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#3815706 - 08/14/09 07:11 AM Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass
TawakoniSpecial Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 44
Loc: Dallas, TX
Noticed that Tawakoni has been stocked with both hybrid species, the palmetto being one with striper eggs, and the sunshine being the one with white bass eggs (source=TPWD 2006 lake survey).

I was wondering if these subspecies are discernable, and if one has a better growth rate, mortality, etc.?


_________________________
Mike T.

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#3815793 - 08/14/09 07:45 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
slabnshad Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 1634
Loc: Graham, Tex. 76450 On the La...
Wichita Falls biologist tells me they are basicly the same,
the only thing they are not sure of is catchability, but it
would be hard to compare if both types stocked at same time.
Reason for this type of cross, White bass eggs more availability
earlier.
_________________________
Dennis

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#3815895 - 08/14/09 08:22 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
"Da" NITRO Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 4175
Loc: Shady Shores, TX
The Palmetto Bass is known as the original cross and was first performed sometime in the 60's. Later they created the Sunshine bass, by using the resiprocal of the Palmetto. I've never read or heard of anything that says one cross is better than the other, but I have to think that the Sunshine is the better of the two, otherwise they would have just kept on with the Palmetto cross. If someone knows, I would be interested in hearing it.
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#3819127 - 08/14/09 05:22 PM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: "Da" NITRO]
BigDad Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 10/16/03
Posts: 2286
Loc: Flower Mound, TX, USA
I beleive the Palmeto gets bigger than the Sunshine. Not sure if that makes it better though.
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Joe

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#3820665 - 08/15/09 01:36 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: BigDad]
TawakoniSpecial Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 44
Loc: Dallas, TX
Thanks for the info, guys! Short of asking a staff biologist at TPWD, TFF is one of the best resources I can think of.
_________________________
Mike T.

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#11729733 - 07/18/16 10:02 PM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
hook-line&sinker Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 8993
Loc: Bryan, Texas
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Check out FishTales @ http://www.theeagle.com/blogs/fish_tales/

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#11729778 - 07/18/16 10:38 PM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
Tx Tree Grower Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 773
Loc: Palestine, TX
I was told that TP&W purchased the sunshine bass from an independent hatchery to make up for a shortage from the state hatchery. Seems like most of the major lakes have all received a few. Some more than others.

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#11729839 - 07/19/16 12:00 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
texashelms Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 170
Name come from which eggs and sperm they cross.

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#11729861 - 07/19/16 03:25 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
CypertJ Offline
Angler

Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Canton, Tx
Pretty interesting article. Thanks for sharing.
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You can kill a fly with a sledgehammer,
But do you really need to son???

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#11730339 - 07/19/16 10:41 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
big D Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 165
Loc: Brookshire, TX
One of our home lakes was stocked with both types a few years ago and I can tell a big difference...

See cooler of what I believe to be palmetto hybrids with a sunshine hybrid on top. The sunshine color pattern is more of a greenish blue like a striper with more distinct stripes. The palmetto hybrid color pattern is similar to a white bass and has less distinct stripes and more broken.

What are your thoughts?


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#11732244 - 07/20/16 08:20 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: hook-line&sinker]
Fishbreeder Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 1271
Loc: Brazoria County, Texas
Originally Posted By: hook-line&sinker


Great article. Two of my good friends and cohorts did a lot to make these two combinations of hybrid-striped bass available for Texans. Both are gone now, but their legacy remains in our rivers, lakes, reservoirs, public hatcheries, private fisheries, on dinner plates and fishing lines around the world.

The Palmetto Bass is the "Original" cross of female striped bass with male white bass. Others crosses have been tried including with yellow bass. This fish and technique was brought here by TPWD biologist, Ed Bonn, whom I worked with when I was a lot younger in E. Texas. I learned then that the "original" cross is the superior one in most respects. This is still the most sought after of the two crosses by public fishery managers. TPWD Hatchery manager, biologist Rob Schmid, quoted in the above article. closer to my age and a long time friend did a lot to make the AE Wood Hatchery the best it could be in difficult times. He died on the job there, one of the good guys and sorely missed by all. Along with a lot of others, those two guys did as much as anybody for this fish in Texas.

More common in the marketplace is the "reciprocal" cross or "sunshine" bass. Female white bass crossed with male striped bass. This is what you see stocked in most private waters and being raised on farms as a food fish. While this is the lesser of the two crosses for many reasons, it is the more common because of the better availability of ripe white bass females for breeding.

Capturing mature, ripe, female striped bass is very difficult and most of the good "spots" are closed to fishing (except of course to the state). So almost all originals are from public hatcheries with the support of an entire network of biologists and technicians to help acquire breeding stock from public waters.

When it comes to raising the things, right from the getgo the originals are a lot easier. The eggs are bigger, the fry are bigger and they are a lot stronger and able to thrive in the typical hatchery scenario. Still the reciprocals are so much easier to get breeding stock, that is the one raised on almost all commercial farms. The eggs are tiny, the fry can only eat the tiniest of specialized, live grown plankton diets and conditions must be perfect to get them to live and grow to a fingerling.

From that point, a fingerling, both are pretty easy to grow and raise. They readily feed on pellets and grow fast to stocker size.

You may find the reciprocals in private lakes and ponds, on your plate at the local Chinese eatery, and in some public waters. But you will only find the originals in public fisheries open to the public for fishing.

As to telling the apart once grown, I think there may be a difference in their tongues.

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#11732848 - 07/20/16 01:20 PM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: Fishbreeder]
BrandoA Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 2796
Loc: Marble Falls
Originally Posted By: Fishbreeder
Originally Posted By: hook-line&sinker


Great article. Two of my good friends and cohorts did a lot to make these two combinations of hybrid-striped bass available for Texans. Both are gone now, but their legacy remains in our rivers, lakes, reservoirs, public hatcheries, private fisheries, on dinner plates and fishing lines around the world.

The Palmetto Bass is the "Original" cross of female striped bass with male white bass. Others crosses have been tried including with yellow bass. This fish and technique was brought here by TPWD biologist, Ed Bonn, whom I worked with when I was a lot younger in E. Texas. I learned then that the "original" cross is the superior one in most respects. This is still the most sought after of the two crosses by public fishery managers. TPWD Hatchery manager, biologist Rob Schmid, quoted in the above article. closer to my age and a long time friend did a lot to make the AE Wood Hatchery the best it could be in difficult times. He died on the job there, one of the good guys and sorely missed by all. Along with a lot of others, those two guys did as much as anybody for this fish in Texas.

More common in the marketplace is the "reciprocal" cross or "sunshine" bass. Female white bass crossed with male striped bass. This is what you see stocked in most private waters and being raised on farms as a food fish. While this is the lesser of the two crosses for many reasons, it is the more common because of the better availability of ripe white bass females for breeding.

Capturing mature, ripe, female striped bass is very difficult and most of the good "spots" are closed to fishing (except of course to the state). So almost all originals are from public hatcheries with the support of an entire network of biologists and technicians to help acquire breeding stock from public waters.

When it comes to raising the things, right from the getgo the originals are a lot easier. The eggs are bigger, the fry are bigger and they are a lot stronger and able to thrive in the typical hatchery scenario. Still the reciprocals are so much easier to get breeding stock, that is the one raised on almost all commercial farms. The eggs are tiny, the fry can only eat the tiniest of specialized, live grown plankton diets and conditions must be perfect to get them to live and grow to a fingerling.

From that point, a fingerling, both are pretty easy to grow and raise. They readily feed on pellets and grow fast to stocker size.

You may find the reciprocals in private lakes and ponds, on your plate at the local Chinese eatery, and in some public waters. But you will only find the originals in public fisheries open to the public for fishing.

As to telling the apart once grown, I think there may be a difference in their tongues.



Thank You sir.

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#11733067 - 07/20/16 04:00 PM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: big D]
don the angler Offline


Registered: 09/05/01
Posts: 4823
Loc: Dallas,Texas,USA
Originally Posted By: big D
One of our home lakes was stocked with both types a few years ago and I can tell a big difference...

See cooler of what I believe to be palmetto hybrids with a sunshine hybrid on top. The sunshine color pattern is more of a greenish blue like a striper with more distinct stripes. The palmetto hybrid color pattern is similar to a white bass and has less distinct stripes and more broken.

What are your thoughts?





Talk about an old topic. Anyone notice this conversation started in 2009? grin
My boat landed an exact replica of the fish on top in the photo today. It had two tooth patches & was about 15 inches, so we released it. They show up at times, but the normal hybrids are more common on LL.
_________________________
Lake Lewisville
We Were There Yesterday!
www.dontheangler.com





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#11734056 - 07/21/16 08:17 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
yakkityyak Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/27/15
Posts: 44
Loc: McKinney, Texas
I thought one was stuffed with peppers. learn something new every day

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#11736123 - 07/22/16 08:53 AM Re: Difference between Palmetto and Sunshine Bass [Re: TawakoniSpecial]
ictalurus29 Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 1
Loc: Abilene, TX
You can't visually tell the difference between a Palmetto and a Sunshine. Differences in growth between the hybrid types is poorly understood.


Edited by ictalurus29 (07/22/16 08:54 AM)

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