie, you saw his bug at work.

The pattern calls for tying an upside down deerhair bug and finishing it by gluing or epoxying a piece of lead tape to the bottom of the bug, which should make it land with authority and with its hook point up.

I've been intrigued by this pattern for a while now, but just haven't taken the time to lash one together. Here's what I came up with:




For those of you wondering where to get some lead tape, you might want to look in your junk drawer. Have you put in a ceiling fan in the last few years. It wobbles doesn't it? If so, you didn't balance it, so you should have some lead tape that came with it. What's a little wobble in a fan when you can be pounding bass in the weeds?

As soft as the lead is, I think I can do some trimming on the water if necessary to get the right combination of semi-castable and action, Action, ACTION!!!

As you can see, I'm still being subsidized by the American Rubber Skirt Manufacturer's Association, so I used the appropriate material for the legs. Some of you are probably thinking that it's going to sink. I kind of hope it does sink, nice and slow. Think about dragging that thing through some good heavy salad, crawling it up on a lily pad, and letting the legs dangle in the water. A quick twitch and it hops off the pad and into the water for a little diving action. How could that not catch a bass?!?

Even though these usually get tied as frogs, I'd think that it could also be a pretty interesting mouse bug (as the name might suggest).

I actually stacked the deerhair on top of the chenille body, which I hadn't tried before. It really worked well. In fact, I had much less trouble with the hair trying to spin instead of stack in place than I usually do. You never know until you try.

Considering the things that bass really like, that looks like a killer fly. I'm thinking of adding a single loop weed guard and casting it on a 9 wt. or 10 wt. line with a nice heavy leader would really get the job done; maybe help to get a pig out of the salad too. Thoughts?

Well, the whole appeal to me of a bug like this is that it rides hook point up, which reduces the amount of salad you hang on the hook. If you'll look at how I trimmed the head, that is also supposed to reduce the amount of vegetative fouling we would experience. I'm sure it won't be perfect, but I don't know that adding a weedguard will do much more than cost you some hooked fish. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

I really like your legs idea. Wonder if you looped chenille around two halves too split them just a little so that in the water, when still they would gather, and when stripped give a kick like motion

That's an excellent idea, Gib. I'll have to try that and see what it does.

cant wait!

Thanks for the inspiration, I'm gonna have to play with this concept some now. I'm thinking the lead stip may not be needed if a hair bug was just tied "upside down." I can't tell from the pic, is the hook point clear enough to get a good hook set? It almost looks like it's buried in the hair.

Well, JA, that's one of those only time will tell deals. I do think it will benefit from some trimming, but I need to ruminate on that a bit before I attack it with the scissors. Most of what you're seeing is the long hairs covering the hook, but there are a few shorter, stiffer hairs there too.

I think if you just tied it upside down with no weight you'd have a slightly better than 50:50 shot of it landing hook point up, but I also wanted something that would make a good splat when it hit. The ultimate compromise would probably be some epoxy or that Clear Goo stuff to add a bit less weight, but keep a nice smooth keel on it. This also must be pondered further.

That is some darned fine deer hair work and a very cool concept, the skidplate idea looks very practical!

Thanks, Robin, just remember that, like most of my "ideas", these were adapted or just flat-out stolen from somewhere else. There is another design I found on the Fly Tying Forum but I didn't want to get my birthday taken away for posting it.

LOL! Sharing the goodness is a positive thing!

This is where I stole the idea from: http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=41114&st=15&start=15

This is another I need to try: Hells Bay Popper (basically a Gartside Gurgler with a rattle tied on "top" of the hook shank to make it ride hook point up. This is what I was trying to puzzle out when I was working on the one above. Maybe a bit of deer hair as a weed guard is just what this needs? Or maybe a lighter version of what the bass jig makers use?
http://www.orlandooutfitters.com/online-store/product.asp?P_ID=845&strPageHistory=related

That's a great-looking fly. Where do you get the lead tape? It's sticky on one side?

That's where he makes his money on this deal, a bovine-based adhesive that he sells out of the back of his car....

WB, welcome back to the forum. Your contributions have been missed.

The lead tape I had laying around was from a ceiling fan balancing kit and does have adhesive on one side, however I helped it along with a bit of super glue to make sure it stayed put. The gluing is also why I wrapped the whole hook shank with chenille. I figured that I would have better success with the lead tape sticking to it than just deer hair to give it a bit more durability.

Robin, don't be turnin' over my rice bowl, man.

Cool. I already have some hide glue I use for guitar and mandolin building/repair.

I finally got around to tying up a couple of the Hells Bay Hoppers that I referenced above.





Of course I can never leave well enough alone and tie something like I'm supposed to, so I made a few changes. Both examples have the glass rattle on the opposite side of the hookshank from the bend (what was the top, but will now be the bottom). However, while the orange chenille covers the rattle on the top example, the mylar tubing contains the noisemaker on the bottom. I decided to leave the frayed mylar at the front of the bottom one to simulate gills. Because of that, I did not add legs to that version. It's a bit hard to see in either picture, but the chenille on the bottom hopper is olive.

Of course the feather tail was replaced in both cases with spinnerbait skirt, as per my agreement with the Rubber Manufactuers' Association.

I'll be interested to see if the smaller amount of foam on the orange one makes it sit lower in the water or even sink. Both should have a pretty interesting action. I used 1/0 Gamakatsu (HAI!) B10S hooks and, as usual, managed to remind myself how sharp they are. Let's hope some hungry bass tests them as well.

Those look good to me!

Thanks, Kelly.

Nice! I've been tying prototypes forever of hook point up surface flies. I know you've seen this
http://bp1.blogger.com/_OUpT9FEKhgo/SGGvuD4G6sI/AAAAAAAAAGU/muYxVjvbV58/s1600-h/IMGP3584.JPG
I've been working to this design. A lot of them stay hook point up then flip over during the retrieve. Trying to fix that, stay tuned...

Does it spin or just turn over hook point down on the retrieve and stay there as you strip it in?

Spinning isn't so much of a problem when it's in the water as it is when flying through the air! I've begun using a small swivel between the fly line and leader or between the leader and tippet. Sure has made the twisting problem go away!

I've considered that a thousand times, but just never done it. I need to put it into use.

Here are a couple more upside down frogs I tied today, as well as a clouser/streamer deerhair bream thing.


The one I had tied up previously is really working well. I've only gotten one strike on it, but I pulled it out of the fish's mouth before it could connect. Apparently the only time I have cat-like reflexes is when I'm assuring that a popper striking bass can go free.

I've only hung the original on a couple of lilypads and that's when I get in a hurry swimming it under them and not being gentle in extracting it. Going slowly seems to let the deerhair act in its role as a weedguard, while yanking it burries it in the pad.



Our R&D department is nothing if not responsive. Gib suggestion lead to the wave of the future. The orange and yellow frog is the first to feature the Gibb-Style Butt, which will revolutionize the Upside Down Frog Industry.



You'll also notice that there is a bit of lead wire peeking out from the GSB. The lead tape didn't last very long on the original prototype and it seems to work well without it, so I tried wrapping a little lead wire just opposite of the hook barb. We'll see how that works. I also used fewer pieces of skirt on these frogs to see if that improves the castability of this series. I may trim the grey skirt shorter on the 'gill colored one and see how that affects casting.

I also trimmed the hair a bit along the hookshank just in front of the hook point to make sure there was enough relief to allow for a good hookset...I hope.

The streamer thing is something I'm curious to try on floating and sinking line. We'll see if it floats on its own or not. It's another entry in my attempt to find something that will move through the American Pondweed without dragging half the weedbed back to the boat with it. If nothing else, it should push some water.

Hopefully I'll get to test these tomorrow.

Oh these look excellent. Great job!!!

Look good!

Thanks, folks.

my bentback divers are weedless; you can throw them in the surface scum and they'l come out upright

here's the hook and how I bend it; add a few wraps of .25 lead on the lowest part of the inverted hook will help it turn over

Hey, it turned out pretty well! Cool and glad I could suggest

The rest look really good! Cant wait too hear how they turn out.

I picked up some Mustad frog-style hooks from Academy the other day. They have lead added to the back end of the hook.

Going to try some frog designs on them. Trying to imitate a Spro frog, hope it works.

pearow, those are good looking bugs. I think the body shape has a huge amount to do with the bug riding hook point up. I don't know if the lead wire is totally necessary, but I'm going to leave it on for now. Did those hooks come with the kinks in them, or is that part of what you did to them? I've been using regular B10S Gamakatsu (HAI!) stingers on the ones shown above and they've been working well.

Here was a taker from today on the Original Upside Down Frog (accept no substitutes).


It was a good solid hookup in the corner of the mouth.

Gib, the GSB did have a more interesting kicking motion on the prototype. Just wait until those royalties start rolling in!

Fly Rod Yakker, do you know of somewhere online that shows that particular hook you bought? I'd sure like to see them.

the flies are tied on popper hooks which have the bend so the popper head wont turn; theyre mustad 33903 size 2-p-

That's what I was thinking, but I've never used any of those, so I wasn't 100% sure.

I am sans lead tape, I will hit up turner hardware and try my hand at this.

The latest versions that I tested today no gottee the lead tape. In fact, the lead tape fell off the original with no ill effects seen after its departure. I'm just putting a few wraps of lead wire around the hook shank opposite the barb.

Txredraider,

Mustad 37172bln. I got the 1/0, will trim the weedless guard off, and tie a frog pattern with the hook point up.

Mine have a 1/32 oz. lead attachment at the back of the hook, should cause it to land and ride hook point up.

The plan is to spin enough hair to make a frog pattern that looks similar to a Spro frog.

http://www.barlowstackle.com/Mustad-37172BLN-Weedless-P530C97.aspx

I have been workin on one o them too, havent picked a hook yet, leanin towards 5/0 Gama sraight worm hook & heavy mono weed guard

FRY, That's a cool looking hook, but wow they're steep. It is cool that they make one weighted that lightly.

If you're going to clip off the weedguard (which I'm all for), is there any reason that hook would be superior to a standard stinger with some lead wire wrapped at that same spot?

That's almost exactly where I put my lead, by the way. It's nice to do something pretty close to right for a change.

Mike, you're working foam and I'm fighting deerhair. It's a crazy, upside down world lately. That's a damn good looking body and the way you have the legs on it is just awesome. You always give me something new to aspire to with this lashing thing.

I also know that if you go with that 5/0, you'll catch a fish to justify it. I'm looking forward to being jealous of your fish again. I miss it.

Did you pull those legs in with a needle? Also, did you turn the leg flanges/gaskets by hand too?

OK, had to try my hand on an upside down frog. I spin heads and use deerhair for wings and such, but this is only the second popper I've tried to make. Be gentle.
From above

From the front

From behind

Only the fish can pass judgement for sure, but it looks good to me.

Me too!

c'mon, thas not really your second (is it ?), looks good to my eye

Yes, it really is my second one. I tried it out today. It rode hook point up at first, but flipped over after a while. Guess I didn't put enough lead on the hook shaft or didn't get the hair packed tight enough. Oh well.

I didn't use a lot of hair in my versions. I think on the size 1 hooks I used 3 or at most 4 less than pencil sized bundles of hair total and I didn't pack it at all.

You might try trimming the deerhair on the bottom into a V shape when seen from the front. Make it similar to a keel on a boat.

The other thing I'd try on your next one is to leave the deerhair a bit longer in front of the hook to maximize weedlessnessness. When I trimmed mine I sighted from the hook eye to the point and trimmed just above that line.

To make you feel better about the quality of your work, which is very good for no more deerhair than you've worked with, have a look at one of my early bugs.



You know that makes you smile. Keep pluggin'.

That pic reminds me of the scene in finding nemo when the puffer fish (bloat) spooks and swells immediately.

It's a before an after photo for my new fly fishing weight loss program. Not available in stores. As (not) seen on TV.

If you wrap lead wire around the hook shank, you're really not changing the balance of the fly any. The barb side is still the heaviest side, so it will want to flip over and ride hook down.

You might try laying lead wire lengthwise on top of the hook shank, and then wrapping it and gluing it in place before going any further with the fly. If you can get enough weight on the top of the hook shank, you can offset the weight of the hook point and get the hook to balance point up.

A poofy ball of deer hair on the bottom of the hook shank (actually the top when you turn it hook point up) can provide enough buoyancy to keep the hook up if you trim the deer hair REALLY close on the other side. But when it gets wet, it'll flip over.

The best performing fly like this I ever tied had a piece of mono sticking down from the nose hanging down under the belly of the fly. I melted a ball on the end of the mono and crimped on a split shot. It wasn't incredibly pretty, but the fish didn't seem to mind. It would float hook up all day long. It would also kinda suspend when it dove. The rise back to the surface was really slow and wiggly. BAM!!!!!

The main reason I quit using it was that the puff of hair in front of the hook point seemed to cost me a few hook sets here and there. Thinking about it now, it was probably a good tradeoff though. I sure got a LOT of strikes on it with that semi-suspending action.

http://www.idylwilde.com/html/hotness_inline.php?fly_id=4418
New concept, try some patterns like this. That should be weedless, should ride upside down, and looks like an awesome bass fly.

That describes the action I had with this one to a tee. It was the perfect upside down frog for the first 10 - 15 minutes, then it was just a frog that looked funny.



I may have to add a little drop line and split shot and see if that fixes the issue. I'm a little concerned with missed strikes, but I'm thinking I'll connect on some of the strikes I wouldn't be able to get with a normal popper that I can't put in the thicker stuff without hanging up.

i pretty much gave up on topwaters with hook riding point up, like you said, they would get soggy and the balance was gone, but its fun to experiment some, the best I found was a long hook with a bend in it like Pearow's pic

That's the main problem i'm having too. I think foam is the answer but I really don't know how to solve the flipping over in the water problem. I've tied several with deer hair and they definitely don't stay upright for that long.

Gentlemen, I greatly respect all of your opinions with regard to tying flies, however my recent experience with this specific deerhair bug has been different than yours.

I've fished the first all green frog that I posted as well as the bluegill colored one for multiple hours at a time over the last two weeks. No matter how wet or waterlogged they have become, I just haven't seen them turn hook point down.

There is no lead wire wrapped around the hookshank on the green frog and the lead tape on the bottom fell off the first day I fished it. It does have quite a bit more skirt material than the bluegill version.

The bluegill version does have some lead wire around the hookshank (less than 10 wraps) with slightly less skirt material.

I don't know if it is the skirt alone, or the skirt along with how I trimmed those bugs, but they have really been working well for me. I'm not here to sell y'all anything, but I'd urge you to give this idea another try.

which direction a fly points has more to do with the shape and makeup of the fly than what direction the point was going when you put it in your vice.

I did a tutorial for how I've been tying these.

http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...ep_#Post6241037