This was the question and you could clearly see that the free offerings where eaten without any problems
Josh did also did not ask about the tubing later on in the video
Its very easy if you see a video and act on it after all its a video and in real fishing you dont see all that you dont get an indication no runs no nothing just another night where you only get a small fish or no fish at all

I fish in a lake with 6 guys and nobody else is fishing it its 2500acres
4 guys are fishing corn with corn baits for a very long time more then 10yrs now
They catch a lot of small carp 10-15pounds with some 20-25pounders
They have a total score of 3 thirty pounders over all these years

Me and my mate rick we fish big boilies and do a lot of prebaiting if the fish is feeding well
We have a photo file of 3oo different fish that we have caught over the yrs between 25- 42 pounds
With more than half of them over 30pounds
And we never catch anything under 20pounds
We keep rigs very simple and it works we still are catching and catches are getting better every year
The other 4 guys have more and more problems to catch regardless what rigs they are using

so you are saying that the reason the carp was ejecting the hook bait with out getting hooked was because they, the carp have learned how to eat corn with out getting hooked because of fishing pressure and they ejected the bait with the rig because they knew it was a rig or feel threatened by it?

I say that they eat the hook bait with the same agressiveness as the free offerings I counted 7 takes in under 2:30, but it was simply not a efficient rig as you can see in the video the hair was pulled at a 90 degree angle away from the fulcrum of the hook point causing the point to either not twist in the fishes mouth towards the bottom lip or the hook to not enter the fish's mouth at all as seen at 0:45, 0:58, 1:41 (clearly shows the rig malfunctioning) 2:07 and 2:11 I counted at least 7 takes that didn't hook up in under 2:30 I would say that was pretty aggressive feeding and all of those takes but 1 was due to the rig not being effective...

At 4:00 the rig is switched from the one that was used at the beginning when all the fish where missed. After the Rig is switched you can see the effectiveness 5 hook-ups on six takes...then at 7:31 you can see that its back to the same rig type at the beginning where the hair is totally going the wrong way and the fish aren't able to get the bait in there mouths...7:55 is the perfect example of this you can see the rig is all jacked up and tied weird and the hook is not at a very aggressive angle when picked up by the fish....it dose finally work after the same fish made 3 attempts at eating it.
at 8:15 it picks back up with the the same rig from the last take it is the fox lead but the hair looks like it is still messed up watch 8:15- 8:30 you can see the bait is pointing away from the hook and it took 3 takes again to hook up...the last hook up shows the rig with the tubing again...

i feel these videos can do no justice...

just bc one video shows a hook up after 5 takes
and one shows a hook up after the first take

None of us watch our hook bait all the time and therefore can
never really know how many times its picked up and blown out

even if there are 300 videos on the internet about it
thats still nothing compared to how many lines are in
the water over a period of time trying to catch these
fish to justify this and that.

[quote=LoneStarCarper]so you are saying that the reason the carp was ejecting the hook bait with out getting hooked was because they, the carp have learned how to eat corn with out getting hooked because of fishing pressure and they ejected the bait with the rig because they knew it was a rig or feel threatened by it?

I never said enything about angling pressure its the other side in your case
Big carp are eating bigger food items like big swan mussels thats why they are bigger
Eating small items like corn is not naturel for them and if they eat it it becomes clear to them that the hookbait reacts different then the free offerings
You can only solve this problem by using different , bigger sizes of bait even different shapes boilies( flat ones)
Every time they have to suck harder or not so hard to get them in there mouth then its more likely if your going to catch them with a rig

what they do is help the angler understand what is going on with there rigs once they hit the water and how they behave...you can have the best rods, reels, pod, bait...what ever but if you do not tie good rigs that are efficient at hooking fish your just not going to catch...look at Big English for example

lol, yeah, i understand that definitely, as i have had trouble with the hair rig when i first started out, but after doing a few
different ties and messing around with it, i found what works for me. I was just saying i guess, these videos do no justice as to how many times a hook bait might be picked up and tossed back down before the hook up comes, bc that is something we can never really know.

Zach I agree 100% but a simple basic hair rig will do just fine
And if you have some problems just make the hooklink shorter or/and the hair longer
Thats ALL you need to do

Leo, that is exactly what i did

seems that once i shortened my hook length and made a bit longer hair, hook ups were more successful

just look at that video again crago and imagine the hais being 3/4inch long and the hook link shorter you could have caught them all
And you are right if your fishing you dont see all that you maybe have some twitches at the rod tip...you think it must be catfish
But you can learn from a video its just that everybody has a different explanation af all this trying to find out how to solve the problems take a long time BUT ITS STILL FUN!!

Having fun jesse

lol yes, its very fun and its cool to see how the carp feed!

hopefully jesse is on his way here! so we can wet a hook, doin a good session today,evening,night,morning! hopefully someone can pull in a 20 from my swim, be it carp or buffalo!

I think the problem was in the video the hair was to long and the suppleness of braid led to a ineffective rig where the hook point didn't get in the fishes mouth or when it did it wasn't situated at an angle to hook the carp...

I just tied up 2 rigs on the floor and took some photos to demonstrate what I mean, one is a rig that is a copy of the one in the video the other is one that I use that has a small ring attached both are very simple rigs...

My rig with the ring...


what it would look like (in theory) when it was inhaled by a fish notice the angle of the hook point...


what it dose during the blow back or when the carp exhales, the bait leaves and causes the hook to get the fish in the bottom lip.


now a rig to copy the one in the video


what it would look like during the take, if you look at 1:41 in the video you can see it looks just like this and eye of the hook keeps the bait from going in the fishes mouth.


and when the fish blows it back out the chances of hook up are very low hence all the pick up's with no fish in the video

I know what you mean zach the bottum one is no good because the hook turns the wrong way
BUT...you can have the same result if you just whip the hook knot 3/4 up the shank of the hook that way it wont turn and you dont need complecated rings they make the whole hook bait havier to ...dont you think?
And this is a pretty BIG bait so you DO select the bigger fish

Leo, I only catch the big fish

yes you can whip farther down the shaft but I like to have the entire hook able to get in the fishes mouth with half the shaft whipped you lose 1/3 of the hooking area it will work but I think it leads to shallow hook sets if that makes sense also with the ring the bait has the ability to revolve around the hook shaft and its much easier for the hook to turn in the fish's mouth and I think gives you a much more effective rig...with it whipped up the shaft the bait can turn the hook where as with the ring the bait revolves around the hook allowing it more range of motion to get a good "bite" inside the fishes mouth...I sort of confused myself but it still makes sense, I think...

I never make a short knot like that because the hook moves the wrong way it even tangles up the cast some times
The hook has to follow the bait the correct way in to the mouth and the lenghts of the hooklink finish the job
If you have doubts about not grabbing enough flesh just take a bigger hook it lands better in the fish its mouth where its better to hook in the bottum lip
I never worrie about the whippings making the shank thicker after all a lot of guys are using tubes over the knot and they dont have problems to

I normally run the line the other way but i was going to put shrink tubing over the eye and a small part of the hook to stiffen it up just a tad...but then I decided that I didn't want to boil water and it would also complicate things

I was real lucky to have a friend like kevin maddocks
He showed me a lot of stuff and showed me how to have fun doing stuff like making your own bait and tie your own rigs
Its all nice in theory but every lake needs adjusting a bit
Still feel real bad losing contact over the years

didn't he get busted for stealing carp from france or something? I have a early edition of carp fever....his idea of the sound of a bait hitting the water attracted fish on some venues so he would fish one baited rig with out any freebies but just throw rocks in the area that were the same size as his lead was brilliant...and it worked.

He bought withy pool and that water was known for small wild carp until he bought it
In 2-3yrs time the water was full with very big carp and catfish
They could never proof it was stolen ...but..
But he was a brillant angler there is no doubts
If you have a VERY early copy of carp fever my name is there as a good friend
But I knew him as the editor of the BCSG and I was the european repr of the BCSG so we became good friends

Brett Page 4 the rig I tied with the ring is very simple and easy to tie and I think its probably the most efficient at hooking fish with the least amount of fuss and it can be used with any type of bait. If you would like I can show you a simple way to tie the rig with a ring it takes the same amount of time or less then a standard hair-rig

Leo, to answer Josh's original question about the video... I am still going with the reason so many fish ate but did not get captured in that video was a poorly tied rig

I am going to go see what I can find in my copy of carp fever its in a tote down in the garage somewhere...

for everyone else, get on ebay or amazon and get carp fever its a very cool read and really a in site into the early days of carp fishing

Cool video none the less! Now I wanna go Fish!

Zach the ring rig seems to make a lot of sense, if you could post something showing how to construct the rig it would be awesome.

I will post photos in the morning

simple blow-back/anti-eject rig

start with this I am using snakeskin and a 3mm steel ring from prologic


strip off some of the plastic coating if you are using a product like snakeskin and tie your overhand loop like you do normally then slide the ring onto the line and tie another over hand knot to hold the ring in place like this


just slide the ring onto the hook and run the hook length through the eye


and snell the hook like you would a normal hair-rig a simple and easy anti-eject rig that should keep you from missing fish like in the video



its pretty simple it just looks more complicated...when I figured out that I could just tie the ring on the hair and stick the hook through it, it was like a ooohhh yeah moment...hope this helps