So what is the rule on giving tips to fishing guides?

I'd like to know what others do.

It is just like any other service industry. If you have a good time (tipping doesn't mean catching fish either!), the guide was informative, and enjoyed yourself, then a tip is generally anticipated.

However, if the guide was rude, obnoxious, or you were miserable the entire time, then no.

As mentioned, catching fish is important, but the guide can't make the fish bite. There are days when the best guide in the entire country will get zero'd. Does that mean not tipping him? Absolutely not! They can't dictate the bite.

There are guides that are good with customers, but who simply can't catch fish.

Then there are guides who can catch fish, but aren't good with customers.

So simple rule. Judge it like eating out. How was the service? Was it good? Did you have a good time? If you did, then a 15-20% tip is pretty standard.

If the guide was a grump, didn't go out of his way helping, or didn't care, then no. You'e already paid him for his base fees and services.

Tips have to be earned, not expected!

And, BTW: some of the best guide trips I've ever booked have had bad days on the water. But what I learned, I was able to go back in a few days and wack 'em!

I thought Tipping was a place in China........

Do a search on tipping. There have been some good topics on this in the past.

10 - 15% is what I usually figure.

So...a $300.00 trip + reasonable day on the water + an informative and pleasant guide = $30-50 tip!

I have only been on one charter and we tipped the deckhands. My thoughts are, if you're paying a guide $400 to $500 a day, why tip? I know they have expenses, just as you and I do for our jobs. I know my boss doesn't tip me at the end of the day. If half of the fee is expenses, then the guides are making $200 to $250 a day. How many of ya'll are making $250 a day after your expenses? Gas, lunch, clothing cost, vehicle maintenance....

If the trip is costing $400 to $500 a day, tip is included. If the guide charges less, then a tip may be considered.

Of all the guides that post on here, I have only seen one that comps their clients if they didn't have a great day fishing...Hillcountry.

Bottom line, if you feel like tipping, do it...if not, it shouldn't be expected from the guide.

Just my .02.

SportFisher

SportFisher,

Most deckhands make their living from tips, not the hourly wages.

We book many trips offshore, and I can tell you that many trips are made by the extra effort and attitude of the deck hands.

I don't know of a guide that clears $200-$250 per day after expenses.

I would imagine you make more per hour than a guide does! Most freshwater guides I know struggle to make $30,000 per year after expenses. That really isn't that much. THis is based on charging $300-325 per day.

Most guides book around 150 days. That is pretty good. Very,very few guides can hit the 200 day mark. So at 150 x $325 = $48750 per year BEFORE expenses.

Now deduct $6000-7000 for truck payments, another $6000-7000 for boat payments.

OH, we havent discussed fuel. Try another $75-125 per day for every day on the water.

So when it gets broken down. Most guides average around $10/hr after expenses.

Now, did that guide clean your fish? Did he put you on fish? Provide tackle? Rods & Reels? Did they provide snacks and drinks?

I've never seen a charter trip or guide service that a tip is included. I've hired dozens of guides all across North AMerica. Charter boats and guides several times a year offshore.

I would be careful thinking about rebooking a guide if you didn't tip before. They probably aren't going to go out of their way to help you catch fish if you didn't.

Most guides tell you their rates and what is included. I'm not just kicking back and drinking beer while on the lake. I'm fishing - baiting my own hook, casting, taking off fish. It's not like the guide has to do everything for me.
I know, he put me on the fish but that is what I paid for.

I took a trip last year in Tennessee and did not catch a fish - should I have tipped the guide? Last time I fished offshore I had to pay extra for fish cleaning.

I guess maybe I am feeling guilty for not tipping - it does feel wrong and I may have to rethink this. I have tipped a few times but only when the guide had to deal with a group of us.

I agree Wildone and the guide should have comp'd you a free trip...you didn't get what you paid for.

The deduction for truck payments? I have a truck I drive to work and can't deduct it. Everyone needs transportation no matter what job, most just don't get the tax deduction.

Don't see very many charging less than $400 - $500 a day, so by NTF's calculations, guides should be making about $60k a year working 150 days a year. I don't think guides would guide full time if the money wasn't there. I understand tipping the deckhands if the guide has them as they are probably not getting paid much to begin with and doing most of the work.

I still have to think of a way to get my boss to tip me for coming to work..

I respect guides for the service they perform, but don't expect a tip for doing your job. Hey, I might even guide after my second retirement...if someone wants to pay to go fishing with me that would be great, if not, I'm going anyway.

SportFisher

SportFisher,

Most Freshwater guides get about $325-350 for a full day in North Texas. If you are talking about saltwater guides, then that is different.

I didn't mention deduction for truck payments. What I was refering to was the cost and expenses of having a truck payment figured into their expenses.

Even at $60K, after expenses, that only gives them about $40,000/year. That really isn't that much money.

As far as tipping, Like I said, it is for going above and beyond. If they do well, provide equipement, drinks, snacks, ect.

Working as a guide is completely different than working on a salary. And BTW: when your annual performance review comes up, you are tipped for doing a good job the previous year! It is called a raise. Raises aren't automatic, they must be earned. So keep that in mind. Plus any other bonus's earned along the way.

Oh, I forgot to figure in the cost of tackle and equipment replacement in their expenses earlier. You can figure about $500 per month for a full time guide! So that lowers their net take home pay even further!

You indicate you are from San Antonio, Call this guy and see what he chargers for Choke Canyon. I just googled him. I have no idea who he is. Talk to him about how many days a year he guides, and kind of equipment he has, and I bet you will be really surprised by what you find.

There are lots of guides. Fact, 60-70% of them are part timers. They do it 2-3 days a week because many people can't live and support a family on what a guide earns.

I'm in the business and many of my dearest friends are professional guides. Many of them are full timers. So I'm very in tune with what it costs them, and how much they can charge, what they have to pay in expenses, and what they take home.

Oh, BTW: take into the floods we had last year that closed our lakes up here for 4 months.

Then two years before that, the drought that closed the lakes for another 2-3 months.

Many guides went under because they don't make the money to bankroll those losses.

So if the guide does a good job, produces fish, and you are entertained, throw a few bucks his way. Because it probably barely covers the cost of lures that are lost in the average day of fishing!

If you need a reason to not tip, you have it already.

Well I am real picky about the guides I use. I check references and use various forums to verify results from previous trips.

The only time I use guides is to entertain clients and I want them to have a GREAT day! I want a guide who is informative about why he is doing this ot that and who just about does everything except catch the fish.

I don't want a guide who is fishing! I want that guide helpin my clients to catch fish. I also want a guide who already has fresh bait and doesn't waste our time gettin bait at the beginning of the trip.

I want service and if the fish are biting that is better! For this service I usually tip and extra $100 for four people, $125 for five. Haven't had any complaints yet and when I use those guides again they go out of there way to make the trip a memorable one. Makes it fun for everybody. I know tippin ain't required but it sure does make for a better repeat trip!

When you need one, a guide can be invaluable. If the guide does a good job, I believe in helping him/her stay in business by tipping them. The amount can vary considerably depending on performance, knowledge shared, and results produced...also as mentioned, just like anyone would, they remember when it comes time to rebook and provide another quality experience.

Mike I have to take issue with your statement---after I have, you can let the beatings begin.

As I see it the guide owns his own business , very much like a restaurant owner. I will not tip them as they are making their profit from the food they serve--that being said I will more than whole hardly tip a waitress for her services--she is paid very little and depends on her tips to meet her living standards. Just my 2 cents worth.

I have always tip my guides.

I have used guides a couple times. Once we slammed them heavy and everyone was worn out. The other--not so much only caught a couple. This guide has a rule of no catch- no charge. On the day we caught mederate amount--we pulled anshor and he drove us around the lake and gave us an education on the lake, how to fish them, where to catch bait. That earned him a tip.

I agree with most of your post, except for your statements involving the service industry. A %15 tip for a good meal and a good time is a below average tip for your server. Tipping %20 for your good experience is average, and that is not accounting for other factors, such as occupying a table for over an hour for whatever reasons (waiting for the rest of your party, conversing, etc.). If your server provided exceptional service and you enjoyed your time, %30 is not uncommon.

It is just that everyone seems to believe that a %15 tip for good service is a good tip. Sorry, but if your food arrived on time, your drinks are filled, and you do not have to ask for anything else, %15 is expected. If a server takes time to bullshit with you, to make sure your child is happy, to box up your food and bag it, %15 is below expectations.

Using your same reasoning for calculating guide earnings, a typical server can expect to make $2.13 an hour. If the server averages three tables an hour (which is not a common occurrence), at a $30 ticket average per table, they can expect to make 15.63 at a tipping rate of %15. Minus taxes and expenses, that number comes down to around $9 to $10 an hour, considering the optimum condition of averaging three tables an hour. So, you're telling me it is ok for your server to make $10 an hour, but definitely it is not ok for your guide to average that after expenses?

Sorry to rant, but you have to understand, I love fishing. If I were offered the opportunity to get paid $10 an hour to fish, I would take it in a heartbeat. Instead, I wait tables to make ends meet. I clean up after crying babies, unruly children whose parents can't seem to be bothered to take care of, cut limes for idiots who can't be bothered to use a lemon, and all sorts of unsavory people every single day I work. Getting paid the same amount to spend time on the water doing what I love would be a welcome change.

And remember, just as you caution to be careful about rebooking guides that you do not tip, also be careful of having the same server that you undertipped. The only difference is, there are some people in our industry way more unscrupulous than I, and if you end up sick the next day, it wouldn't bother too many of them.

I'm thankful for someone asking this question, just because it didn't occur to me -- I have not been on a guided trip, but I do contemplate doing so in the future. I generally tip pretty well at restaurants (perhaps because I feel guilty about barely affording a tip at all when I was young) but for some reason it just didn't occur to me to think about tipping a fishing guide, and I'd have been really embarrassed to find out later I didn't tip when it was expected.

I certainly have a high regard for guides on this forum, they give helpful tips, sometimes free seminars like John Varner's graph-reading seminars, and I know they have large expenses for every day they spend on the water.

I'll file away a mental note for the future so I don't forget to tip

Try this. Before you even get into the boat or before you leave the dock hand the guide his stated price for the trip. Without exception every trip I have taken with guides, the guides mouth has dropped open to the waterline. Several have said to the effect, 'Why are you paying me now. We haven't even started fishing or caught anything yet?'

My response is, 'I don't want you to be worried about the money weather the fish or biting or not. That is payment for the trip. What you decide to do at the end of the trip if WE don't catch fish (I expect the guide to have a rod in the water to see if I am unable to catch fish) is your business.'

I have never had a bad trip. I have never not caught what I thought was my fair share of the fish. Never had a grumpy or unhelpful guide. I've ALWAYS had guides that were tripping over themselves, sometimes to much so, to go out of their way to make it the best trip I've ever had. I even had one refuse a $50.00 tip after a 6 hour trip. I tried to stuff it in his hand, and he stuffed it back into mine.

A lot of these guides have had less than ideal experiences with US, their customers. Some had not gotten paid or not received their full payment because the fish weren't on. That's not right. Next time you go out with a guide, pay him upfront before the trip starts. You will be amazed at the quality of the trip.

Reserve the tip for its intended purpose-at the end of the trip. The only problem doing it this way that I see is, you'll never have a reason not to tip the guide at the end of the trip.

DJ,

Apparently what I said was offensive to you, and I never ment to come off that way. Here is exactly what I said, "So simple rule. Judge it like eating out. How was the service? Was it good? Did you have a good time? If you did, then a 15-20% tip is pretty standard."

I waited tables for several years in college, Uncle Julios, Passados, Harrigans, and a couple of other places. 15% has been the standard for "average" service for years. Good service 20%. Excellent Service 25% and higher. When did 15% become below average?

Know what a quarter left on a table stands for?

By the way, a server gernerally doesn't have $25,000-$100,000 invested in their business like a guide does either. So there is a much bigger fincial risk involved. So to make $10-15 bucks an hour after spending the money to buy a boat and truck is peanuts vs. the financial risks involved. Imagine blowing a powerhead on a guidetrip. You think the charter will help in the cost of a $5000 rebuild?

Amen Brother!

I wished one of these days i could afford a guide.

No, not offensive, I just wanted to convey the same tone as you did in your post. If it came across differently, then my apologies indeed.

As for %15 being below averaqe, I believe the situations that I outlined pretty much would require a higher tip percentage. If the optimal condition of a table staying for an hour or less and receiving average service is the case, then yes, %15 is the average expected tip.

And pertaining to initial investment, sorry, but a guide understands the cost of business in entering his or her line of work. If the guide knowingly invests your assumption of $25,000-$100,000 to make $10-$15 bucks an hour, then obviously, it is worth it to him or her, is it not? I may be mistaken, but it would seem to myself that the guide has already taken all of these situations into account, and willingly invests that amount of money to do what they enjoy doing for $10-$15 bucks an hour.

But let me make myself clear. I quite enjoy using guided trips as a way to get to know a new lake, and often do find myself tipping a guide for good service and knowledge. I also pay the guide at the beginning of the trip as well (I figured everyone did, but I seem to be in the minority from the posts on here). I believe that when a guide shares his knowledge of the lake, his areas and techniques, he is sharing part of his livelihood with you. Now surely, there have been a few grumpy guides over the years, but the majority of the guides I have enjoyed most definitely deserved their tips. People should definitely understand that when a guide stays out on the water longer and cleans their take for them that it is not always included. The guide is offering his extra services and being extra helpful to ensure that you have a good experience when doing those things. And the best way to acknowledge your appreciation is to tip them accordingly.

Just like your server.

I've had a few guided trips that weren't what I had hoped for, and I don't mean the fishing itself. I've had my party treated like we were a chore, even though we were knowledgeable, polite fishermen. I didn't tip these guides because they acted like they would rather be in bed than out on the lake, kinda how Monday morning rolls around and that certain coworker acts like he's heading to the gallows instead of heading to work.

On the other hand, I have had guided trips where the guide was happy to be fishing, talkative and responsive to questions. I don't like being bombarded with rules right up front (no gps, none of this, none of that, if you do this I will take you back to the ramp). That stuff sets a bad tone right away. Instead, I like to feel like I am hooking up with an old friend and we are fishing together, not that he is trying to put me on fish. That kind of experience almost forces you to tip.

I been guiding for 12 years now...tips are greatly appreciated but not expected. I give 110% on every trip I go on. ( I think that most of the guides on this forum would also.) If someone does not tip it is not a big deal...I don't blacklist or anything like that.

But, I do think twice about some repeat customers...I had some guys a month ago who were very careless with equipment. They would literally throw down a rod to get another fish. I asked them to take it easy, it didn't help.

If they called for another trip, I would have to think about it...(BTW, they did tip)

Did someone mention making 30-40K a year!!!???? I can hope to reach that someday. It sure would make my wife happier!!!!!

Hm,first I'd have to say that the standard for tipping is very very different when hiring a freshwater guide vs a saltwater charter with deckhands (or when you go on a partyboat offshore). I've had a few open charter trips offshore (mostly southern California), and on those trips you tipped the crew, not the captain ... on private charters off the TX coast, the experiences are the same. Offer the captain a tip, and he says 'give it to my deckhand - he earned it by giving you a good trip'.

Freshwater guides are running solo on their boat, so they're also being the deckhand - they're doing everything if they're good. My perspective is simple; if the guide just gets you out there & fishes with you, then maybe a tip isn't warranted. But - if he's actively working to keep you on fish, especially on slow days or rough weather days, then a tip is likely deserved for the extra service.

Yeah, that's how to think of it - did the guide provide 'above & beyond' service?

As for the professed value of tax writeoffs for truck, boat, etc. You spend $1,000 on equipment for your business and reduce your tax bill by $400 (self-employment tax, franchise tax and income tax) - not a bargain in my book. If a person wasn't guiding, they could probably use the old paid-for boat that only takes two people, and also wouldn't invest in a newer truck. But, the new boat & new truck help ensure minimal breakdowns when you have a trip booked ...

That's a love / hate relationship when I get paid up front for a trip. I usually spend the majority of the morning panicking that I'll have a bad day.

Nothing makes you work harder for your clients than having that cash burning through your pocket.

Also, I think most guides here will tell you that tipping is appreciated, but never expected.

I have gone on a handful of guided trips mostly to Texoma ad once at Port A. All of my guides have been great and I have tipped when appropriate. I do however feel like a deal is made when the guide says this is what it will cost you to fish with me. I don't tip the butcher when the steak turns out great. I kind of feel like the amount the guide gets in the agreed upon fee is all that is owed and all that is to be expected.

I think one of the best things a guide can do to build good customer relations is:

At the end of the trip give the customer your business card and flyer of forums where they regularly post. Ask the customer if they would not mind posting about their experience.

Guides: get the customers email and send a follow up thank you and any photos you took. They will really appreciate that!

As far as payment and tipping:
I agree that the set trip fee should be paid up front. If you had a good experience (whether you caught anything or not), tipping, flowers or a cookie basket is a nice gesture.

There it is in a nut-shell.

fishing for a living. must be nice

It is "NICE", I am fortunate to do what I love! Easy...., not by a longshot....

This has subject has been broached before and raked through the coals. Bottom line. The statement that most "professional guides" will tell you that, tipping is not expected but appreciated when given, is true.

A professional guide knows his/her living is based on the service he/she provides. If the service is below par then the chance of a repeat or referral is going to be Nil. A lot of professional guides have a customer base that always fishes with them and the only way they create that base is through good service.

There are differences between saltwater and freshwater trips but the basics are the same. The guide provides every thing(if needed) you need to go fishing. NTF made a very true statement. Guides take you fishing, not catching. Catching is the gravy. I don't know of any guide out there that thinks to himself I got this clients money now I will take him to the dead sea and make sure he doesn't catch anything.

If tipping is based on whether on not you catch fish or not then you are basing your actions on Mother Nature and your personal abilities. If you want a true ruler to measure your actions on, base it on the performance of the guide.

If you were to book me and we went out and wacked them and didn't offer a tip. Doesn't matter, but the next time you wanted to go out you would probably call back. Let's see, $350 booking fee vs. $20-50 tip. HUMMMM which would you rather have?

Tipping is a personal thing. There shouldn't be a debate about it. If you feel you want to do it, tip. If not don't. It is that simple.