I'm a newbie at fly fishing and have some questions about all the leaders and knots.

I'm rigging up my 5 wt for some freshwater action - looking at a how-too book and it's showing at least 4 different leaders between the fly and the fly line. This seems crazy to me... can I just tie some 4lb test straight from the fly line to the fly, or maybe a mid size leader in between?

I don't see the need for all the different leaders and knots. Do they serve a purpose?

anyone else use their own setup for leaders?

Thanks,
Kevin

you can purchase a tapered leader instead of tying one yourself but the taper does help to turn the fly over during the cast
I am sure real experts will chime in as I am a "advanced" beginner
I love the loop knot for connecting leaders and the improved clinch or the polomar for leader to fly
here is a great website for knot tying
http://www.animatedknots.com/palomar/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

What you are looking at there is a segmentation that goes from heaviest section near the fly line and scales on down, lighter and lighter until one arrives at the fly. This is only one of several ways to accomplish the same thing - a tapering down from heavy to light. What this does is gives a graduated reduction of the energy from the cast so that the fly lays out nice and smooth instead of receiving an explosion of energy across a single section of straight mono.

Now, that can be more or less important depending upon the type of casting and the fly. Tossing a big old sinking fly would not require nearly so much, if any taper. Trying to put a small fly in a specific location would pretty much demand a nicely tapered leader.

Most fly shops carry manufactured extruded tapered leaders. They get the job done and are cheap. if you want to you can make your own, there are all kinds of formulas available online.

Furled leaders are another option.

rhyne,

thanks, that makes a lot of sense. i'm fishing for panfish so I probably don't have to have the precise presentation that trout anglers do.

I think I can do w/ out the loop knot as I won't be changing leaders much, just changing flies every now and then. I'll stage it down w/ a couple of leaders.

Thanks,
Kevin

I use 10lb mono for my leader and 8x for tippet; usually about 6' for leader and about 6 for tippet.

I got to thinking about the physics of it all - and I'm guessing that the loop knot serves a dual purpose: 1) quick change for leaders, and 2) absorbs a lot of energy since there's not 'direct' tie to the line.

Kevin,
You ought to be in good shape with that setup. A cool thing about this sport to me is that one can get as detailedly technical as one wants or just extreme K.I.S.S. and have a blast.

If you ever find yourself messing around on any of those skinny little creeks fishing for paranoid bream in tight water, you'll find yourself in a situation where those highly staged leaders shine.

Us lazy types like to avoid tying unnecessary knots hence the loop to loop....

For trout I use the tapered leader etc... Recently I just went to a flouro leader about 8 pd. That is all I use and I tie it straight to the fly. (No tippet) Now if I was fishing for trout...or in a stream...I would want the whole set up. But for lake fishing I don't think it matters. I have caught fish like crazy on my line at times. (at times I get skunked, which I hate....hehehe)

Yes you can and it will work fine....but you may find the addition of a section of heavier line, e.g. 15 pound test or so, between the fly line and the 4 lb test will make the fly lay out better.

There is an excellent post in this section on non-technical fly fishing by Cliff Hilbert. Check it out.....and have fun. Don't let the technical aspects get in the way of enjoying this great sport.

http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2235966#Post2235966

Schanz read my article "Non-technical Fly Fishing" posted on this forum, it will help you.

Robin's (rrhyne56) furled leaders are top shelf, in my opinion. I've used them for bass, panfish, trout...anything I've fly-fished for. They quickly pay for themselves and, if you're like me, you'll never go back to tapered leaders. My $.02, but I know others think the same way.

-lotsofshots

I love Robin's leaders. I need to get more from him. Try them you will like them....hehehe.

My question is why would I use a tapered leader THEN tie on tippet?
I understand the physics behind the tapered leader and the reason you use tippet (so your not constantly cutting and tyeing your leader)- but would you be just as well off with some other form of leader then tippet?

And my understanding is the leader tippet combination should be about 1 1/2 the length of your rod - so with a 9ft rod your leader tippet combo should be about 13' or so - or am I off on this?

that is exactly why tippet is tied to the end of the leader. You could buy those extruded leaders, they have tippet manufactured on the end. But after a few flies you'll either be tying tippet on to the end or attaching a whole new extruded leader with it's fresh piece of tippet section.

For warm water fishing the 1.5X ia probably a bit much and will be problematic to manage whenever a fish is landed or line taken up to move on etc. A four to six foot leader and a couple feet of tippet ought to suffice. Of course there will be fishing conditions where that 1.5X will be requisite but I am hard pressed to think of where in Texas that might be.

DANGER! Redneck in the house! I use plain mono 90% of the time and the fish I am after do not care. Will use(most of the time not always) tapered leader in the spring chasing white bass in rivers and creeks. Just get out and wave the stick at'um and find the dumb fish. That is what I do.

I agree with rryhne and these old fingers get pretty testy when i try to ty all those blood knots. I'm fishing for those big 'ol green backs in east tx and often tie a tapered leader that goes 25-20-15 or 20-15-12 it's a pain until you get a fussy fish running circles around the boat lookin for a brush pile!

The tapered leaders are great but evintually you have add to them and you end up with a 2 or 3 piece leader anyway. It's a good idea to learn how to tie them now instead of when you're standing in stream or on a bank.

good luck!

I've done all the above leader/tippet junk to some degree or another but for me in the water that I fish it just doesn't matter. For bass fishing in weedy ponds I'll use straight 12# to 20# mono sometimes doubled if there are really big bass around or lots of weeds. For sunfish I'll use whatever is on the flyrod with a 6# tippet because it really doesn't matter to me.. I use a lot of low-vis green mono and change it often. You must keep in mind what it is between you and the fish at all times and know how hard you can push it before it breaks. I don't like a lot of knots between me and the fish ever.. If / when your line is gonna break, it will be at the knot!

If / when your line is gonna break, it will be at the knot!>>>>>>>>>

Isn't that the truth! I feel the same way. I need to practice more on my knots too. I am knot challenged so to speak. I can do a palamor knot now thank goodness, it is a good one.

i do okay using uni-knot to uni-knot on leaders, it might not be quite as strong as blood knot but it holds up pretty well for me, also use it for flourocarbon to braid leaders bass fishing.

Ah, thanks so much. I have looked at tying that before, and think I practiced it in the past. I will take another look at how to tie them. So far my knots have held up on my line...but I haven't gotten a big fish yet to really test them...

On the Saturday morning fishing shows they recently ran knot tests. There was a tie for the best joining knot between the uni-uni and blood knots. They used both mono and braid for the tests, and both knots broke on the line, not the knot.

As my name illustrates, I'm not the best fisherman, but I think you can pretty much do anything in fishing if you know the overhand knot, uni knot (for terminal connections as well as uni-uni), and perfection loop (surgeon loop is a good substitute). The palomar knot is a stronger terminal connector than the uni, but it's a good measure knot, not a required one. Just my opinion, but those 4 knots have served me well.

i'm glad to see the uni-knot performed well 'cause i tie it A LOT

I still haven't looked up that knot...I need to do that tonight. It must of been challenging for me cause I don't remember how it goes. No surprise there.......LOL.