This year will be the first year I go on the hunt for Blue cats. I am typically a bass fisherman, but that big blue cat fishing sure looks fun. So, I think I have read and see enough to have a good idea of how to go about it, but I would like to double check some things with you experts before I start off.

First off

I'm assuming the 3rd week or so in Nov, it should really get going, through Feb?

A Carolina rig with a live or frsh shad is one of the best baits?

Can I get away with using a bait caster I do my heavy pitching with, to catch these Blues? 7 foot M/H rod and 17lb Floro?

Bait should be a few cranks off the bottom, on main lake points, slowly drifting? I know this can change daily, but what is a good place to start, as far as presentation?

I will fish Lewisville all winter, and I know a guide would be best, but I want to figure this out on my own. Any tips and info would be appreciated.

17 lbs a little light .....30 lbs ould be lightest I would go ..my rigs have got team catfish braid 65 lbs. or 40 bls mono..Car. rig with a cork floating your bait...call by most the Sante Cooper rig...fresh cut gizzard shad with double action 8/0 hooks I used Team catfish hooks and gam. octopus hooks...yes your bait caster will do fine ...depending on the fish your rod should be ok ...I have heard of guys snapping poles ...on hook sets but never personally done it.. some fish shallow all year some fish deep this depends on bait and temp...have a plan for both....deep humps and river channels....shallow flats near deep water ...good luck.....if you cant find shad use a black bass...lol just kidding on the last part...welcome to the dark side....

you better grease them drags good with only 17# if you want to see any big fish !imho step up to bigger line

dang bt you type quick !

what he said

For smalies the rig you described will catch ALOT of good sized cats.. But you never know when that big mofo will come your way...

Use BIG bait. It keeps the small guys off the hooks.
If your catching alot of 14-22's Go up on the bait size, untill it wont fit in their mouths, this will get ALOT of hits but keep them off the hook. If its in the water for more than 15mins with no fish, bring it in and reset. 2 casts or rehooks per shrimp load then rebait. DONT TOSS the shrimp into the water! its just food that keeps them full and off your hooks. Bag it and use for chum just before you leave!

I have ALOT of success with 2 jumbo white RAW shrimp on a 5/0 or bigger circle hook. Sprayed with garlic spray if they are still frozen or natural if they are thawed and been sitting in the back of my truck for a day or 2. I like to often poor in some raw garlic salt into the bag of shrimp, shake it around and let it sit in the shade on a warm day for a day or 2. WOW its potent!
Tip, wet your hands before hooking the shrimp, the stink will wash off easyer.

If you can get a heavy rod regaurdless of the reel you use.
The cats I been pullin in will snap anything less than med/hvy.
and pop 20pound line like tissue paper.
I use 7'6" ers. its what Im used to from bass fishing. with 60# braid attached to large steel leaders, If you get snagged the clips will open and you will get your gear back -1 hook.
Just beshure to palamar knot it or you will be really mad!

I like to find trenchs running through channels. drop my weight on the edge of it and suspend my bait over the edge. With a semi tight line.
Once you find a spot and pull a cat. keep on that same spot as close as possible. Just liek bass they will rotate into holes channels etc...

Good luck!

BTW even Bowfin like the shrimp!

If you choose to use shrimp and only one per hook. slide that shrimp onto the hook from the head end through the middle of the body and out the side of the last scale just before the tail.
Just pop the barb through and thats all..
Keeps the smallies from pullin it off the hook and allows for a solid hookset when a big boy gets on.
If you dont pop that tip through you will constantly pull the bait from out their mouths.
Shrimp is my confidence bait. Never had any luck on shad alive or dead.
And remeber DONT set hook on circle hooks, put tension on them and just reel in slow until he startes trashing! let the fish set the hook...

lol that thw firt time someones told me that ....lol

Where do you fish Ezdaar that the fish snap rods and 20lb line? Will you take me? I have been dying to get into some fish like that. The fish in my sig bottomed out my 32lb scale, and I brought it in on a Garcia 6500 with 20lb, yes 20, Berkely Big Game, 50lb mono leader, Quantum Medium/Fast Saltwater grade(Glass rod SS eyes, but otherwise the same as any other medium rod), 4/0 VMC bait holder hook. A lot of guys that I fish with use big hooks, 8/0 and bigger, and I have one buddy on this site that uses some 13/0 hooks. Me personally, I like medium sized tackle. I'm after the fight, not the fish. I dont keep them because I dont eat them. But I'm serious Ezdaar, if you are willing to take me to catch some of those big, big fish, I will go, and fish like you tell me to, we can even take my boat if you like. I'm always willing to learn. Most of my catfishing techniques came from Brother Terry and DEERSTRANGLER, two of the best catters I know.

My new sig. Thanks Nathan.

I speak the truth, Bob.

Terry don't type fast he got his daughter to type it for him.She is eight.
Johnny

I took typing 2 years in high school finaly got up to 10 words per minute!!!

so you're saying that took you almost two minutes to type?

Yea I type chicken style, one peck at a time!!!

You guys have me drooling. I can't wait to get into some winter cats. Hope I do as good as you guys do since I'll be on the bank.

Dang Bullprick--
Looks like you've done "pretty good" off the bank!

Bullprick, we should go out together sometimes. I'm always sitting there on the bank alone, and there's always beer left in the cooler.

Gibby, what Bro. Terry said. I'll add my two cents, my new set-up for trophy kittys is 65lb braid main line with 50lb ande mono leader with Team Catfish 8/0 double action circle hooks. Rigged Santee-Cooper rigg. With circle hooks you don't set the hook so breaking a rod shouldn't be an issue. The mono leader is recommended because the mouths of the kittys will wear out the braid. I use glass rods 7-8ftMH. I'll add that filleted buffalo strips make good bait also. I think 30lb good quality mono would be fine for most trophys in open water but if your gonna be fishing in flooded timber areas the lighter mono will break your heart. Don't ask me how I know.

I took typing two years in college dropped it both times.....

I've had some luck in the shallows and some in deeper water, but nothing really big.Patterns don't seem to be working with all the rain. Where can I and others find bigger fish right now?

welcome to the tff stevenm i cant help ya, i cant find em either

for rod n reel to catch bigguns you gotta use natural baits and keep the baits out of the mud. work the wind blown side of the lake no matter how shallow it is as I don't think the blues go into full wintering mode down there in tejas because in order for that to happen the water temp has to hit the low 40's and then you have to have a good cold front come through to send them all deep like they do up here further north. When blues go into full wintering mode you won't find any fish at all in the shallows. if the water temp stays about 45 and above in the lakes you're fishing then they can literally be anywhere in the lake as there's no thermocline for them to deal with that'd cause them to stay up shallower ... once the water cools down the oxygen saturates the whole lake so that's why they can be anywhere. The reason I don't think they go into full wintering mode is because of the abundance of threadfin shad ya'll have down there. threadfin don't do well in the colder waters like up here in northern oklahoma ... we have a few but I haven't seen one in about 3 years here on keystone over on the cowskin bay area due to the extreme cold that hit here about 3 years ago. it also got so cold so fast that we had a real bad shad die-off in Janurary, of this year, also. so if you're bank bound you'll want to focus your fishing towards the windblown side of the lake if possible as there always seems to be more fish towards the windblown end of the lake ... usually the wind is out of the south probably 80% of the time so you'd want to fish the northern side of the lake or northern side of any arm of the lake depending on where you're able to get to. fresh water sources coming into the lake is a magnet for bluecat ... well all three of the major catfish species are attracted to current eddys towards the upper end of any lake as the fish will stack up near the edge of the current and if the lake is rising they'll be going right up into the current but once the creek or river crests they'll pull right back to the current eddys our just outside the current eddys is a great place to fish the shallow flats with float rigs and fresh cut shad or bluegill. use common sense and stay away from wives tale type baits or fishing methods and you'll start to figure it out. don't jump around too much from lake to lake ... learn one lake and how the fish react to environmental changes and then once you do that you'll be able to fish any lake anywhere and automatically have a really good idea of where the fish will be ... even on lakes you've never fished in your life if you'll do that one simple thing ... learn one lake and how the fish react to weather changes or environmental changes and you'll be an expert catfisherman before you know it. jumping around from one lake to another won't teach you anything because then you're depending too much on luck and luck has nothing to do with it unless you allow it to be your way of fishing. depending on luck is never dependable. Pay attention to what the environment and water is telling you ... look for fish activity on the surface ... watch the birds and pay attention to what they're telling you. if the gulls are diving down and picking up shad there's either one of two scenarios that happening there ... there's either just a lot of shad there or there's fish attacking the shad that are there disrupting their swimming pattern so that they're more vulnerable to the birds ... that's the kind of things I'm talking about that you need to pay attention to. if you see gulls diving down and picking up shad then throw a fresh cut shad out there where they're diving ... if they're just sitting on the bank then that means nothing at all .. if they're just sitting on the surface of the water that means nothing also. same with other types of birds but you get the idea of what I'm trying to tell you.

try to think more linear when it comes to catfishing instead of the way most people think of it which is static or spot type fishing because you can't depend on spot fishing when there's live creatures you're dealing with. they're going to be where they're going to be. sounds like yoggy berra don't it hahaha. when I'm fishing keystone I have to locate the fish just about every day and just about every day is different ... very seldom do I find the fish in the same spot as I did the day before and very seldom do I get them to bite the same way as the day before because it changes from day to day.... learn what evokes these changes and you'll never be hungry for fish for the rest of your life because you'll always be able to catch them at any time.

+1

Thats some good info. Gonna try it today

Great info guys! I appreciate it.

Buying a new fishing pole - $75.00. Getting a new reel for the pole - $80.00. Learning catfishing from Tiny - PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for all the information tiny. I due have another question. Mainly been fishing Eagle Mountain. We normally fish were we have caught fish before and due work with the wind. I have read your info in the past about finding fish and bait on the graph,but we never seem to mark alot of fish. Usually just drift with cut shad. what should we be looking for on the graph? Also,I have heard that EM is one of the harder lakes around me to fish because of lack of depth and structure. Love to fish and trying to get better results every trip. I really appreciate this forum and ALL the guys who share information. I'm not trying to get seceret spots or hound people-just trying to cut down on wasted water time. Thanks!

Amen. Tiny is da man when it comes to catfishing.
Welcome to the TFF StevenM.

Whats up with this Tiny. http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...ior#Post1915422[/url] You said the Threadfins did fine up there and there was no way our threadfins would die in low 40 degree temps on Lake Texoma. You said they did fine on Keystone in the cold and now you are telling me you have not seen a threadfin in 3 years? Are you sure you can tell the difference between a threadfin and a small gizzard?

Man that thread even had Jerry in there on it. Good shad info in that one.

steve barnes, lake freezing over is a whole different deal than 40 degree water. that and it had frozen over for a couple of weeks. I really don't know why you're being an arse but that's your right to be I suppose. I was just stating an oppinion and I still don't think threadfin will start to die off at 45 degrees because our water gets down to a lot colder than that and they don't die off. seems like someone said you're a jugline guide and you do it below the dam at texoma and if you're refering to shad dieing that get sucked in the turbines while you're down there in the winter then that's not because of the temp ... it's because of them being down deep and in 40 ft or deeper water and then instantly getting flushed into 10 ft deep they get the bends due to the rapid pressure change ... I can't say for sure why your texoma shad die but I really doubt it's because the water temp is 45 degrees. I also don't lose any shad when my bait tank water is below 45 degrees ... it certainly doesn't have to be 60 or 70 degrees ... maybe you need to come up to keystone so I can give you a few lessons on how to keep shad alive. hahaha. The shad die-off we had in january wasn't three years ago .. it was this last january. I also am not sure if it's been three years since I seen a threadfin shad but I certainly haven't seen any since the last lake freeze we had. but I know for sure that they don't die in 45 degree water cause if they did there wouldn't be any shad at all in oklahoma ... I'll go look at my pics page and see when it was when I caught my last threadfin shad on keystone as I remember the trip. we stopped at keystone to get shad to head over to choteau bend to a big brothers event and I remember catching threadfin at the new mannford ramp on keystone but haven't caught any since then.

it was may 6, 2006 and we were talking about that shad die off you were talking about Jan 1, 2008 which is about one and a half years so it wasn't that long then and now it's nov of 2009 so that's 2 years 6 months instead of 3 years like I'd said earlier in this thread. evidently you took offense to me disagreeing with your highness because if you remembered that and went through the trouble of looking back through the old posts so that you could throw it up in my face as to what I said then you musta became obsessed with me disagreeing with you. I don't know if there's any threadfin in keystone for sure or not because all of them I've caught have been over around the salt creek area as the water is a lot clearer over there and I guess they like the clearer water instead of the muddy waters coming down the arkansas and cimarron river and I think I've went over there to catch shad maybe 3 or 4 times since may 6 of 2006 as I spend most of my time on further up the lake, up in the muddy water. I think it's been about 5 or 6 years since I've caught any threadfin on the arkansas side and that was only a few times. anyhow, I still think .... no I KNOW you're wrong about shad dying because the water temp is 45 degrees because I've dipped water out of the lake and filled my bait tank when some of the lake has been frozen over and they survived just fine all day long.

I'm wondering if those shad you seen that died came through the dam... did they?

Steve M, the best thing I could probably say is pay attention to the environment. watch for diving gulls or maybe where pelicans are feeding and head over there and when you get close drop the trolling motor and run through there silently watching your fish finder ... if the water is at least 10 ft deep you'll be able to see a path of about 8 ft below the transducer or maybe 7 ft but that's enough ... if you go through there where the birds were diving and you see busted up shad ... anchor off and broadcast your rods in all directions as far out as possible ... lots of people make the mistake of fishing those shallow areas by just throwing out 50 ft from the boat but you want to cover as much water as possible when fishing shallow areas like ... try to get 8 rods out in all directions and be sure to keep those baits up off bottom ... can't throw a carolina or santee cooper rig as far as you need to ... use at least a 3 oz weight with the float rig depicted on my site with fresh cut shad and try to throw them rascals at least 70 yds from the boat in all directions because bluecat are an open water fish ... they hunt together on those flats and they're liable to be in a group of 50 to 100 fish all moving together but just in close proximity to one another ... they don't swim shoulder to shoulder like scaley fish do so when you see busted up shad you want to cover as much water as possible from you anchored boat ... once you get your rods broadcasted then if you haven't caught anything in 15 to 20 minutes then you need to go ahead and move and try to locate some fish ... if you catch a few fish and they're in a certain direction ... say if they've bitten the front two rods on the right side of the boat and haven't bitten since then that's the direction you need to move ... if you casted out 70 yds and you're moving in that direction go about 150 yds in that direction and cast your rods out again. this is on of the methods I use a lot when fishing these shallow flats. watch the surface of the water while you're waiting on fish to bite too ... if you're fishing some 3 ft flats and the fish are active on those flats chasing shad and what not you'll be able to see fish chasing shad if you're paying attention ... don't pay attention to the ones that jump out of the water cause those are usuall carp or buffalo but those ones that you see blow up out there are most likely bluecat that have attacked a shad ... if you see two or three of those blow ups then that's a good place to move. this is the kinda stuff that I'm talking about when I say "pay attention to the environment" cause it'll pay off bigtime.

also if you're using your electronics to locate fish I've written a few things already on other threads that you should be able to find pretty easily but just remember that when you're looking for blues out in open, shallow water they'll just be in close proximity to one another and if you see 3 fish in 30 yds of boat travel then that's most likely a good place to stop and fish ... if you've got a color lowrance fish finder you can also tell if the fish are catfish by setting it with a scaley fish like I've written on another previous thread ... if you set the colorline of your unit by dropping a fish down so your transducer will pick it up and adjust your colorline to show the scaley fish as all red then any fish you go over that has a lot of yellow in the arch will be a skin fish. remember that though ... 3 fish in about 25 to 30 yds of boat travel in 10 ft of water ... if it's about 30 ft deep you'll want to see maybe 5 or so fish in 30 yds of boat travel because in deeper water your transducer will be covering more bottom area ... I also look for catfish that are close to bottom ... I don't pay too much attention to suspended fish ... that's how we caught that oologah lake record a few weeks ago ... I was moving up the main channel of the lake and seen several big fish suspended and kept going and seen another one about the same size as the suspended fish but it was on bottom. I pulled my boat up about 30 yds and dropped anchor and let the wind pull me back towards the fish until I was about 10 to 15 ft in front of it and then I threw out two large live shad in front of it and about 3 minutes later that 46 lb flathead took off with one of those shad. easy huh!

another point I'll mention when you're reading your fish finder is you go by the thickness of the arch when trying to figure out how big a fish is ... never by the length of the arch because if hte fish is swimming the same direction your boat is traveling it'll be a lot longer but they can't get fatter or they can be turned sideways to your boat and look smaller if you go by the length of the arch so go by the thickness of the arch ... you can tell how thick they are by the 1 ft hashmarks on your fish finder or if it's showing 5 ft intervals then you see a fish that's taking up 1/3rd of the 5 ft intervals then that's a pretty big fish. you also have to take into account the depth at which your fish finder is on at the time ... if you've got it set to autodepth like it changes the max depth automatically then the deeper it is the smaller the arches will be ... say if your fish finder is showing 20 ft and you see an arch about 1/4 inch thick then that fish isn't very big because you're just seeing 20 ft in your 3 or 4 inch screen and that 1/4 inch fish is taking up less than a foot compared to the hash marks but if your fish finder is autodepth to 80 ft and you're in 60 ft deep water then a 1/4 inch arch is a huge fish because what you're doing is craming 80 ft of info in your 4 inch screen and that 1/4 inch arch represents about 2.5 to 3 ft thick and if you see this fish right on bottom then pull up a ways into the wind or up current and drop anchor and let out enough rope that you can get just in front of the fish and throw out a couple of rods with live shad on both sides of the boat almost straight down and then two with cut bait just outside of the two you threw out with live baits and chances are you'll reel in a hawg. ... always try to broadcast your bait up current from the fish so that the current will send the scent of your bait back towards the fish ... if there's no current then broadcast several baits all around that fish.

let me know if you have any other questions as I've forgotten what we was talking about now so I'll quit here. hahaha.

I don't have time to read all that but from what I scanned over you don't know much about threadfin shad.

Are ya'll paying attention!?!??!?!?! Someone (Tiny) is offering information based on YEARS of experience! How about Ya'll go out there and spend crazy time on the water and then divulge what you have found for everyone to get the easy way out? At that point, THEN you come on to this forum and talk smack about how someone can be wrong. I've met many great people that just want to try their best to put people on catfish....once in awhile, we got those people that believe they can put themselves on a pedestal by showing up someone. That does NOT note the spirit of this forum in any way shape or form. If you have an ego and want to slam someone for their fishing methods, you can just move on. This forum has been about people enjoying the feeling of catching and sharing their expreriences with others. Fish have fins and they move. We all get skunked. We can have some great days. SHARE your good days and all the tips that have helped you have a great day on the lake. What do you gain by slamming someone that just wants to share their experience? In my honest oppinion, slamming someone just makes you look like a jerk and keeps you from the true values of being a true fisherman and sharing in your experience. If you have that attitude, you don't belong here. You belong in the first grade. Put your ego's in check. CONTRIBUTE.....don't be a loser and slam someone else for your own personal gain because we are a lot smarter than you give us credit for!! Thank you, Tiny for input and your patience for the loser freaks that HAVE to feed their ego's by slamming you. Keep this forum advantageous to all. Ignore the slams from the egocentric, Holier than though, folks that can't appreciate somoeone else's experience. Bravo to Tiny, and BOOOO to those of you that don't applaude someone for his contributions.

+1 Looks like to me some guides services really do not know that much about fishing after all and just are in it to take peoples money.

I would hardly call Steve Barnes a loser with an ego. He is one of the best catfisherman in the state. What makes you any better for slamming Steve? Take your own advice, if you dont like whats posted, move on. You arent anyone to be calling out either one of these catfishing greats.

+1 for tiny anybody that has spent as much time as he has writing about these slimey critters that we all love has got my vote i learn something everytime i read one of his posts. wish he would come down here and teach me to read my fishfinder on lewisville, maybe i could figure them out then

If all fishing guides were as good as Tiny, then maybe they should post a 50# guarantee like Tiny does. That to me puts him out the in forefront of all catfishing guides. I have been following Tiny's web site for over 5 years and he is the one of the most experienced catfishermen around. IMO.

They are both really good guides and great sportsmen. I think that they either don't like each other too much, or they are really good buddies who just enjoy giving each other a hard time.

"They are both really good guides and great sportsmen" +1

Barnes posts some wheels off things on here that leaves me scratching my head sometimes, but those of you that think he doesn't have as much experience in catfishing might want to check out some of the pics on his site.

http://www.txfishingguide.com/trophy-catfish-pictures-page.htm

I know he used to have pages and pages and pages of big cats at one time on there going back to the 90's and pretty much was one of the first trophy catfisherman around here. I'm just hoping somewhere else in this thread Barnes or tiny will cough up some more good info to help us all out and pull this one out of the ditch

I've learned quite a bit from both of these guys and respect what they have to say regardless.

It is not very professional when one guide trys to make another guide look like he does not know what he is talking about in a forum. You are going to have this type of disagreement among fellow fishermen when this happens.

where did you see any indication that tiny don't like the cap'n? ... you didn't see any ... but you did see the cap'n makin' snart a$$ remarks about tiny ... unless i missed sumpin, where did tiny give the cap'n a hard time?

no doubt the cap'n catches lotsa big fish BUT he really doesn't contribute squat to this forum in the way of good usable information to help out other fishermen ... in that regard he can't hold a candle for tiny to see how to go by

no slam just a FACT

+1, I don't care how good of a fisherman he is, he shows no class in this thread....

Why can't we all just get along? LOL

Evidently some people aren't reading all that well.....

Capt. Steve simply pointed out that in one thread Tiny mentions not seeing a Threadfin in 3 years because they all died off but then in another thread talks about how they don't die off and there are a bunch of threadfin in his lake...which is it?

The amount of words in a post has no correlation with the amount of information provided.

I've seen numerous posts by Capt. Steve with updated reports ON A LOCAL lake that could directly help members of this forum.

Free tips and advice are exactly that....free. Usually you pay for what you get and get what you pay for....in one way or another.

Both guides are accomplished fisherman and run successful charters. Lets leave it at that. There are different ways to skin a cat. All fish including game and nongame have some basic partterns no matter where they are located, but individual waters do vary same as tatics imployed to catch them (game and nongame). Everyone has an opinion and their personal techniques. This is a place to share them and or learn new ones not to bash or start anything. This is starting to become childish men.

Thanks Tiny, for the info. I have catfished a lot but never with any science to it. I normally fish from the bank so I found a spot that looked good or a spot that had held some fish in the past and set the poles out. I have really never fished from a boat so all this info is very useful. I am just now moving to TX around the FT Hood area, I am in the Army and I hear lake Belton is a good place to fish and it is a good size lake, so I will need to be able to fish from a boat. Thanks again

you my friend are the one not reading very well ... cuz these post by the cap'n that you speak of just ain't there

i would still like to know where the big blues hang out

I look at it this way, when I first started catfishing and joined this forum I had lots of questions to ask, only 1 guide took the time to help me out, and because of his help I now catch fish, show me another guide that will do this.

Thanks Tiny

Here's just one from a really quick search....
http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...Low#Post4030393

I'm just grateful for the information Tiny passes along.
He certainly does not have to, he does it out of the goodness of his heart, for those of us working schmucks who couldn't possibly devote the time it would take to acquire his level of expertise.
I don't like it when when someone badmouths him.
Disagreeing with someone is one thing.
Resorting to personal attacks is another.

+1 well said

In the fall and winter, will blues come to bait such as sour milo?

This was what got me going about 1 guide saying something about another guide in a forum. Maybe we should have another section to where just the guides can go to iron out ther differences. Some fishermen are partial to one guide or another. So when one guide trys to cut down another guide then it does ruffle some feathers from some anglers in the forum. The above quote should have never been said in the first place in the forum IMO.

+1........

Thanks to all for the info. Very much appreciated. Kinda sorry I asked now, but I do have one more question. I have only owned my casting net a few months, and have only thrown it maybe 10 times. This was all in the summer. I had no problem catching shad, but I wonder how different it will be in the next month or so, catching them. Are they still around rocks, boat ramps and various cover, or do they move deep?

they will be deep, need a big heavy net, and a long line

ummm that's a different forum ... we talkin' catfish here ... this is the catfish forum ... the cap'n don't turn loose of his catfishin' secrets ... he may have a chrub like demeaner other places but in cafishin' he comes across as a bit obnoxious & conceited

i've been finding them in 25 foot of water.

Albert that right there is funny. Hope no one does a search on any of your posts. Hey I'll be up in Stamford in two weeks, you wanna do some catfishing up there?

have not fished either guide but I have learned alot from mr. Tiny. Thanks for the help !!!!

fellers, I sure appreciate all the kind words. what happened I guess was this, I just commented on a thread as I thought it was bad info ... still do because I think what capn steve was talking about was he was probably on one of his juglining ventures below the texoma dam and when they turned the turbines on it probably sucked a billion or so shad through the turbines and killed them and he musta thought that it was the 45 degree or less temp that killed them ... my point back then was that our water gets really low temps and freezes over and he took my latest post partially out of context to try to make me look bad or something. I went back and looked at the dates to make sure as to the amount of time involved in this scenario and thread. now when I commented on the thread about the threadfin dying off at 45 degrees ... just the year before on keystone I was over an new mannford ramp and caught lots of threadfin, on may 6 2006 which was 2.5 years ago and only about a year and 4 months prior to me commenting on the thread. now I had no idea that capn steve would take offense to me pointing out that threadfin don't die because of 45 degree water because if they did we'd have never had any threadfin in keystone and we have for many years. now I said I hadn't seen any threadfin in 3 years and that was a mistake ... I was thinking about the cowskin arm when i made that comment and every once in a while you'd get a few threadfin over there ... they're more common on the clearer side of keystone over in the salt creek arm and there may be some over there but my comment about not seeing in an 3 years was off by about 6 months but I was over on the new mannford ramp area where they're more common when I caught those ... it hadn't been that long, at that time since I'd seen the threadfin ... just a little over a year when I commented in the thread that capn steve threw up in my face and taking that out of context as I was referring to a lake freeze of about two weeks when we had a massive shad die-off over on the arkansas arm "LAST YEAR" and in my mind I was talking about over at cowskin bay when I said I hadn't seen any threadfin in the last three years as we usually seen some every once in a while over there. now there is probably still some threadfin over on salt creek side of the lake ... there may not be after the shad die-off either as we lost a big population of gizzard shad this last winter. I don't always type exactly everything that I'm thinking when I say something and threw in a guestimate as to the amount of time it's been since I seen threadfin on keystone but this is the main point .... if shad die at 45 degrees then why is there any threadfin in keystone at all and even further north. if they died at 45 degrees then there should never have been any threadfin survive in keystone even one year. let alone 30 or 40 years from when they first stocked them in keystone.

I also never said that I didn't like capn steve or had any problem with him at all but he jumped all over my statement about not seeing any threadfin in three years ... now if I were to state it like I was thinking it and went back and looked at the date on the last trip I took with threadfin shad ... it was a big brothers event, by the way. as I volunteered to take out a big brother/little brother fishing to show them a good time at choteau bend ... that's how I remember the trip that I caught my last threadfin shad. I might have caught some since then but never paid much attention or wouldn't have really remembered it because that wouldn't be an event that stuck in my mind ... like throw my net and catch 50 gizzard shad and a couple of threadfin and then go ... WOOOO HOOOO ... EURIKA! I CAUGHT A THREADFIN .. I SHOULD GO TELL CAP'N STEVE!!!! hahaha. this thread will make me pay attention probably from now on because the next time I see a threadfin I'll make a big fuss over it and do a little jig right in the middle of the boat while I take a picture of it and post it on the internet for capn steve so HE can see what one looks like. hahaha. now for a revision of the previous statement I made since I went back and checked the timeline

I haven't seen any threadfin shad in keystone over in the cowskin bay area for perzactly 2.5 years and don't remember seeing any in the two or three times that I caught shad over where they're more abundant on keystone at the new mannford ramp area and salt creek.

capn steve said that threadfin start dying off at 45 degrees and he tried to make my comment about the threadfin not doing so well up here to justify his comments about the 45 degree thing ... I was talking about a cold snap that froze the lake over ... that's a far cry from 45 degree water so he took my comments out of context when I said that threadfin don't do so well up here. I'm also pretty sure I'm right about him seeing the shad getting sucked through the turbines and thought it was the water temp that killed them because it seems like everyone I spoke with that went fishing with him and then went out with me to learn how to locate fish and what not said that they fished with him down below texoma dam. He allowed as how he didn't have time to read all that previous post but he had time to read my tips on winter blues and then go look up that old thread to take it out of context to try to make me look bad when all I do is try to help folks ... didn't mean to upset him when I said that I didn't think the shad died off because the water temp gets down to 45 but I guess I did because he jumped all over me bout that comment I made and trying to show conflicting info on what I said and there's no conflict there. freezing water is not 45 degree water and I've dipped water out of the lake at 34 to 36 degrees and put shad in the tank and they lived all day long. I guess maybe they lived because they had their survival suit on. hahaha

I also said that ya'll have an abundance of threadfin down there ... when I said that I didn't mention the lake names that I seen them at and I was also going by the assumption that we were talking about lakes around the same distance north as tawakoni or ray hubbard ... thought I might throw that in there too because I don't want to get anyone else's panties in a bunch for not being specific ... what lake are we talking about by the way?

to the guy what said that we probably don't like each other was off a little ... it's capn steve that don't seem to like me as I've never or never thought about him too much. don't remember talking to him too much on here either, for that matter.

I guess I should elaborate further on the wintering blues up here on keystone since I said that about the water temp has to be about 40 and then a cold front come through to drive all the fish back to deeper water ... up until that point all the shad will be up on the upper ends of the lake in 2 ft or less of water ... not all of them but quite a few ... when the lake hits around 40 and then a good cold front comes through it'll usually drive the temp down to 36 to 38 degrees ... usually on keystone when the water is 38 or so they're headed to the wintering holes ... there are acceptions though because when we get the first good flood or got the first good flood in feb the water temp was still 36 degrees but the blues came out of the wintering areas and went up to the upper end of the lake where mayfly nymphs got washed into the lake due to the flood waters flooding lots of previously dry ground. The blues got up there on the upper end and started gorging themselves on the mayfly nymphs or larvae and stayed up there even through the larvae had all been eaten up and the water temp was still 36 degrees. They must have found something else to feed on up there because they never went back to the wintering areas.

I think this is the first time I've ever tried to help someone and then had to defend myself and my comments from over a year earlier by someone taking what I said out of context. hahaha. oh well, everything's bound to happen sooner or later.

but capn steve ... those shad coming through the dam down there aren't being killed by water temps being too cold ... when an animal or fish goes through the dam, on the dam side the water depth is probably really deep ... when they get sucked into the pinstocks and through the turbines they're going from really deep water to really shallow water in just a few seconds ... no fish can survive that rapid pressure change.

that would be great but if it's the weekend before thanksgiving, i'll be in breckenridge having thanksgiving with the in-laws ... gimme a holler next time you're in the area though & maybe i can meet you over there

I never thought I would see the day Tiny would have to defend himself. He is the most knowledgeable, friendly, sharing person I have seen on TFF. He has offered more of his time to teach others how to find fish, set up rigs, reels, poles, find bait, read graphs, bait up, cut bait, and clean fish, etc...

Tiny,

Thank you so much for all you share about blue cat fishing!

I will never forget the day I caught my first blue cat using all the info on your site!

Unfortunately I am hopelessly addicted!

I have GREAT success on Grapevine in the spring and summer catching blues.. but I have yet to bag even 1 winter cat.

I have tried up in the creeks, deep shallow, by the damn, Drifting, fishing points, in submersed grass/timber,locating fish with the depth finder and plopping down on them... I have not tried bank fishing, however have fished in similar areas.

I haven't been able to locate any cat fish... I see very dispersed shad... the birds never seem to be feeding heavily and if there is any water movement it it only where they let the water out. I pay a lot of attention to the environment but it just seems to not be showing where the cats are. I am noticing LOTS of rolling gar and Carp. Like I said the shad are spread out everywhere except down by the aerator near the damn, they are VERY thick there (I can reel a slab fast and hook one every time. I was out today from 6 am until 12 and never saw the birds feeding, just sitting on the water resting all day.

Should I be out in the evening? I keep trying in the morning because everyone says the bite is better :-/

I learned very quickly once I started catching blue in spring/summer, but with NO winter luck I have nothing to go on.

I am at a loss.. I don't even know what to try anymore.

The lake is about 5 feet high right now and water temp is around 67 degrees.

Is there anything you can suggest I try?

try some flats about 20 to 30 ft deep

Wow Tiny I will have to admidt you have a very big bag of smoke and mirrors. After reading your post even I am confused. You seem to have a big fan club on the catfish forum so it is obviously a wast of my time to share any of my knowledge that does not agree with what you have to say. And no I am not a jug line guide.

It isn't that us catfishermen are not willing to listen to your expert advice Steve. But we do not think it is alright for you to try and cut someone down for trying to explain and teach us some of there tricks of the trade they use and had success with. If you have some good advice then say it. we do read and put what we read into action when possable. Can you do that for us without cutting someone down at the same time?

Go back and read this whole thread and you will see that Tiny started this whole argument about the threadfin shad and he basically said that I don't know what I am talking about . That does not set very well with me especially when I know my info is right. I know Tiny is your hero but he is dead wrong about threadfin shad. Just ask any real guide on Texoma how well the threadfins do when the water gets below 45.

i am still waiting to hear where the blues are hanging out

They are out there in Lewisville lake waiting on ME. I think so many of them already have my name on them just waiting for me to go reel them in is all.

That's why I didn't catch very many last Saturday, they must have had your name on them!!!

That is correct. I will go this Sat. and let them all know they can go and bite on your line now.

Ok Guys.... this site is for info not bickering please keep it civil

I try to keep it civil, but this guy went and put his name on all the fish in the lake, now I have spent a lot of time and money on gas, and I am just a little upset with him for doing that, and I think there is a lot more people on here that just might feel the same way!!!

I do apreciate the fact that you are gonna let them know that it is ok to bite on them big ole shad heads that I throw out to them, I wish I could go Saturday, but I have to go Sunday if I go at all this week!!!

I just hope there is still a few fish out there when I get there!!!

Good Luck to Ya Mike, Wear em out!!!

He never said "You don't know what you are talking about"

He was not uncivil to you at all.

He offered his opinion (which was different from yours)and you took offense to someone offering different advice from you.

IF anyone came off as slightly rude it was you when you told Tiny to "do some research" ... seems like he does plenty of Real world research.

I still want to know this... If all the threadfin DIE at 45 degrees, how do they remain in the lakes? Are they being stocked?

LMAO the catfish wars next on Fox..... I get a ton of great tips and tactics from this sight and everyone I have dealt with is extremely helpful and entertaining at some points. I hope to be able and finaly catch another big blue I have caught one big un by accident 46 lbs on a power worm and I thought I had the world record basses older sister on the line and cussed it out. But it was a heck of a fight and I enjoy catching things that fight, then watching them go away to fight again. Great fish guys I am jealous of all the pics of the big fish.

Larry, I promise you there will a few left over, as i only keep enough for a meal or two and then let the rest of them go. So there will still be a few left over that can give you some action also. I will take my name off of each one i return to the lake in case you catch him. lol

what about the rest of us!!!!

Tom, I will only keep 1 eating size cat and then will let the rest of them go so everyone else can catch something. So if you do not catch anything, then go ahead and blame me for it. roflmao

Good Luck to ya Mike, what part of the lake are ya gonna fish in???

Larry, I am not for sure, since Misshooker and i will probably be taking her grandsons fishing also. Thought about hitting little elm to start off with. If I happen to catch any cats that has your name on them, I will let him go so you can catch him.lol

Autintatious, for fishing for wintering blues ya really need to have a gps of some kind like a lowrance hand held and see if lowrance has a free enhanced lake map for the lake you're fishing and those maps will show you the underwater humps and ledges that you need to know where they are in order to find big blues. not just any old gps will work for those enhanced lake maps ... it has to be a lowrance gps and if you have a gps type fish finder already then all you need to do is get an SD chip at wally world and download and copy those maps over to the SD chip ... gotta have an SD chip reader/writer too or get someone that has one to load a chip for you. If you have the funds the southern 2008 hotmaps chip would be a good one to get and it'd most likely have all the contour maps for your surrounding lakes.

Don't worry about catching my fish Mike, it might be a while before I can get out there, and if it is the little ones have time to grow up, I hope not though, I havn't made up my mind if I am fishing or hunting this comming Sunday!!!

well, 30% chance of rain Sun. and 40% chance sun. evening. so you may want to take your rain suit with ya just in case.