Question for you perch jerks in lake fairfield how did the hybrid bluegill come about ?Also does this hybrid reproduce?What is the record for these perch? Had a guy ask me and I couldnt answer I know yall know

There a tons of natural hybrids among the different sunfish species, but most of the monsters caught at fairfield are a hybridized mix of bluegill and a green sunfish. There are also lots of Coppernose Bluegill. They are stocked by TPWD as forage for the redfish population. The ones that make it a year or two get BIG. As far as reproduction...I'm not positive, but we've caught lots of both types full of eggs.
It's my understanding that most of the development on hybrid sunfish species was for faster growing forage. As somewhat of a side affect, they have also become a popular game fish as well as for stocking small impoundments.

Hope that helps

Thanks for the info I guess the warm water and forage they just grow larger than the ones people have in there stock ponds.I sure wish the crappie did that good in fairfield

I've been studying a hybrid bluegill (the Georgia Giant) for a few years now in a small stock pond and based on my experience I'd offer the following:

1) Yes, they reproduce, but generally not as many offspring as native BG. The hybrids are a high % male, about 80% or so, and this contributes to reduced offspring and also may contribue to increased growth.

2) the World record for them is something just over 5 pounds.


If you are interested in reading about my study results with them so far go to my web site and read the section on TGG (Texas Georgia Giants)

Thanks a 5 lb perch man oh man wonder how many grasshoppers he could eat in one day .That would have to be the ultimite fight on light line

Great webpage Meadowlark. Very interesting and educational. Can't wait for more updates!

I had a coppernose in my aquarium for awhile. What a monster! That thing grew so quickly and was so aggressive. After eating all of the smaller crawdads, at three inches it attacked, killed, and ate the 3 inch crawdad.

Yep, the coppernosed BG are a great fish...but they are not a hybrid.

Meadowlark, are the coppernosed BG a separate strain from regular BG similar to the difference between Florida strain largemouth bass compared to native Texas strain largemouth? Where did coppernosed BG originate?

Jon,

Yes, that is a good analogy. The coppernosed BG (CNBG) are native to Florida and have about the same range as the Florida LMB. They are a separate strain of BG and not a hybrid.

Yep, and if you ever want to get into some, head down to St. Cloud, FL and flyfish East Lake Toho. There are some beauts down there.

The use of the term "strain" refers to a genetic strain. That means they took the original species (largemouth bass) and altered it genetically. I'm assuming that's the same way the coppernose was developed.
The question is, how do they genetically change the species? Isn't it usually through hybridization?

This has got me curious. I'm gonna have to do some research.

It has me curious too. I believe that the hybrids we normally think of are a cross between one or more different fish (species?) Example hybrid striped bass from Striped Bass x White Bass, or the Georgia Giant sunfish - mixture of more than one different sunfish species. Or in animals, a mule for example cross between a donkey and a horse. I think these are all true hybrids. Maybe the genetic "strain" thing might be considered a sub-species - with different genetic material but still within the same species like the Florida strain LMB is different from other LMB. Like in people, we're all one species and if a guy from the Amazon basin has children with a woman from China, they'd exhibit characteristics of both parents, but those children would not be hybrids - still the same species.

I bet those orange bordered fins we see on some of the Fairfield monsters are actual true hybrids where as the CNBG might be considered a sub-species of bluegill. Not sure if sub-species is the correct word, but meaning genetically different while still within the same species.

This is all guessing on my part and somewhat confusing to me what the technical difference is between crossing between different species for hybrids and genetically altering within a species through selective breeding (or nowdays with more direct methods). We need that Fish Lady person to chime in and splain all this stuff. I should have paid better attention in Biology class!

Yah, the orange on the fins points to green sunfish. I see a lot of bluegill / green sunfish crosses stocked by TPWD at various locations looking at their stocking reports. I think once the fish hybridize they will often backcross (breed with one of the "pure" species) again so over time you get some interesting mixes. It reminds me of American Buffalo (the mammal), think I had read that even the most remote herds show signs of domestic cow blood. I guess by that standard it is probably a given the sunfish you catch is not a pure species of anything.

Here is one I catch a lot on Lake Lewisville, the almost colorless bluegill.. To me it seems like some crappie genetics but probably more likely just the adaptation to a an open muddy lake. A lot of the largemouth are almost completely white too.

Good infomation guys. Thanks.

The coppernose was not "developed"...at least by human intervention. It is a naturally ocurring sub-species of BG. Do some web searching and you can easily confirm this.

For example, from the web:

"Coppernose is not a Hybrid


Coppernose bluegill have been around for a long time. They are only one of three recognized subspecies of bluegill (lepomis macrochirus). Coppernose (lepomis macrochirus purpurescens) is native to Peninsular of Florida. Coppernose bluegill have 12 soft rays on their anal fin as opposed to 11 soft rays found on the regular bluegill. Coppernose have fewer but wider vertical bars on their sides than do regular (common or native ) bluegill. Coppernose also have orange margins to their fins. Male coppernose has a broad copper band above the eye or forehead and are prominent during spawning season. Reproduction of the Coppernose is about the same as with most all bluegill.

They are not a Hybrid"

Yep, Meadowlark hit it on the nose. I found the same basic info.

I think that settles it for me. I'd say that "most" of the big gills we pull out of FF are Coppernose. The Florida connection might also have an impact. My guess is that they do well in the power plant lakes due to the higher water temperature like with the Redfish.

Then again...who cares...they all eat good. LOL!!!

Actually, that's probably a sign of a true pure CNBG.

IMO, and it's just opinion, there really isn't that much actual crossing of species that goes on naturally, e.g. BG x Greensunfish or for that matter Striped bass x White bass. Much of what is called hybrid, are actually variations within a species such as the CNBG which takes on many different color variations.

When humans get involved, we can force hybridization and when those hybrids reproduce in water bodies with pure strain genetics of species common to the hybrid, who knows what we get!