Hello,
I am getting maried and honeymooning in Cancun, late June early July, 2008. Hope you gents can offer some good suggested guides. We do not have the time or desires to drive 3 hours each, too and from Ascencion Bay. Would prefer to stay close to Canun / Isla Blanca

Thanks in advance,

Gray

I can't recommend any guides Gray but I can say, in advance, congrats to you and your bride!

Thanks, Robin. And I gotta think somebody here, will be able to make a decent recommendation...

I thought that Long haired Dave had been there but may be mistaken. I get all those south of the border places mixed up. Need to get down there and actually fish sometime
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gray check this out:

http://www.tarponcancun.com/our_guides.php

Book with them and fish with Alex Padilla if possible. I caught my first tarpons and snooks with him on fly last year. Short ride from Cancun, they pick you up and drop you back off at your hotel... like $275 and worth twice as much if you've ever had a guide in the US...

You'll fish Isla Blanca from a panga. Expect to bang out blind casts to mangrove roots from 50-70 feet away most of the time. He liked a slime line, and redfish bugs on #4 or #2 hooks. Be sure to have some bendbacks or other weedless flies, you really need your flies under the overhanging branches and sometimes you miss!

Dave,
Many thanks. I have sent our information into the website, as you suggested. And asked for Alex Padilla, also as you suggested. Let you know what happens.

Thanks again,

Gray

Well Dave,
We received a response. Alex is available. So, I plan to book him as soon as I get paid. Thanks again for your recommendation.

Best Regards,

Gray

That's great.... the tarpon and snook are small but they are a blast... kinda like bass fishing in a mangrove jungle! Plus you may get to hunt bones and permit-- when I was there, it was mid-March, and the flats were too cold for bonefish.

One of the most fun things we did that day is spend about an hour chasing barracuda on the flats. The first one I hooked burned my fingers and came 6 feet out of the water before breaking the hook! I think they allowed us to get closer than normal though, because I just got back from Ascension and we couldn't get within a fly cast of any big barracuda.

Dave,
Sounds great. On the website, they mentioned that they would pick you up from your hotel, the day before, and bring you over to the tackle shop and show you how to tie a few of the flies you will be using. Definitely want to do that, if possible. Permit and tarpon interest me most. But we will be happy fishing for whatever is biting.

Thanks again,

Gray

Have you ever fished permit? If you have, you'll appreciate this, if you have not, it kinda goes like this:

Guide: Permit! Permit! Permit! Permit! 11:30, 50 feet!
You: What?
Guide: See im? Permit! Cast now, cast, cast!
You: Nope. Where he's at? (You start your false cast anyway since you have a general idea of where you are going top cast.)
Guide: More left! No, more right, no left!
You: I got im! (The permit is actually 85 feet away. You're throwing a crab fly on a 9 weight, and the wind is blowing 15 knots straight into your face. Then, the permit suddenly leaves the flat for no reason. Total elapsed time: 2.3 seconds).

Never fished for Permit. But I get the idea. And I have fly fished lower Laguna Madre, where the wind blows like that, every f---ing time I go down there. F---ing wind folds up every other back cast. Hurts like a MF-er, when a fly with bead chain or lead eyes smacks me in the middle of my back, because my loop looks like a big loose pretzel. And I find that I cast best with the wind blowing from left to right, across me. And 85 feet will be an excellent challenge. With that in mind. I am going to spend a # of days sight fishing for carp at a nearby neighborhood pond, with my 8 wt. And despite all of the above, I still want to try and chase permit. Seems like a worthy challenge. And I love a worthy angling challenge. Besides I am working on a good side arm casting technique, which I feel will help, when casting in high wind. And just out of couriosity, has anyone ever thought of finding a way to put the angler higher in the boat. Not necessarily as high as the guide in the back poling. But, why not put the angler in better position to spot fish, and deliver a fly, in a quicker more accurrate way? I can spot stream fish Very Well. I watch video and view pictures. And I can see these fish. So I would like to think I can pick it fairly quickly. But this is why I scheduled 2 days with a guide. Can't decide if I should take my TFO Jim Teeny 8 wt and matching reel, or plan on using their gear. You fished with them. What do you think I should do? Fish with their stuff? Or bring my own?

Hopefully, I can get together with Robin to try a few permit flies before we go...

Thanks,

Gray

Gray, take your own stuff... they might have something, but I would assume they have nothing going into it... make sure you have your own leaders or stuff to build them (Check out the 30 meter spools of Vanish for $9 at Academy for a tarpon tippet), at least a handful of flies, etc. Besides you'll practice with your Teeny between now and then probably and it will feel good to you.

Sometimes you see a caster's platform on skiffs where the angler is raised up about 1 foot... helps keep you from stepping on the line as well. Best for that is to just lather up with sunscreen and go barefoot, or, wear socks on deck (not shoes).

Yeah you have to chase permit if you can. It's just a whole other world from bonefish.

Have you ever tied with sculpin wool? An easy permit fly is just tie a couple rubber legs on the hook, and some weight, and some mono eyes, and then just top it with a tuft of sculpin wool in white or tan or olive. Kinda like tying a salmon egg if you've ever done that either... or stacking deer hair (but much easier).

Gray,

The greatest Permit fisherman of all time never cast more than about 45 feet. His name was Del Brown and he passed away a couple of years ago. Del had arthritis(sp) real bad in his hands and yet was able to catch about 580 Permit over his lifetime.

I've fished with and studied studied under the guide who taught Del most of what he knew about Permit fishing. He has taught me that accuracy is critical, far more so than distance.

If you can hit inside a 12 inch diameter circle at about 50 feet in winds from most any direction, you've got an excellent chance to catch Permit.

Dave,
Thanks for the tips. I will try to take my rod. And if I am reading you correctly, I ought to just bring all my tying stuff, too. But AA is charging $50 per extra checked bag. So, that will cost an addtional $100, minimum. And I am not real sure what # flourocarbon I will need for tarpon and permit. I was thinking about like 12# bonefish leaders, for permit, with 10 or 12# tippet. What about Tarpon? Furthermore, I can stack and spin deer hair. But I have only briefly played with sculpin wool, and it was actually kind of intimidating. It didn't do what I wanted, at all. Any chance I could get you to join Robin and I at a Starbucks, or something, on a Saturday morning to try tying some of these flies? I'll buy the coffee and scones(if you are the scone type).

And just a couple of more questions. You fished with these guys. Are they going to try an put some cheep ratty old, heavy [censored] fly rod in my hands with heavier piece o' s--- reel? Is their equipment [censored]? Or what? I am expecting Tibor Reels on Orvis Zero Gravity rods... And they better be spooled with 3M Sharkskin fly line. And should I only plan on fishing with my own hand tied creations? If so, I got a lot of tying to do. And I will need some help figuring it all out. On the website, they say that they will bring you over to the shop, the day before and actually teach you how to tie the flies you will be using the next day. Is this true or just a BS sales pitch, intended to get you spend money in the store? Or are you just a control freak who is only comfortable fishing with their own equipment? Sorry for all the questions. Just don't want to go down there, unprepared for battle.

As always thanks,

Gray

Meadowlark,
Many thanks for the feedback. I will definitely continue working on my casting. Please feel free to offer any other tips you feel might be useful.

Thanks again,

Gray

Gray, isn't this trip your honeymoon? Taking your tying supplies and expecting to have enough free time to fish AND tie flies is probably not realistic. I would just take a bunch of already tied flies with me. Of course, that means that you'll probably have to buy some more flies when you get there and that may cost as much as the extra bag, but it will save time.

It is a little late for your trip, but we'll have several tier's that are good with wool doing tying demo's at Eisenhower State park on June 21. I'm sure one them would be happy to help you get better tying with wool.

Taking your own rod, reel, line, and leaders sounds like a smart move in case you are not happy with the equipment the guide provides. It will also allow you to fish if other fishing opportunities present themselves when you are not with the guide. The Teeny is a 4 piece rods so slip inside a big suitcase to save the extra airfare cost. (The $50 rule is annoying, but most of the airlines are starting to do it.)

Have fun,
Rex

Rex,
Thanks for the advice and heads up about event at Eisenhower. I will show up if I have the time and gas. But I am trying to give Long Haired Dave a hard time, for the sake of humor. Can I not have my fun? You are like worse than my Dad with all this seriousness... And can you offer any tips regarding the buying, tying and building of Tarpon leaders?

Thanks again,

Gray

I'll defer back to LHD for tarpon leader advise.

Rex

Gray been out of town all week,

might want to take your tweed jacket and Sherlock Holmes-style pipe to go with them high dollar equipments they're gonna loan ya

I really don't know about the whole fly tying tour bus thingamajig, but one thing you could try if you didn't want to mess with tying is just go to flyshack.com you can get the merkin there for like $1.50. and a bunch of other useful permit/bone/tarpon flies. You can't beat that price.

Leader tying is a long subject to type but you might should just buy "saltwater" 9 foot 12 pound leaders for bones and permit.

As for the tarpon take a spool of 25# or so flourocarbon (see Academy reference above) and maybe a 50# on the "Just-in-case" side. The stealth guys in Fla. use only 50-70# flouro for the 150# + fish so a single spool of 50 flouro will get it done.

You can keep your tarpon leader simple there, as I recall Alex had me put 2 meters of 40 or 50 pound then 1 meter of 20#. You don't need flouro for the butt section.

To be honest I didn't know whether they had gear or not so I just took mine. I booked them last minute while on the trip and already had my leader wallet and fly box and rod/reel so I didn't end up using anything of theirs.... or even see anything...

that and the control freak in me!

LHD,
Many thanks for the detailed response. I am definitely going to take my fly rod. And I will plan on following your advice on leader and tippet. However, I am going to try my hand at tying some flies, before paying for any. Just want to give it a try. The following is a copy of the last email I got from the fly shop, where I booked Alex.

Thanks again,

Gray

1. I plan to bring my 8 weight 9 foot Temple Fork Outfitters fly rod and matching reel. What kind of fly rods do provide and or recommend?

The guides used here #9 orvis, loomis or Thomas and Thomas the reels is nautilus ,orvis or loomis



2. Can you recommend a brand and type of fly line?

Only floating



3. What type and weight of leaders and tippet do you recommend?

12,15,20,25 lbs

4. I tie flies, as well. Can you recommend some to me? Please include hook size.

Black dead for tarpo ,crabs and crazy Charlies



5. Will we be fishing Isla Blanca?

yes



6. What specie of fish are easiest to catch during this time of year? I am most interested in catching Permit. Also interested in catching Tarpon and Bonefish.

Now is season the permit and bonefish and tarpon all year.



Will you have any trouble guiding me fishing with a fly rod and my partner with a spinning rod?


No any

I check with the administration area for send your cupon.



Tanks

Alfonso

OK Guys,I went to Backwoods, in Ft Worth over the weekend and purchased 8 wt saltwater taper Sharkskin, for my trip. Backwoods was the only place in DFW, I could find, that had 8 wt saltwater Sharkskin in stock. Also picked up 12# and 15# 9 ft SA leaders, and a spool of 12# flourocarbon tippet. Bought a pair of Mangrove Sungloves, sz small / medium. Tried them on, and one of the seams split. Will see if Backwoods will switch them out. Also picked up Echo's Micro Practice Rod. My cat loves it. Trying to build my arm strength in preparation, for Cancun. And I am going over to a buddy's house on Saturday, to try my hand at tying some Merkins and Crab patterns. Gosh I cannot wait... The anticipation is definitely half the fun. And by the way, LHD, I read your previous posts regarding taking a trip to Ascencion Bay, back in 2004 or 2005. Was that a different trip than the one you mentioned above? And if so, how did you do?

And Robin, when and where are we getting together for some more tying?

I fished w/ this guy about 6 yrs ago. He is intense and passionate about the sport. He'll find fish but you better have your s*** together.

http://www.cancunlighttackle.com/index.asp

Yeah I fished with Rodman last year too. I enjoyed his company, but, I didn't enjoy fishing the lagoon behind the hotel zone nearly as much as Isla Blanca.



You're ok on leaders for bonefish and permit then, now you need a spool of 50 and a spool of 20 for tarpon leaders.

You'll like the sungloves-- at least I did. Just wore them for a week in Ascension and they kept my hands happy. And my Ascension trip was like 2 weeks ago, not 4 years ago. It was a blast.

I believe that Saturday will be pretty well eaten up with non-fly angling life activities. But Sunday may well be open. At least some piece of it.

Robin,
Many thanks for the response. I will PM you if I have any time, on Sunday.

LHD,
Found Rodman Hunter's website on the Internet, earlier this year. I emailed and tried calling him, several times. Never got a response, and all of my calls got a recording, saying I basically had the wrong #. So, I am not sure what has become of Rodman. But, if you have any different or new contact information for him, please let me know. He definitely sounds like someone who enjoys and knows what they are doing. Sorry, I must have misread your post about Ascencion Bay. Who did you fish with there? And where did you stay? Pesca Maya? And I am planning to hit Bass Pro, Barlows or Academy this weekend for Tarpon leader material. Definitely plan on 20# and 50# flourocarbon. According to the baitshop through which I booked Alex Padilla, we will be fishing Isla Blanca. Can't wait. Saltwater Fly Fishing in the mornings. Beer and Tequilla by the pool in the afternoon, or on the beach. And hopefully, high end beef or seafood for dinner, and who knows what else...

perhaps some dominoes?

Fine cigars?

I went to Ascenscion Bay and did a long day trip driving from Playa Del Carmen to where the Pesca Maya guys are located. We had a tough trip because my spanish was rusty and we got put with a young inexperienced guide, wasted a lot of time chasing after baby tarpon in narrow mangroves and should have spent more time chasing bonefish because there was a decent population down there. The tarpon I saw down there, a straight 30# floro leader would have been fine (3-5lbers), but have never fished Isla Blanca to comment on how big the fish are there this time of year. I was wishing I would have done a trip around Cancun instead, as I drug my 12 year old on the trip and 2.5 hours of driving back and forth and one small bonefish was a beating and I struggle now to get him to go bonefishing with me on trips. Good luck around Isla Blanca, sure you will do well.

Wasted time? Have you ever hooked a tarpon? One eat is worth like 10,000 bonefish!!! I just got back from fishing a week there, a couple hours bonefishing in the morning then we went for the meat of the trip: fish that are strong!

And yeah the tarpon there, 20 or 25# flouro should do the trick nicely.

No, we were thinking something more like bridge. Except neither one of us knows how to play bridge...

Yeah, maybe we will try a good cigar after a good game of bridge, or something...

Dave - I will be after them again at the end of June in the Caymans - but this time I will have more than 20 feet to make a backcast with and have a feeling it will be time well spent.

that could make it a little easier!!!

Hey guys. I just learned to tie a crazy charlie and a raghead. Pretty fun. Gonna try to tie a Borsky's Slider, sometime on Sunday. But, I am also going to try and get some practice / carp fishing in, as well. We'll see... And a buddy of mine just gave me a DVD on bonefishing, filmed on Turneffe Atoll. Damn good stuff.

And Dave, I have looked for 25-50# flourocarbon at BPS and Academy, as you suggested. I could not find any, that heavy. Any suggestions? Otherwise, I am just going to order some of those hand tied tarpon leaders, by Rio, off the Internet.

gray, at Academy, they don't keep it on the aisle with all the line on 1/4 pound spools, they keep it on the aisle that has wire leaders and bobbers and stuff. It will be slightly bigger spools than tippet, and, the vanish is square in front. If you have to mail order, you may still save money buying the flouro over the leaders, you'll have to figure that out, but here's two links for the stuff:

Bass Pro Link


Cabela's Link

Gray, since you are tieing, be sure to have several of different weights and sizes. The more shallow the water, the less weight (splash on entry) you want. You will likely encounter fish in very shallow water of just a few inches to water 3 or 4 feet deep. In my experience which includes fishing the Mayan coast many times well south of Cancun, the Permit will be in the relaively deeper water and the bones in water so shallow you won't believe it. Your flies should match the color of the bottom you will be fishing.

Regarding Tarpon, I haven't fished specifically the area you will be in but have fished the Tarpon coast from Campeche up towards the area you will be in. This area is a great fishery for 10 to 30 pound Tarpon. Tremendous fun, as fun as anything I've ever done in the water...or elsewhere... That area isn't like the Keys where you can easily encounter 150 pound Tarpon. If where you are fishing is like that, i.e. no really large Tarpon, then don't spend a bunch of money on leaders you may never use again....keep it simple. The best flies I found for small Tarpon there are cockroaches, black death, and seaducers in that order...and 9 wt rod worked just great.

Hope you have a great time and great fishing!!!

Meadowlark,
Excellent advice. Will do as you suggest. What color seaducers, do you suggest? And what hook sizes?

Gray,

I'm a visual guy so maybe this picture will help better describe what works for me on Mayan Tarpon... better than my words....all work but the seaducer is the least effective of the three.



p.s. note the frayed bite tippet....that's what we're after!!!!

Gray,

I hope you found the above picture useful and in that same vain, I'm posting a picture of my favorite Mayan Bonefish and Permit flies. The two bonefish flies are a variation on the Gotcha (and that's no joke) and the Permit fly is a "match the hatch" fly for the small crabs in Chetumal Bay and produced two excellent Permit for me.

He used to split his fishing time between Cancun and Belize. (sucks to be him)

Rodman does (did)? Wow... a short boat ride from one to the other

Regardless of where Rodman spends his time, it sure would have been nice to receive even an email reply, saying "I'm busy right now. Buzz off." Anyway, hope Rodman is OK. But, I will not waste my time trying to call him, again...

Meadowlark,
Great pictures. I am actually about to sit down and do some tying. I will have to give one of those flies a try. Especially like the match the hatch. Let you know how it goes. Many many thanks.

Gray

danceswithquail have you fished Cayman before ?this month is kind of busy for me If you need info call me 345 548 4435
John Farrell

Gentlemen,
The plot thickens... I just got an email from Rodman Hunter. I explained to him, that he was our first choice. But, we went with someone else because he never responded. And I asked him why we should switch and book with him. Let you know, how he responds.

Experience with Latin culture tells me that Rodman is likely to be offended by my question. Too bad... Or as my Mexican friends like to say "Ni modo."

LHD,
Any chance you might post some pics of that most recent Ascencion trip?

Trust me, I'd love to share some pictures... but I have 8 gigabytes of pictures and video from the trip. I need to whittle all that down to maybe 12-20 pictures and maybe 3 minutes of video.

As you might know, that's at least 8 hours of work, if not 24. I went from Mexico to 5 days at work then back on a plane for a family thing out west for a week then right back to my regular work week, plus all my weekends have been shot because I'm either carp fishing or doing the house work that has piled up because since March 15 I was preparing for both trips every waking non-work hour.

By the time I get the pictures together nobody will care anymore but I still do!!!

LHD,
Unfortunately, I understand your situation. I am busy trying to tie flies for the Paluxy on Saturday, and tie flies for Mexico. Nice problem to have... Regardless, I will be vedry interested in seeing your photos, whenever ready.

Here are some pictures of Ascension Bay to give you a feel for the area:


This next one is one of my top fishing pictures of all time, and there aint a fish in it!




This is back in the mangrove canals, lots of ducking and pulling on mangrove trees to pull yourself through to get to little 15 yard openings to cast in. Not my cup of tea



Fish we caught off the beach in front of the hotel in Playa,
I would cast and kids would strip. Would have been fun on a 5 wt.