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#2266693 - 05/14/08 11:54 PM life jacket legal question
bdog1234 Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 42
I know it is a good idea to wear the jacket at all times, but that is another discussion. What is the law on life jackets? I know the kids have to wear them at all times, but for adults they just have to be on board right?

Game Warden checks the wife and I and our son is wearing his, and a compartment in our boat that is easy accessible has 6 jackets in it. There is nothing in this compartment other than the jackets, they are not buried, hard to get at, etc.

GW does not give us a ticket but tells us to keep the life jackets out in the open, basically on the floor of the boat. Is this a law or just his recommendation?

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#2266724 - 05/15/08 02:38 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: bdog1234]
lawmann Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 3711
Loc: Fort Worth

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#2266729 - 05/15/08 02:45 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: bdog1234]
triumph190 Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 212
Loc: Arlington, Tx
bdog
Try this, I think it will answer your question.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/boat/safety/life_jackets/

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#2266730 - 05/15/08 02:48 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: triumph190]
triumph190 Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 212
Loc: Arlington, Tx
Lawmann was faster. His works too.

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#2266948 - 05/15/08 05:31 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: triumph190]
rod_bender Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 58
Thank goodness he let you be. Those tickets are pretty steep, trust me.

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#2266974 - 05/15/08 05:46 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: rod_bender]
Michial Thompson Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 1831
Loc: Allen, TX
I asked the GW this exact question a couple weeks ago. His response was "readily available" is subject to his interpretation. He said that some GW's require them to be on deck, others are ok with them being in unlocked storage compartments, and others just want to know they are on the boat.

I keep mine in a compartment under my console, and it's a locked compartment. He told me that if he was to check me on the lake I'd get ticketed because the compartment was locked.

I also asked specifically about the throwable preserver. Same thing applies.

In my case this makes life a pain because all of my floor compartments get water in them at one time or another, and the only place I have that remains dry is under the console which is a locked compartment. I'm trying to figure out some alternative way to store them and yet keep them from blowing out or getting wet until needed.
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#2267164 - 05/15/08 06:46 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Michial Thompson]
triumph190 Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 212
Loc: Arlington, Tx
I have a cc bay boat and I can wrap my life jacket around the back seat and clip the buckle which makes it "readily available" and keeps it from blowing out of the boat. Also, before buckling the jacket I will run the strap of the life jacket though the handle on my throwable, keeping it from blowing out.

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#2267257 - 05/15/08 07:12 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: triumph190]
Michial Thompson Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 1831
Loc: Allen, TX
over time the sun will degrade and rot them and force you to replace them every couple three years.

My CC has high gunnels, and good rails for keeping people inside so the life jackets rarely ever get used. I cannot see replacing them every couple of years just because they've rotted out.
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#2267368 - 05/15/08 07:55 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Michial Thompson]
Pivo Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 198
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
On the topic of throwables, I heard that a 100' rope needs to be attached. Is this correct? I've been checked several times with no rope attached and no problems from the GWs. Maybe this is up for interpretation also.
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#2267374 - 05/15/08 07:55 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Michial Thompson]
triumph190 Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 212
Loc: Arlington, Tx
They are only hooked to the seat when I am in the boat. I take them out of my storage compartment while preforming my regular prelaunch routine. After I load the boat back on the trailer they go back into storage so they stay dry and out of the weather. The life jackets I have are over two years old and still look like new. I don't see sun rotting as an issue.


Edited by triumph190 (05/15/08 08:39 AM)

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#2267914 - 05/15/08 10:39 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: triumph190]
bdog1234 Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 42
Thanks for the replies.

I guess it all hinges on what "readily accessible" means.

I can see getting a ticket if they were locked up, or buried under a ton of other stuff but I think I will take my chances with the way they are.

I know there is some "readily accessible" language in the laws regarding firearms and I am sure if these life jackets were guns and I was stopped they would be considered accessible.

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#2267971 - 05/15/08 11:04 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Pivo]
Rocky Robison Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 1093
Loc: Lake Fork,Tx.
Originally Posted By: Pivo
On the topic of throwables, I heard that a 100' rope needs to be attached. Is this correct? I've been checked several times with no rope attached and no problems from the GWs. Maybe this is up for interpretation also.


Not to be legal, now if you want to pass the Coast Guard Safety Certification on a motorized boat, and get a sticker to place on the boat, which if some GWs see, they won't even check your boat. You need to have 20' of rope attached to the throw cushion. 100' of anchor rope attached to an anchor, fire extinguisher, a paddle(even with trolling motor), whistle or horn. This was what was required several years ago, it could have changed somewhat since then.

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#2268343 - 05/15/08 12:47 PM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: triumph190]
Michial Thompson Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 1831
Loc: Allen, TX
Originally Posted By: triumph190
They are only hooked to the seat when I am in the boat. I take them out of my storage compartment while preforming my regular prelaunch routine. After I load the boat back on the trailer they go back into storage so they stay dry and out of the weather. The life jackets I have are over two years old and still look like new. I don't see sun rotting as an issue.


I'm on the water 4 days a week, most all day. Just about everything cloth on my boat is sun bleached. I keep an auto inflateable in the top of my console so that if the water gets rough or I am running jugs or something where I feel like I might get thrown over I can grab it and put it on, and it's 18 months old right now and sun bleached. I haven't checked the threads to see if they are rotting yet, hope their not.

I have two seats in the back of my boat near the motor well, I will probably just put a snap from the bottom of the seat to the deck and use the space under them for the life jackets so that I can meet the requirements. Keep some old cheap toilet seat vests in there and all should be fine.
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#2268358 - 05/15/08 12:52 PM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: bdog1234]
Michial Thompson Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 1831
Loc: Allen, TX
Originally Posted By: bdog1234
Thanks for the replies.

I guess it all hinges on what "readily accessible" means.

I can see getting a ticket if they were locked up, or buried under a ton of other stuff but I think I will take my chances with the way they are.

I know there is some "readily accessible" language in the laws regarding firearms and I am sure if these life jackets were guns and I was stopped they would be considered accessible.



I agree 100% the law is a funny thing, especially when you look at the intentions behind the law, and the wording of the law you almost want to cry.

I used to keep my jackets in a storage compartment on my old tracker and never had issues when I got checked. I haven't gotten checked on the CC, but would expect that as long as I wasn't an a-hole to the warden I would probably pass the inspection with a verbal suggestion that I not have them locked up.

I've been working with law enforcement for about 12 years now, and one thing that seems to be consistant with *MOST* of them is that they will cut you some slack if you talk to them with respect and not try to act like you know more than they do. But there is always one or two that will ruin your day just because they are still pissed at the last guy they checked.
_________________________
Michial Thompson
http://www.jailsoftware.com
http://www.michialthompson.com

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#2269021 - 05/15/08 04:06 PM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Michial Thompson]
Big Red 12 Online   content
TFF Guru

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 19300
Loc: Crandall, TX
Nice site.
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www.hendrixrods.com / Pro Staff
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#2270598 - 05/16/08 06:08 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Big Red 12]
Larry in Tawakoni Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 204
Loc: East Tawakoni
All vessels under 16 feet (including canoes and kayaks) must be equipped with one Type I, II, III or V for each person on board.

Vessels 16 feet and longer, in addition to the Type I, II, III or V for each person on board, must have one Type IV which must be readily accessible.

From the way I read it, only the throw type has to be readily accesible. It does not say anything about the life jackets being readily accessible.

I would still not argue with a GW about it, but If i got a ticket for my life jackets being in storage..... i would definately fight it!
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#2270799 - 05/16/08 06:57 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Larry in Tawakoni]
Zeek the Greek Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 1872
Loc: Lewisville
Kids have to wear the lifejacket whenever the boat is underway - 'underway' means that you're not anchored, tied off or grounded - has nothing to do with whether the motor is on.

Adults aren't required to wear them while underway, but it's foolish not to have them on.
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My other girlfriends name is Lady Zaida ... she'll make you say WAHOO!

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#2270834 - 05/16/08 07:07 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Rocky Robison]
water_surge Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3818
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: Rocky Robison

Not to be legal, now if you want to pass the Coast Guard Safety Certification on a motorized boat, and get a sticker to place on the boat, which if some GWs see, they won't even check your boat. You need to have 20' of rope attached to the throw cushion. 100' of anchor rope attached to an anchor, fire extinguisher, a paddle(even with trolling motor), whistle or horn. This was what was required several years ago, it could have changed somewhat since then.


On this anchor with 100' of rope, is this just for the coast guard check? Cause I don't even carry an anchor. I used to, but lost it last year, and just never remember to replace it. I know that the day I need it I will curse my memory for not having one.
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We All Live Down Stream

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#2270884 - 05/16/08 07:26 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: water_surge]
Rocky Robison Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 1093
Loc: Lake Fork,Tx.
Originally Posted By: water_surge
Originally Posted By: Rocky Robison

Not to be legal, now if you want to pass the Coast Guard Safety Certification on a motorized boat, and get a sticker to place on the boat, which if some GWs see, they won't even check your boat. You need to have 20' of rope attached to the throw cushion. 100' of anchor rope attached to an anchor, fire extinguisher, a paddle(even with trolling motor), whistle or horn. This was what was required several years ago, it could have changed somewhat since then.


On this anchor with 100' of rope, is this just for the coast guard check? Cause I don't even carry an anchor. I used to, but lost it last year, and just never remember to replace it. I know that the day I need it I will curse my memory for not having one.


Yes, that is just for Coast Guard certification. Not required by TPWD.

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#2277567 - 05/18/08 07:14 PM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: Larry in Tawakoni]
j.steve Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 3105
Loc: CentralTexas
Originally Posted By: Larry in Graham
All vessels under 16 feet (including canoes and kayaks) must be equipped with one Type I, II, III or V for each person on board.

Vessels 16 feet and longer, in addition to the Type I, II, III or V for each person on board, must have one Type IV which must be readily accessible.

From the way I read it, only the throw type has to be readily accesible. It does not say anything about the life jackets being readily accessible.

I would still not argue with a GW about it, but If i got a ticket for my life jackets being in storage..... i would definately fight it!

In the link above, scroll down to "Lifesaving Devices" and read the first paragrah. PFD's have to be readily accessible

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#2278082 - 05/19/08 02:06 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: j.steve]
Big Red 12 Online   content
TFF Guru

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 19300
Loc: Crandall, TX
That is the only thing wigh GW's and I respect them totally. Is the consistency between one GW and another. It depends on HOW they interpret the law.
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www.westboats.com / Pro Staff
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#2278121 - 05/19/08 03:23 AM Re: life jacket legal question [Re: bdog1234]
FishingPhysicist Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 02/13/03
Posts: 7451
Loc: Tyler, Texas
What a peace officer interpretation of the law is, and what the courts interpretation interpretation is are two different things.

The newer Basscats have storage compartments between the running seats that is designed to hold a Type IV. I'm dead dog sure that the folks at Basscat would have checked with the Coast Guard about the readily accessibility of the Type IV PFD before they would have offered this feature on their boats.

Now if a Type IV PFD is stored in the Basscat Type IV storage compartment is considered readily accessible then having a Type IV PFD in another storage compartment that is accessible by just opening the lid to that compartment must also be considered to be readily accessible so long as there are no other impediments to accessing the PFD.

TFP
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