OK, so I move to Cali and am now faced with an interesting "problem." I live two miles from an access gate to the Cali Aquaduct. It's a concrete canal, about 40' across and 30' deep with swift current. I have to get the fly down to the stripers and channel cats that are down there. TxRR suggested this site http://www.danblanton.com/mix_match_tips.html. I like the sound of the system suggested, but was wondering if any of you have experience with it.

Of course, that page led to this one http://www.danblanton.com/gettinglooped.html. I've never used loop to loop connections for anything other than connecting my leader to my line and sometimes connecting sections of my leaders (yeah, I still tie my own tapered leaders), but I've always used perfection loops tied in the leader and a little piece of 20 lb test with a perfection loop nail knotted to the end of my fly line. This "Chinese Thumb Trap" system sounds cool. Anyone use it before?

Yes sir.

http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=31079&highlight=shrink+tubing

I have made mono loop connectors for more than 10 years since Dan Blanton showed me how simple and easy to make.
Never had a failure.

He taught me the mono loop connectors and I taught him how to use EC413 60 degree jig hooks to use on his classic Whistlers and FT Clousers...

Well, guess I can't ask for better input on the braided mono loop connectors! I have seen some of the fish you have posted, if those connectors stand up to them without failure I guess my concern is for naught. Time to go buy some 50 Lb test braided mono and get to practice. They do look a heck of a lot easier than my old nail knotted on chunks of mono. Thanks George!

Now do you think the sink tip system he describes would work in the Cali Aquaduct? He mentions he likes to use a type IV belly with a T-14 tip in fast, deep rivers. Sounds like the aquaduct to me.

You might want to try some of the shooting head lines. I use Jim Tenny's TS series for Stripers. They have a 30 ft. shooting head with a floating running line. You can also build your own line using T-14 and Amnesia. The Teeny lines are easie to use. Other companies make a similar product.

I have ordered Jim Teeny's Dan Martini Striper line. It's the same type of line with and intermediate running line. I'm hoping it will go a deeper faster. Good Luck. I hope you tag a big Striper.

I agree with Scott on the Teeny's.
I first started with the T-200 and 300's and they cast very well, but that was number of years ago so follow his advise on the ingtegrated sinkers.

You will be much more versatile with shooting head systems, once you figure out the running line part.
I hate Amnesia with a passion but many love the snarls, tangles and constant stretching to make it work ....
I prefer something like a Mastery Shooting line ... 035 Saltwater.

I make my own running/shooting lines using 100ft of 35lb Gudbrod mono, "inch-worming" 50 lb super braid gsp - but you gotta be nuts to do that sort of thing.
Be careful if you do tho, it will cut you with a hot fish without gloves.

Put together a shooting head system composed of floating, intermediate, Class III, Class VI, and Cortland LC-13 or some of the new T sinker heads that Scott can recommend.

I don't know about the Delta but Dan's T&T pages are full of good info, as well as helpful folks on his forum.
I use full sinkers for Stripers on Texoma for deeper fish and intermediate for structure.
Most Texoma guides won't fish rocky structure because they don't like their clients hanging up, but that's where the big Moes hang out this time of the year.

Best advice is to book Blanton for a day trip for the best instruction you will ever receive.
He's a good guy and a FFF Hall of Famer.

Hope this helps - if I can be of further help - fire away.
George Glazener

JackMack let me cast his Teeny T line on an 8 wt and it casted really well. The only criticism that I had for it at all was that the running line seemed to be a lower quality line. The running line seemed to not be as slick and struck me as being easily twisted.

Thanks to reading George's posts and the information at Blanton's site, I've got one mix and match shooting head rig built so far. The scotch blood runs true in me, so I'm too cheap to use purpose built lines. A few months ago, I bought a 9 wt full sink line and a 12 wt WFF line from Discount Fishing Inc. The shipping was a little slower than I would have liked, but for the total price of $25 for both lines with shipping, I can't complain. I will note that both of these lines seem to be a bit lighter in "wt" than their numbers would denote.

I measured out about 40 feet off of the head of the floating line and cut it from the running part of that line. I then added the braided loops that I already had on hand from another project to the floating head and to 30 feet of the full sinking line.

This rig seems to cast pretty well, but I'm on the lookout for a faster sinking full sink line that I can butcher to better meet my needs. I may also buy about 40 feet of the T-17 line to experiment with making a head out of it. The braided loops shoot through the guides like feces through a goose-type animal.


I haven't ordered the braided mono to learn to make my own loops yet, but that's my next project. I definitely want to make a loop to go on the end of the running line big enough to pass the coiled up heads through as Blanton mentions on his site.

If you're a tinkerer who never wants to be completely satisfied with your outfit, this seems like the right way to go.

I'm wanting to set up a T-17 line, but have not found it available at my usual retailers. I have not looked very hard either.

The only difference between the T & TS lines is the lenght of the shooting head. 24 ft. vs. 30 ft. if I remember correctly.

That's actually why I haven't ordered the braided mono yet, Scott. I'm slowly searching for somewhere that carries it and the T-17 so I don't have to spend thousands of dollars on shipping.

My brain is full, can I be dismissed? OK, here is the plan from what I can put together from reading all this.
1. Cut my 7 wt WFF line back to the running line.
2. Put a 6" braided mono loop (see note) on the end of the running line and the business end of the front part I cut off. Put a 1" loop on the reel end of the front end of the floating line so I can reassemble and use when floating is preferred.
3. Buy a series of sinking shooting heads and disect as Mr. Blanton suggests (gonna go with the fly fishing hall of famers input here folks).
4. Put 6" loops on the business end of the sections and 1" loops on the reel end.
5. Mix and match and get out there and play with the combos until I find a winner in the water I'm fishing.

NOTE: Sizing the loops so the larger loop is on the water end of the segment is my twist on Mr. Blanton's suggestion. This will aid in assembling the line segments in the direction they were built to fish.

I would add one suggestion. After building your loops test them. Tie a leader to the line and the other end to a trailer hitch (etc.) Pull till you break the leader. I usually test using a leader stronger than what I will use while fishing. I learned this lesson the hard way.

P.S. Will the big Striper in the Red River please bring back my T-14 shooting head?

Scott, that's a great point. Between the leader furling/tying, the butchering and splicing of fly line and the selection of leader materials it's easy to get lost with respect to where the weakest link in your system is. Not if, but when you get into a situation where your gear is stretched beyond its limit, you need to know it will break in the right place. If that right place isn't your leader you risk losing your shooting head, or worse yet, breaking you rod. Although I haven't done either yet, I'm sure I'm more at risk for causing damage like that from being hung up than from a fish.

Good point Scott. I'll ask the stripers out here in the aqueduct if they've seen one with a T-14 shooting head trailing, but I think they have a rapper East Coast - West Coast thing going and don't really get along with each other.

If fish are fighting, is it still a "beef"?

I am a big fan of the Teeny shooting heads....They cast well and limit the tangles you get with mono shooting line. A stripping basket really does help. Using mono (amnesia) helps get the sinking head down faster and deeper.....again, a stripping basket (I really like the Hip Shooter) is really necessary for using mono. If you soak the amnesia for several hours before you use it, it will be much easier to manage, won't require stretching, and won't tangle as bad.

For T-14 as well as T-8, T-11, and T-17, Check Marriott's

http://www.bobmarriottsflyfishingstore.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=t-14

Thanks Budd. Wow. When I first started buying T-14 it was $14.95 now it's up to $24.95. But I have not found anything that goes deeper faster. (Except my cell phone.)Soon I will recieve Jim Teeny's Dan Martini Striper line. I think it is the same shooting head as TS or T series, but the running line does not float. I'm curious to see how it works.

I got two free spools of Amnesia from some tackle reps at a Striper tournament. They were carrying a box that said Amnesia on the outside. I asked what was in the box and they gave me two spools of multi colored Amnesia. They said it was for Crappie fishing. #20 lb. test!! I had to scratch my head on that one. They must catch some big Crappie. I guess the multi color was for counting down the depth.

That color coding should help in pinpointing the depth of schools you are painting on your fishfinder.....I heard rumors that they would not be making any more amnesia....have not tried to verify it.

Spent a nice weekend at Reel Recovery with Bill Adams. He said the fishing is starting to get really good up there....If I ever finish paying for my daughter's wedding I will be up to see you.

Wait, I think I missed something. Are you saying the Teeney T-14 shooting head is not just the 30' head, but also has the running line and it floats? So if I just want to get down the column a bit all I need is a T-14 shooting head and can wait on the slicing and dicing for tuning the way it drops? Or would it be better to cut the front end off of my current floating line and the T-14 and use the mono loops for easier changing. Keep in mind, I use an entry level Dogwood Canyon reel and spare spools are not available.

T-14 is made by RIO. And is sold in 30 ft. lenghts you can add to a running line. You can also trim the T-14 to better match your rod.

Teeny Lines are intergrated Shooting head and running lines. You have a smooth transition from one line to the next. No braided loops. T and T-S series lines have a floating running line. The Dan Martini has an intermediate running line similar to mono. It should go deeper faster than the floating line.

I believe Rio also sells integrated heads labeled as "Rio Outbound", with T-14 line permanently bonded to running line.

Inept....I went back and read your original post. I don't know how much experience you have with shooting head systems but once you get started and get a handle on how to use them you will love them. We have been discussing two basic types of systems here. The integral head (Teeny) and the T-14 type (sinking head added to shooting line of some type). I think the Teeny lines are easier to use, but the head/shooting line system has unlimited versatility. I also highly recommend using a stripping basket (again I highly recommend the Hip shooter) with either of these systems. The Rio T series lines are basically a Tungsten impregnated line (much easier to deal with than the old lead core lines we used to use). The t-14 designation stands for 14 grains per foot. The T-11, and T-8 are ll and 8 grains/foot respectively. You order the line according to the weight you want and fine tune by trimming it back.

John Quigley who owns and runs Fall Run Guide Service in Calif. sells ready made heads and loops for what I consider reasonable prices. http://www.fallrun.com/page/page/5149716.htm

If you call him he is happy to answer questions. I have done a good bit of business with him and found him to be knowledgeable and reasonable in price.

Once you decide on what running/shooting line you are going to use (I like amnesia, but I have been using it for years and years and am comfortable with it), you can start accumulating heads of different weights and sink rates. These heads can be changed in a matter of minutes depending on the depth and speed of the water. This way you only need one reel loaded with backing and shooting line. Add the appropriate head and you are good to go.

Hope this helps.

Bud

Helps a lot. My experience with shooting heads and sinking lines in general are what I've been reading in this post and elsewhere. Now, can I cut off the forward portion of my floating line and use the running part as my running line with the shooting head? That seems like the easiest (and since I am currently unemployed, cheapest) route I can take if it will work.

That will work. Not sure about the cheapest part. You will sacrifice a floating line to get a running line. I have picked up spools of Amnesia for $5.00. Enought line to make 3 running lines. (200 ft. = 3-66 ft. running lines.) Stick with the heavier test when you start out. 30 to 40 lb. Or cut the floating line if you don't need it.

Just got my Teeny Dan Martini lines. Similar to the RIO Outbound. but not quite the same feel. It seems like the running line is a little more flexable. I need to see them side by side. Fishing a client on Saturday who uses Outbound. It will be a good chance to compare.

P.S. I'm pretty sure the RIO comes with loops per formed. The 30 ft. T-14 has some braided loops in the package. 2 I think. Maybe 4.

I would seriously give the amnesia shooting line a try....there is a learning curve....but it is worth it....or try some braided mono. If you don't like it you can cut up your line....

Check out this site for instructions on how to make your own stripping basket..
http://caseysmartt.com/2009/11/20/make-a-stripping-basket/

Mr. Smartt makes a good stripping basket - I had never seen his design but that's exactly what mine looks like, although it's not nearly that pretty any more.

Tip: If you plan to fish the surf, I suggest making the bottom of your stripping basket look like it has a bad case of chicken pox. Trust me.