Small Block 400, 350, 305, 327, 302, 283 and even 265.

I'm still confused.........and without my glasses I doubt I can tell a IM8 from a 10.

Well my blanks are IM8 our main seller but I am as confused as the rest? I have bought and used IM10 that they don't make but I am being told other wise like I said not being a smart a-s here just don't know where this came from? But I just can not see this being the only company makeing IM fabric sorry. My blank guy buys and sell blanks all over the country and he is as confused as us when I told him to look at this he said OK we don't have IM10 so why do I buy IM10 blanks b/c some one made it up for marketing hearsay. I really don't know what to ask and only get this is the only company that makes IM I just can't see it sorry for being hard headed but that's how I am or aleast told I am LOL!!!!!

The sad thing is that I only know how to use a rod and not make one, but this conversation is pretty easy to follow.

It is clear that the IM10 is not a product of the Hexcel corporation (the original manufacturer of fabric for rod building) and the IM10 that is being used is from a another company. Not that I care...but someone should be able to look up the specs of the IM10 product and see how those specs compare to materials from Hexcel for IM6, 8 or whatever...

This thread also points out that there are MANY variables to rod building...which is just stating the obvious when we think of how many different rods we have used in our lifetime and how different they all were.

Bout sums it all up!

Good job Fuzzy!

Ok, I called and sent emails to some people I know at a few of the large OEM rod makers to ask for some clarity on this subject.

Quick answer - Most of the big names that call their rods IM6-9 are using Hexcel fabric. One person told me if it's made by a US based manufacturer and it's called IM6-9, it's most likely Hexcel fabric, even if it's made in Asia. The 2 manufacturers where I know someone that have "IM" series blanks confirmed they use Hexcel fabric. They did say however, the cheap rods using the IM6-9 labels are usually not made with Hexcel fabric, but with fabric made overseas that is "the same". No one knew if "IM6" and the rest are trade marked, but they weren't aware of anyone ever being sued. So in theory, you could label any rod IM6...IM9 and this may be happening.

They all said the same thing about IM10, it could be anything. There are some very high quality IM10 rods/ blanks. One of the guys I spoke with works for a company that makes IM10 rods and he would only confirm that they are higher modulus and tensile strength than IM9s. It was also interesting in that he insinuated they are using a Hexcel fabric when I asked him how Hexcel felt about using their naming style. He said they are not using Hexcel "IM10" fabric, but insinuated it was still from Hexcel and that's why the had a good relationship with them and had no trouble using IM10. But, the same guy warned that there are some very crappy rods/ blanks out there labeled IM10

They all also noted that modulus is only a small piece of the puzzle and isn't really good for anything but marketing unless your comparing rods from the same manufacturer and even that could be iffy. One guy told me his sales team was always pushing for higher modulus rods to compete and that's when the stopped listing their modulus. I won't say where this guy worked, but he pointed out that he wasn't aware of any domestic made rod that retailed over $200 and listed the modulus. He named of a bunch of manufacturers, some I'd never even heard of that make high end fly rods, and said to the best of his knowledge, none listed modulus. He said the main reason is that most rod makers of high end rods/ blanks use multi modulus fabrics for their rods/ blanks. The may use a high mod in the lower section and IM in the middle or tip. He said they use as many as 3 different fabrics in one rod.

It was interesting to go through this process. I communicated with 5 people at some of the largest rod/ blank makers based in the US, two of whom I know fairly well and they were all unbelievably secretive, even the two guys I know well. They were free with general information, but very tight with any specifics about their rods. Because the rod/ blank manufacturing business is so incestuous, most knew almost as much about their competitors rods as they did about their own and were freer with this info, but not as much as I'd expect.

So I'm sure that makes everything clear as mud.

Ok, got the IM10 figured out, but looked at a Bass Pro Catalog today and they had IM85.

Folks,

I'm pretty well versed in the basics of the mechanics of materials.

Modulus of elasticity is defined as



Here's the wiki LINK for those who are so inclined.

In layman's terms what modulus indicates is the the ratio of the deflection of a rod vs. the rods mass. Let's say that we have a fixture that the butt of a rod blank is placed in such that only a couple of inches of the butt of the rod is being used. The rod is positioned in the horizontal. We then measure the distance of the tip of the rod to the floor underneath. Next we apply a given load to the tip in the from of a weight. We then measure the distance of the rod tip under that load to the floor underneath. This distance is the deflection. The deflection is a function of the 'stiffness' of the rod blank.

Now the 'stiffness' of the rod blank has several contributing factors. The modulus of the material that the rod blank is made out of is one of them. There are others, among these are the blank diameter, and the mass of the blank.

With any tube one my increase the diameter of the tube keeping the wall thickness the same and get a stiffer tube. One may also increase the wall thickness without increasing the tube diameter and get a stiffer blank as well. The thing here is that doing either one of these two things will increase the mass, and thus the weight of the blank. Going to a higher modulus material is all about going to a material in which an intrinsically 'stiffer' material is utilized to gain 'stiffness' without increasing mass / weight.

There are complications. (Isn't there always....)

Unless there are design adjustments made, going to a thinner wall will cause the 'crush' strength of a blank to decreased, and the blank will become more 'brittle' as well.

There is a heck of a lot of engineering that goes into the design of a truly outstanding rod blank. Indeed, there is no magic number, etc. that can tell one just how good a rod blank will be. It's waaaaay more complicated that that.

TFP

My blank guy would never tell you where he gets them not even me it is very secrete but I would never ask all I can tell you is they are light and one of the best blanks on the market today I will back that up 100%. I will just keep makeing the IM8 like always and leave this to the bigger guys but I will sell you IM!) if you want it...

IM6, IM8, IM10, IM confused

Good read though. Robert you have one rod on your boat for lets say crank baits. What is it? Length action IM# brand name?

Most high end crankbait rods like Loomis are multi modulus. They use different fabrics for different sections of the rod. They may use a high modulus for the butt and a lower modulus or even a little glass for the tip section. I'm a crankbait fool and some might argue a fool in general :), so I have 4 or 5 different crankbait rods, ranging from 7' l/ml to 8' medium heavy.

If I had to fish all my crankbaits with one over the counter rod, I'd use a Loomis CBR903. It's a 7'6" medium with a very soft tip, but enough backbone to muscle big fish if you need to (caught me a 10+ in the trees at Fork). My only complaint is the handle is much too short. I'd prefer 10-10.5 inches from butt to the back of the reel seat. For the money though, I'd recommend you talk to Grant or some of the other custom builders on here. Any good custom builder can build you a better rod for the same cost as the Loomis and maybe cheaper.

I am confused for sure now.

Hey thanks Robert

The variables are endless and each manufacturer tweaks the materials a little differently. Anymore IM is more about marketing than anything else. How the rod performs for you in terms of sensitivity, strength, weight, etc. is more important.

I think Robert has made a Game Effort in trying to explain some Insight on the Term High Modulus Blank. I tend to think the same process( Gyspy- ism) goes on in the Lariat Rope Business. That being that several Companies taking Credit for Coming Out with the perfect Blend of Heel Rope, while in fact its tied by another Rope Company.
*not sure what This has to do with the price of Rice in China- but sounded good at the time

Either way, You gotta believe that Everyone seeks that special feel in a rod and Sometimes people just cant get there buying Them off the shelf at Walmart

I understand exactly where Robert R is coming from. That's why I've already started my process of building a rod and calling it "IM23" and making millions!

I worked in the golf industry and Callaway Golf as an example used several different manufactuers of its graphite shafts to keep up with demand. You could have 10 of the same drivers and not be sure the shafts all came from the same mfg. because the artwork is the same. This could also be happening in the fishing rod business as well. I'm not saying G Loomis is using blanks from China, but I can guarantee you BPS is! And this is not impling that China is not making some very fine knock-off blanks from G Loomis specs, but it is not the same quality as a G Loomis. PS: Robert R - Thank you for your time and sharing of knowledge. By the way, how do you measure the IM rating of a cane pole...ha ha!

Do any of you guys actually make your own rod blanks? Is it worth the process of trying? Also if you do what machinery or equipment do you have (for mass production)?

razorback

To the best of my knowledge, there are no custom builders making their own blanks.

Lots of sophisticated equipment required and very expensive.

No rod builders make their own blanks. Some of us have rod makers build special blanks for us that match specific requirements we have. Making our own blanks is just too cost prohibitive.

It is very expensive. Next time you're at Bass Pro take a look at any line of rods you like, say the BPS Johnny Morris rods. Note how many different sized rods you see in that line up. Each unique sized rod requires a mandrel and they aren't cheap, about $7-10k each. You might be able to use the same mandrel for a 7' medium heavy and a 6'6" medium heavy, but figure a 7' medium that has a different butt and tip diameter would necessitate a different mandrel. So figure 4 or 5 mandrels for a basic series of production blanks/ rods. Now you need a pressure roller to roll the blanks and an oven to bake the blanks.

this has been good post some good info