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#2731217 - 10/13/08 10:57 PM Re: In his own words...Spread the wealth around. [Re: Deputy Angler]
Oldfrog Online   sick
TFF Guru

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 12985
Loc: LA and TX
I'm getting selfish now, yes. I no longer employ three secretaries, I bought out my partners, I dont split sales commissions with young agents, turned off two phone lines, no longer rent the fancy office suite, nor do I pay to park downtown.

And you know what ? I clear nearly as much as I used to earn, but with 1/4 of the effort. Some years, I earn more if I get energetic.

Yes. I am selfish. Brand me. I'll wear it proudly. smile
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No, it wasnt me.

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#2731444 - 10/14/08 04:32 AM Re: In his own words...Spread the wealth around. [Re: Zeek the Greek]
Allison1 Online   sleepy
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 4188
Loc: Grand Prairie, Tx
Originally Posted By: Zeek the Greek
Allison (and others) - the fundamental difference in the two plans in this: McCain is talking about lowering everyones tax bill. Obama is talking about using refunable tax credits to redistribute income, NOT just 'tax cuts'.

Under the McCain ideas, if you already don't pay income taxes (which can be done on income up to about $40,000 for a family), then you wouldn't have a tax to cut. Under the Obama ideas, that same family would get additional refunds from the IRS, even without paying taxes.

That's the difference being thrown about. Tax reductions vs redistribution of income through taxes. The former is a bad idea & the latter is evil.


In my opinion, wrong. See above. The difference in McCains plan and Obama's is miniscule. Both require almost the same percentages from the tax rolls going into the non tax payers. Whether in the form of a tax credit or a dollar, the result is the same. Thats why they include the tax credits in their computations.

I remember back in the Clinton years. For those that remember you know what I am talking about. When there was a big debate over the funding for Medicare, the difference was actually small. I think I remember that govt spending per person was around 4000 dollars per year. The proposal before congress was the increases spending to medicare by either side. The difference in spending by the two parties plans was something like 300 dollars however the Democrats would go on tv on show after show maintaining that the Democrats plan was right and the Republican plan was going to ruin the welfare system. They made the same talking points even while the interviewers were pointing out the small differences. Well, the public obviously didn't know the details and the Democrats finally won and made the Republicans the bad guys. In so doing the Democrats made the Republicans seem as though they were against welfare.
This is what you come up with. Not comparing. When the comparison is there labeling one as tax cuts and the other as redistribution of wealth.

Right. If you care for demonizing and winning your point you may make that stick. If you care about fairly putting out comparisons your views are the same ilk that the Democrats practiced on the Republicans.
The result is that both McCain and Obama are planning to assist the nonpaying or lower income of this country. Rather than come out for or against you think the differences are good or evil.

Shame Shame and the public will stay ill informed. I read several articles that were the same cut and paste as PH posted above about Obama's plan. None made mention that McCains were almost the same. Or even mentioned McCains tax plans. Goooood demonizing.
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#2731974 - 10/14/08 07:29 AM Re: In his own words...Spread the wealth around. [Re: Allison1]
Zeek the Greek Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 2056
Loc: Lewisville
Allison, that's as fair as a comparison as I can come up with. McCain is talking about lowering taxes on everyone who pays them. Obama is talking about giving refunds to people who don't pay income tax in the first place.

Look up 'refundable tax credit' if you haven't already. Frankly, I think reducing taxes at this time is insane, as all it does it pass the financial burdens of yesterday and today onto our children & grandchildren. Which president had the catchphrase 'the buck stops here'? Was it Truman? In any event, that's what we need now; to stop passing the buck to future generations. Government needs to quit SPENDING so bloody much & use taxes to pay down it's own debts first.

We might accomplish this with lower taxes (low chance), but we'll never accomplish it by redistributing income. Those are the facts of the matter. If you don't like them, I'm sorry for you. See? no demonizing of anyone there.
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#2732041 - 10/14/08 07:42 AM Re: In his own words...Spread the wealth around. [Re: Zeek the Greek]
Mario-Bass man Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 11/07/06
Posts: 2870
Loc: Garland
One point I will take issue with you on Zeek. By reducing takes you put more people to work thus creating a larger tax base--it's been proven time and time again.
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Politicians are like diapers--they should be changed often and for the same reasons

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#2732057 - 10/14/08 07:45 AM Re: In his own words...Spread the wealth around. [Re: Mario-Bass man]
Zeek the Greek Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 2056
Loc: Lewisville
Mario, yeah, that's true to a certain point - and I don't pretend to know where that 'sweet spot' is. I've been learning how the tax system works in studying to be an enrolled agent, and it's amazing to me that families can earn up to about $38K to $42K without paying a penny in income tax, and that below that level, they can get huge refunds of money they never paid.

That's just horribly unfair. If the politicians who dreamed this up think it's necessary to give money away like that, they should use their own money, not that of the taxpayers (who by definition are not low income).
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Certified Affordable Housing Specialist - ask me about assistance programs for first time homebuyers!

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