In the past several months, I have developed a pasion for fly fishing. I used to only think of mountains, streams, rivers, and trout when I thought of fly fishing. I now see that I clearly had a misconception of what it can be about. However, all of my experience has been during summer trips up north. I live near Houston so if I am going to fish a lot, I'm going to have to get into saltwater and bass fishing too. Too bad!

I currently have 5wt, 9ft TFO and 5wt, 9ft ZAxis rods. I love casting the ZAxis. I am looking for a larger rod to fish for reds and specs on the coast and perhaps the same rod to do some shoreline bass fishing from an inflateable. I recently stopped by the Orvis store in VT and tried out an 8wt, 9ft Helios. It seemed to cast really nice. Since then, I have seen some information on the switch rods. I didn't know enough to ask about them when at Orvis.

Any input on maybe a 8wt, 11ft Helios switch rod for this next bigger rod? I haven't been to the coast a lot, but every time I have, the wind has been blowing. Also wondering about the longer rod for high-sticking and working around grass... It only weighs 5 1/8oz and at least the ads say it casts well single handed. Would this be a compromise to what should really be two different rods?

What do you think?

I am building a switch rod on a 10 foot 7/8 blank and am building it so that the bottom "handle" can be removed and a small fighting butt put in its place so the rod can be used as a one hander. I am building this as a compromise between one handed rods and longer spey rods for surf fishing and jetty fishing using heads and running lines for overhead casting. Also, I'm hoping the rod will be good for throwing a long line in the tailrace for striper. I'm hoping I can keep it under 5 ounces-p-

Terry, if you are comfortable with your casting then the switch rod might be just the thing for you. That being said, it may also depend upon how much time you plan on spending fishing with it. That's just my take on it though.

As for high sticking around grass etc. the longer the better I'd think.

I don't even know enough about this topic to be dangerous, but I've window shopped the TFO website enough to remember seeing their conversion kits for some of their rods. It might be worth a look.

Tx redr; I'm like you; dont know enough to even discuss it, but I'm building one to try out; beats spending a bunch of money and it not fit the bill. I bought my blank on sale so I'm not gonna have a lot tied up in the rod; but casting a TFO that a friend owns got me to itchin a little-p-

I can only imagine the carnage I could cause with a two handed rod.

I got to try one for the first time the other day, and man, it was sooooo fun. I cast it overhead, not being a spey student (nor wishing to injure myself or any innocent bystanders), and after a quick learning curve was shooting most of the line. Definitely worth a fling if you get the chance. I certainly wouldn't turn one down for surf fishing.

Thanks, I really need something new to lust after. The casting videos on youtube that show them are very interesting.

On the advice of one of my fly fishing trip companions, Terry Gunn, I got a Sage Z-Axis switch rod (11 ft 6wt, 5 1/8 oz) shortly before leaving on our Alaska trip in late August. I have several Spey rods and multiple days of Spey casting instruction under my belt, but as it turned out, the real advantage of the switch rod was for (a) casting lengthy rigs longer distances, and (b) mending line when your fly or indicator are "way out there."

Terry and Wendy also brought along two switch rods, a 5 wt and a 6 wt (same length and model as mine), and they were the most popular rods on the trip, getting passed around to everyone at some point during the week.

I used mine mainly for overhead casting from a boat, but was also able to use a few "Spey moves" when wading in current. But that's not their forte, or at least not for me.

I used the 6wt with an 8wt SA Mastery Expert Distance Taper line, and it worked just fine. It also handled the sizable trout and salmon (to probably 12 lbs) in strong currents with no problem.

Given my experience, I'd think an 8wt switch might be overkill on the coast, unless you planned to pair it with a 10 wt line for heavy winds and really big flies.

Mickfly - So, the concept of using a switch rather than a standard length due to wind,... on the coast might be a good approach? Just maybe go with a 6wt? Would it be good for bass out of a boat too?

Mick: I bought a 7/8 blank because I have a set of 8 weight heads and some running line; hope the rod will cast them as i dont want to have to buy more line-p-

The one I cast was a 8wt I believe, loaded with 11wt line (so I was told, don't take it as gospel). No I don't remember the brand of the rod but it loaded nicely for being a fairly fast rod, and I could see that someone proficient with it could make some mind numbing casts even into a stiff breeze or hauling bigA flies around.

In short,

When I bought my switch rod, the guys at Bob Marriott's called both Sage Rods and Rio line company to double check what lines would work for my rod. The general consensus was two line weights heavier than the weight of the rod for an 11 foot rod. The SA Mastery Expert Distance taper is actually about a half line weight lighter than normal, so I was casting a "7.5 wt" line on my 6 wt rod. That seemed to work fine.

I'm guessing that shooting heads are denser than the floating line I used, so 8wt heads might work with the 8wt rod, but it's also been my experience that the longer the rod, the more weight you need to load it.

I was told by Rio that my 6wt switch would load properly with a 325 grain Skagit short head, while my 12.5ft 6wt Spey rod needed a 375 grain head.

Hope this helps.

good info Mick-p-

I had a lengthy conversation with Rick Pope about switch rods and saltwater spey last week. Basically, if you can imagine it this way: a switch rod is identical to a 4 pc 9' rod minus the butt section with a spey-style butt section 2 rod weights higher in its place that consists of 2 pieces. That's exactly the way the spey conversion kits are made. By over-lining them by 2 weights, you move the "sweet spot" of the rod load/action down the taper to get a more spey-like action.

This gives you quite a bit of flexibility to adjust rod action by changing lines to match your fishing conditions. And it is an excellent choice for fly fishing the surf with an overhead casting technique. It is quite easy for a proficient caster to cast 100' into the wind from the beach without a whole lot of effort...allowing the angler to fish longer without fatigue, avoid jellyfish, stingrays, and sharks, but still get the fly out into those cuts!

so, from ken's and mick's commentary i might need 9 or 10 weight heads for my 7/8 weight 10 foot rod. I'm gonna make the rod and try my 8 weight heads but i think I may be underlined. Thanks for the info-p-

Switch rods are going to excel in distance and help you cover lots of water, but do not perform well in situations where accuracy and short casts are the norm - like in bass fishing. Also keep in mind that Two Handed rods, including Switch rods, are not weighted the same as single handed rods. A 6 weight Switch or Two Handed rod will have the same power as a 9 weight single handed rod. As a general rule, if you add 3 line weights to the Two Handed rod weight you will know how powerful that rod is in single hand terms.

Most Switch rod lines will have a head length of about 3X the rod length or 30-35 feet, and need the entire head outside of the rod tip to load well. A 35 ft head, plus the 11 foot rod, plus leader length makes it really tough to tuck a cast under a bush 30 feet away. In addition, the extra length makes landing a fish from a boat quite a challenge.

BMOC: what if you build a switch rod out of a blank that is for a regular fly rod? Would that "3 line weights over rule apply"? I'm just getting into this so maybe I'm asking dumb questions but if a fly rod blank was rated as a 7/8 by the manufactorer why wouldn't it cast a 7/8 line? Maybe switch rod blanks are just naturally beefier than single hand blanks? I appreciate all the information-p-

It seems like anymore I am never fishing a line on a rod that matches the rating... My 4 has a 6 weight line on it for short carp casts, my 6 has an 8 because I don't own an 8 weight light enough to bass fish all day but the 6 weight line won't throw the flies...

I put a 10 on my 8 all the time. Tried fishing an 8 on a 5 for pickerel last winter, worked ok but the 5 weight was a noodle rod, and it was a little harder to switch directions if you messed up the cast. On the other hand, most budget rods these days can easily do that 1-4 lines up anyway. Tried a 13 on a 5/6, that was interesting to say the least.

LHD,

Sounds to me like you probably learned to cast a fly rod before almost everybody quit making anything except fast action rods and most of the "pros" forgot how to cast anything else.

I'm sure you know that over-lining simply slows the rod action down and under-lining makes it "faster." And while fly line weight ratings are standardized (Rio and SA have taken a few minor liberties with this in the past 2 years with some specialty tapers), the rod weight stamped on a rod is merely a "suggestion" from the rod company as to a starting point from which to work to find the right balance for your particular situation. But a lot of folks don't know this.

Suffice it to say that to sum up fly casting or the effects of different lines on different rods is a subject poorly represented by a few words on the repeat-a-nets.

I don't think a Mustang becomes a Corolla if you put an extra 200# of chicken fried redneck in it

OK Dave and Ken, you two play nice. Both of you know a lot about casting, but I'll side with LHD on this one.


There is so much more you can do by mixing line and rod sizes than just making a rod "faster" or "slower". You can tweek the performance of a rod to better match the fishing technique, conditions, distance, fly size, etc. by changing line sizes. But I tend to think that a certain level of casting skill is needed before most folks can tell the difference. For many casters, uplining just makes the rod easier to load and that is about as much details as is needed by many of them.

Anyway that's my 2 cents. I'm going back to the sidelines now.

Rex

whatever works, well, it works. Maybe just not for the next guy, for whom it does not work.

Rex,

If the rod loads "easier" with more weight beyond the rod tip, how will it UNLOAD?

And what is the definition of "faster" and "slower" rod action?

There are many other things you can do to "tweak" performance by changing tapers, suppleness, and other properties of fly lines. That is very true. But...see above.

Dave,

Adding weight to ANY car slows it down due to increased engine load and friction with the road surface...technically speaking. Ask any engineer, physics teacher, good mechanic, or knowledgeable driver.

Actually, I wasn't trying to be argumentative, I had a longer post typed up and then realized that it really was too broad a subject for a simple post.

Ken, you entirely missed my point.