I tried a kayak at Degray Lake this weekend and had a blast. I have tried canoes before and I never liked the stability. I took out an Islander Fiesta with my 6 year old son and it was perfect. It was very stable and easy to paddle. It was the older light blue model. Now I want one. I will primarily use it just for fun and occasionally fishing (I have a bass boat for that). I am following the other thread �Kayak Recommendations� and learning a lot. They are more expensive than I thought.

One question�.I keep hearing reference to primary and secondary stability. What does that mean?

Maybe I stated it wrong....Is it Initial and final Stability?

When I first got into kayaking a few years ago I had the same question and really didn't understand what it meant even having it explained until I actually got on a kayak.

My first kayak was an older model Ocean kayak scrambler which is only 26" wide and that is fairly narrow with 30" wide being thought of as a wide kayak, and it felt like I was going to flip over just sitting flat in the water. After getting over the initial feeling of tippiness I paddled forward and I noticed that the tippiness went away and I could actually lean into my strokes with a feeling that it was stable where I wouldn't flip over.

Some kayaks have a really good initial stability meaning they feel rock solid on flat water and you can lean past center and feel pretty secure, but when you reach a certain point it will without warning just flip, and there is no turning back once you reach that point of no return, and you will take a swim.

Kayaks with good secondary stability will be more forgiving and allow you to catch, or brace yourself and most of the time with just enough warning that you can save yourself a swim.

Here is a good website that explains hull shapes and is a good article to save and study when shopping for a new kayak.

http://www.topkayaker.net/Articles/Instruction/HullDesign.htm

Primary and secondary stability!

Thanks Jimbo, That helps. I definately want one that feels stable on flat water, but the advantage of the secondary stabilty is good as well. I will read up on the referenced web site. I am just looking for a cheaper one right now and watching craigs list. I want to make sure the familiy is going to put them to use before we spend a lot of money on them.

Craigs list is great as well as trying this site: http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=ef9c38cbce1747f456f3eec1cd91f78a

The guys over on TKF are like the one's here, an they will help you any way they can. A lot of the guys here also contribute over on the TKF site.

You can find some good deals on TKF, and they will work with you a lot of times like meeting you half way if your a reasonable distance away.

Craigs list and buying used is a great way to save money, but you do have to do your homework and know what to look for.

I made a short list of one's I considered met my needs when I was shopping, and that helps a lot.

I'm pretty sure that it usually works like this: good initial stability means less secondary stability, less initial stability means more secondary stability. There are those here who seem to know a lot more about hydrodynmics than me, so I fully expect to be corrected on this!

Here's my take on the stability thing: initial stability is a lot more important for fishing and casual recreational paddling. After you paddle a bit, you begin to develop a good sense of what you and your kayak's limitations are balance-wise. When you 'lose your balance' is when you're in danger of turtling, regardless of how much secondary stability the boat has. Initial stability allows you to better keep that balance.

Anything rentable would be suspect.
I believe you are referring to the Aquasport Islander Festiva. At least that was the closest thing I could find.

http://www.aquasportskayaks.com/askayak/Islander/Festiva.htm

The Festiva blurb.

"You and your friend can hit every party along shore with just a few paddles in the Festiva. It gets you where you are going in a hurry. It's fully stable in the surf and wide open sea, or choppy lake waters. And it's a great platform for diving, snorkeling or swimming."

This may not be the best kayak for your needs. This one is 33 inches wide. You can get adequate stability in a kayak 30 inches wide, if it is designed correctly. The wider the kayak the more you have to reach to paddle.
Most of the kayak adds claim that their kayak is stable, however that is not the same time from kayak to kayak. Stability seems to be over rated unless you don't have enough. When keeping the kayak upright becomes a chore then you don't have enough.

It won't take long for your 6 year old to want a kayak of his own. Then he will want a divorce -).
There is only 1 kayak that I know of that does single and double reasonably well and that would be the OK Malibu Two. You can probably get a trial ride at some of the dealers around here. I think you would find it good ride. Try it both ways though.

You are correct, it was the Aquasport Islander Festiva. I never could spell very well.

From all the information, it sounds like the initial stability is more important for what I may be looking for. I agree, it won't be long before he may want his own. I have seen the pelican kayaks fairly cheap, but I assume you get what you pay for. Craigs list has two for $300 (for both).

The way I had it explained to me was analogized to a bicycle or motorcycle. Say you have a motorcyle w/ very wide tires (good PRIMARY stability). You can ride it pretty slow and it stays upright just fine. But the faster you move the harder it is to control and the more you have to steer wider to get it to respond. Now take a bike w/ narrow tires(SECONDARY stability). It's kinda hard to keep it upright traveling slow. It tends to wobble and what not. But get it moving and it turns into a razor w/ good control. You can lean into turns and control it much more easily.

May not be perfect to physics, but it made pretty good sense to me.

Another thing that comes to mind talking about stability is usually, not always, but usually the kayaks that are the most stable in a fishing kayak, are going to be what they call a wet ride. The term "wet ride" refers to the amount of water that comes up through the scupper holes either under the seat or in the foot wells.

They make scupper plugs that work well preventing water from coming up into the seat from the bottom, but if you splash water in from the paddle or wave action it will not drain and you will sit in water whereas with scupper plugs removed it will drain out while you are paddling.

Again the more stable kayaks tend to have a "wet ride" because the seat is lower or almost even with the water surface keeping your weight low to the water. Raising the seat just inches higher you will notice a loss of stability. It may not be much, but you will notice it.

Some kayaks have a remarkably dry ride, and are stable, but there are so many variables that come into play it will make your head spin trying to figure it all out.

The best way to get all your questions answered is to go to a kayak shop and let them personally fit you to the type of kayak that will work the best for you.

You can take a stab at it in the dark, but you need to read a lot and see what others have said, and don't necessarily take everything as fact, because like I've said everyone is different, and what works for one guy, won't always work for you!