i would still like to know where the big blues hang out

I look at it this way, when I first started catfishing and joined this forum I had lots of questions to ask, only 1 guide took the time to help me out, and because of his help I now catch fish, show me another guide that will do this.

Thanks Tiny

Here's just one from a really quick search....
http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...Low#Post4030393

I'm just grateful for the information Tiny passes along.
He certainly does not have to, he does it out of the goodness of his heart, for those of us working schmucks who couldn't possibly devote the time it would take to acquire his level of expertise.
I don't like it when when someone badmouths him.
Disagreeing with someone is one thing.
Resorting to personal attacks is another.

+1 well said

In the fall and winter, will blues come to bait such as sour milo?

This was what got me going about 1 guide saying something about another guide in a forum. Maybe we should have another section to where just the guides can go to iron out ther differences. Some fishermen are partial to one guide or another. So when one guide trys to cut down another guide then it does ruffle some feathers from some anglers in the forum. The above quote should have never been said in the first place in the forum IMO.

+1........

Thanks to all for the info. Very much appreciated. Kinda sorry I asked now, but I do have one more question. I have only owned my casting net a few months, and have only thrown it maybe 10 times. This was all in the summer. I had no problem catching shad, but I wonder how different it will be in the next month or so, catching them. Are they still around rocks, boat ramps and various cover, or do they move deep?

they will be deep, need a big heavy net, and a long line

ummm that's a different forum ... we talkin' catfish here ... this is the catfish forum ... the cap'n don't turn loose of his catfishin' secrets ... he may have a chrub like demeaner other places but in cafishin' he comes across as a bit obnoxious & conceited

i've been finding them in 25 foot of water.

Albert that right there is funny. Hope no one does a search on any of your posts. Hey I'll be up in Stamford in two weeks, you wanna do some catfishing up there?

have not fished either guide but I have learned alot from mr. Tiny. Thanks for the help !!!!

fellers, I sure appreciate all the kind words. what happened I guess was this, I just commented on a thread as I thought it was bad info ... still do because I think what capn steve was talking about was he was probably on one of his juglining ventures below the texoma dam and when they turned the turbines on it probably sucked a billion or so shad through the turbines and killed them and he musta thought that it was the 45 degree or less temp that killed them ... my point back then was that our water gets really low temps and freezes over and he took my latest post partially out of context to try to make me look bad or something. I went back and looked at the dates to make sure as to the amount of time involved in this scenario and thread. now when I commented on the thread about the threadfin dying off at 45 degrees ... just the year before on keystone I was over an new mannford ramp and caught lots of threadfin, on may 6 2006 which was 2.5 years ago and only about a year and 4 months prior to me commenting on the thread. now I had no idea that capn steve would take offense to me pointing out that threadfin don't die because of 45 degree water because if they did we'd have never had any threadfin in keystone and we have for many years. now I said I hadn't seen any threadfin in 3 years and that was a mistake ... I was thinking about the cowskin arm when i made that comment and every once in a while you'd get a few threadfin over there ... they're more common on the clearer side of keystone over in the salt creek arm and there may be some over there but my comment about not seeing in an 3 years was off by about 6 months but I was over on the new mannford ramp area where they're more common when I caught those ... it hadn't been that long, at that time since I'd seen the threadfin ... just a little over a year when I commented in the thread that capn steve threw up in my face and taking that out of context as I was referring to a lake freeze of about two weeks when we had a massive shad die-off over on the arkansas arm "LAST YEAR" and in my mind I was talking about over at cowskin bay when I said I hadn't seen any threadfin in the last three years as we usually seen some every once in a while over there. now there is probably still some threadfin over on salt creek side of the lake ... there may not be after the shad die-off either as we lost a big population of gizzard shad this last winter. I don't always type exactly everything that I'm thinking when I say something and threw in a guestimate as to the amount of time it's been since I seen threadfin on keystone but this is the main point .... if shad die at 45 degrees then why is there any threadfin in keystone at all and even further north. if they died at 45 degrees then there should never have been any threadfin survive in keystone even one year. let alone 30 or 40 years from when they first stocked them in keystone.

I also never said that I didn't like capn steve or had any problem with him at all but he jumped all over my statement about not seeing any threadfin in three years ... now if I were to state it like I was thinking it and went back and looked at the date on the last trip I took with threadfin shad ... it was a big brothers event, by the way. as I volunteered to take out a big brother/little brother fishing to show them a good time at choteau bend ... that's how I remember the trip that I caught my last threadfin shad. I might have caught some since then but never paid much attention or wouldn't have really remembered it because that wouldn't be an event that stuck in my mind ... like throw my net and catch 50 gizzard shad and a couple of threadfin and then go ... WOOOO HOOOO ... EURIKA! I CAUGHT A THREADFIN .. I SHOULD GO TELL CAP'N STEVE!!!! hahaha. this thread will make me pay attention probably from now on because the next time I see a threadfin I'll make a big fuss over it and do a little jig right in the middle of the boat while I take a picture of it and post it on the internet for capn steve so HE can see what one looks like. hahaha. now for a revision of the previous statement I made since I went back and checked the timeline

I haven't seen any threadfin shad in keystone over in the cowskin bay area for perzactly 2.5 years and don't remember seeing any in the two or three times that I caught shad over where they're more abundant on keystone at the new mannford ramp area and salt creek.

capn steve said that threadfin start dying off at 45 degrees and he tried to make my comment about the threadfin not doing so well up here to justify his comments about the 45 degree thing ... I was talking about a cold snap that froze the lake over ... that's a far cry from 45 degree water so he took my comments out of context when I said that threadfin don't do so well up here. I'm also pretty sure I'm right about him seeing the shad getting sucked through the turbines and thought it was the water temp that killed them because it seems like everyone I spoke with that went fishing with him and then went out with me to learn how to locate fish and what not said that they fished with him down below texoma dam. He allowed as how he didn't have time to read all that previous post but he had time to read my tips on winter blues and then go look up that old thread to take it out of context to try to make me look bad when all I do is try to help folks ... didn't mean to upset him when I said that I didn't think the shad died off because the water temp gets down to 45 but I guess I did because he jumped all over me bout that comment I made and trying to show conflicting info on what I said and there's no conflict there. freezing water is not 45 degree water and I've dipped water out of the lake at 34 to 36 degrees and put shad in the tank and they lived all day long. I guess maybe they lived because they had their survival suit on. hahaha

I also said that ya'll have an abundance of threadfin down there ... when I said that I didn't mention the lake names that I seen them at and I was also going by the assumption that we were talking about lakes around the same distance north as tawakoni or ray hubbard ... thought I might throw that in there too because I don't want to get anyone else's panties in a bunch for not being specific ... what lake are we talking about by the way?

to the guy what said that we probably don't like each other was off a little ... it's capn steve that don't seem to like me as I've never or never thought about him too much. don't remember talking to him too much on here either, for that matter.

I guess I should elaborate further on the wintering blues up here on keystone since I said that about the water temp has to be about 40 and then a cold front come through to drive all the fish back to deeper water ... up until that point all the shad will be up on the upper ends of the lake in 2 ft or less of water ... not all of them but quite a few ... when the lake hits around 40 and then a good cold front comes through it'll usually drive the temp down to 36 to 38 degrees ... usually on keystone when the water is 38 or so they're headed to the wintering holes ... there are acceptions though because when we get the first good flood or got the first good flood in feb the water temp was still 36 degrees but the blues came out of the wintering areas and went up to the upper end of the lake where mayfly nymphs got washed into the lake due to the flood waters flooding lots of previously dry ground. The blues got up there on the upper end and started gorging themselves on the mayfly nymphs or larvae and stayed up there even through the larvae had all been eaten up and the water temp was still 36 degrees. They must have found something else to feed on up there because they never went back to the wintering areas.

I think this is the first time I've ever tried to help someone and then had to defend myself and my comments from over a year earlier by someone taking what I said out of context. hahaha. oh well, everything's bound to happen sooner or later.

but capn steve ... those shad coming through the dam down there aren't being killed by water temps being too cold ... when an animal or fish goes through the dam, on the dam side the water depth is probably really deep ... when they get sucked into the pinstocks and through the turbines they're going from really deep water to really shallow water in just a few seconds ... no fish can survive that rapid pressure change.

that would be great but if it's the weekend before thanksgiving, i'll be in breckenridge having thanksgiving with the in-laws ... gimme a holler next time you're in the area though & maybe i can meet you over there

I never thought I would see the day Tiny would have to defend himself. He is the most knowledgeable, friendly, sharing person I have seen on TFF. He has offered more of his time to teach others how to find fish, set up rigs, reels, poles, find bait, read graphs, bait up, cut bait, and clean fish, etc...

Tiny,

Thank you so much for all you share about blue cat fishing!

I will never forget the day I caught my first blue cat using all the info on your site!

Unfortunately I am hopelessly addicted!

I have GREAT success on Grapevine in the spring and summer catching blues.. but I have yet to bag even 1 winter cat.

I have tried up in the creeks, deep shallow, by the damn, Drifting, fishing points, in submersed grass/timber,locating fish with the depth finder and plopping down on them... I have not tried bank fishing, however have fished in similar areas.

I haven't been able to locate any cat fish... I see very dispersed shad... the birds never seem to be feeding heavily and if there is any water movement it it only where they let the water out. I pay a lot of attention to the environment but it just seems to not be showing where the cats are. I am noticing LOTS of rolling gar and Carp. Like I said the shad are spread out everywhere except down by the aerator near the damn, they are VERY thick there (I can reel a slab fast and hook one every time. I was out today from 6 am until 12 and never saw the birds feeding, just sitting on the water resting all day.

Should I be out in the evening? I keep trying in the morning because everyone says the bite is better :-/

I learned very quickly once I started catching blue in spring/summer, but with NO winter luck I have nothing to go on.

I am at a loss.. I don't even know what to try anymore.

The lake is about 5 feet high right now and water temp is around 67 degrees.

Is there anything you can suggest I try?

try some flats about 20 to 30 ft deep

Wow Tiny I will have to admidt you have a very big bag of smoke and mirrors. After reading your post even I am confused. You seem to have a big fan club on the catfish forum so it is obviously a wast of my time to share any of my knowledge that does not agree with what you have to say. And no I am not a jug line guide.

It isn't that us catfishermen are not willing to listen to your expert advice Steve. But we do not think it is alright for you to try and cut someone down for trying to explain and teach us some of there tricks of the trade they use and had success with. If you have some good advice then say it. we do read and put what we read into action when possable. Can you do that for us without cutting someone down at the same time?

Go back and read this whole thread and you will see that Tiny started this whole argument about the threadfin shad and he basically said that I don't know what I am talking about . That does not set very well with me especially when I know my info is right. I know Tiny is your hero but he is dead wrong about threadfin shad. Just ask any real guide on Texoma how well the threadfins do when the water gets below 45.

i am still waiting to hear where the blues are hanging out

They are out there in Lewisville lake waiting on ME. I think so many of them already have my name on them just waiting for me to go reel them in is all.

That's why I didn't catch very many last Saturday, they must have had your name on them!!!