If blues are native to the body of water then I'd probably say man was too stupid to catch them. If they aren't native then it would depend on when they were stocked.

I never have fished for alligator gar, but I've enjoyed watching them roll in the Brazos. Years ago when I was a kid, it seems like they caught larger ones here in and around Waco, but there are still big ones in the Brazos and Trinity. I've got friends that have hooked, landed and released several at or well over 100 pounds. I do think they are holding their own here in Texas.

I don't know what is happening in the other southern states, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, etc., but from what I've read, the more northern states are where the gar are either in trouble, declining or nearly wiped out. I don't know if that has come about because of fishing pressure, their being at the northen most part of their range, or what, but in those states alligator gar are practically a thing of the past in many fishing areas according to reports.

I plan to fish the Brazos using a large flyrod for the larger ones. I think catching one on a flyrod would be a blast! First off the way those rascals fight I imagine if I got one it would be quite a battle. I'll be using TFO rods though, and they've got a lifetime guarantee, so if it breaks, I can get it replaced.

Ray

Ray;

Not sure what the northern limits of the Gar are, but growing up in Iowa I caught one or two really small ones. Never say anything close to the size that they are down here.

When people first told me that they regularly caught them over 50 pounds my first reaction was to call BS, that was until I started fishing the lakes around here by boat.

Was shocked at the size of those things.

Michial,

The largest I've heard of lately was one that went around 190#; a friend caught it.

When I was in my teens, the 50's, there were a few caught on the Brazos near downtown Waco, that were weighed on feed scales at a couple of stores on the square, that went around 300#. They were written up in the paper. I haven't heard of any being caught that large in several decades.

Ray

People have been arguing for years that fisherman can have no effect on fish population. No one will convice them what we do has a tremendous effect on fish population.Just look at the number of people fishing compared to the 1950's. I think we all need to consider how we treat the fishing resource. Their are a number of fish that people were having this same discussion back in the fifties that are gone now.
Johnny

Not too sure I would want to compare the numbers of people fishing from present to the 50's... You might be surprised by the direction the trends go.

Tournaments are on the increase, and $$$ spent on fishing is increasing, but I suspect that the numbers of people fishing are declining.

I cannot speak long term for Texas, but back home the bridges and riverbanks I used to fish in the 70's and 80's always had people fishing. I would guess on any given day there would be 200+ people fishing along a 5-7 mile stretch of the river. My last trip home during the summer I drove through the same areas and there were maybe 50 people along that same stretch of river.

It might have been a fluke for those days, but most of the bait shops and everything in the area have all closed up too.

amazing how everybody does not think exactly like you do

Albert, I learned that a long time ago, and when it happened, it came as quite a surprise. I guess then I thought everyone thought the same. Boy, have I learned a lesson over the years.

I really didn't post that article to start a fight; I thought it was interesting. I had seen another post here somewhere or on another board a few days ago talking about biomass which said an area of water could support only a certain amount of fish, either a lot of little ones or a smaller number of bigger ones. I thought this article kind of fitted in with that. I really never had though much about biomass before, if ever, I guess. It just hadn't crossed my mind.

Anyhow, I've always really wanted to catch larger fish, but when it comes to eating, I like smaller fish.

Ray

i would never even entertain the idea of denying you your right to eat smaller fish ... can you give the same respect & courtesy to me if i would rather eat bigger fish? ... there is a growing number of folks that would dearly love to deny me that right ... your not one of'um are ya?

Not trying to start too much of rift here, for those who really want to research it, please do so on your own. What's considered huge today was considered normal a few decades ago. And the same will happen a few decades from now. Not all fish are capable of growing large, that's why it's important to let the big ones go once in a while (it not all the time).



With all due respect sir, I have no idea what a money fish is. And if you think "throwing back big fish to help keep big fish around" is lies and propaganda, well... there isn't much anyone can do to change your mind. But unfortuantely that's the type of mind we need to change the most.

How about this:

"Hey guys, it's your choice but if you find it in your heart to do so, please consider the concept of catch and release for all catfish over 20lbs. You obviously don't have to, it's your legal and ethical right to keep fish that you catch, but I am just sending a friendly reminder that our resources are limited. Thanks again and have a good day.

Yours Truly
Concerned forum person"

Seriously, if you want to keep your fish, do so. If you want to release every fish you catch and perform CPR on your minnows, that's your choice. I don't understand why people drive this stuff into the ground and break it off. It's as bad as the Ron Paul idiots posting their crass BS.

Now, back to fishing...

Also, I have a question for Harold:

What is your definition of the rancher's "best herd bull"? Would it be the largest one or the most productive one? Could a layperson discern this by gazing across the pasture?

I've said it before, but here goes again: I don't even catch large catfish, much less keep them. In my entire life, I have seen one catfish over 20lbs caught and my son did it. That one was released right after pictures. So, I don't have a dog in this fight, however, I have to wonder about your analogy, because it doesn't seem to fit the scenario as well as it could. I think a better analogy would be an orchard where the most productive trees are cut and the saplings left to make the crop. Would those trees be the largest ones? Probably.

Albert,

I have no problems with your enjoying catching and eating big fish. I haven't said anything about that anywhere in this discussion. That's your choice. I love catching big ones, too! I generally keep the smaller ones though because I think they taste better.

On the other hand, I don't think everyone has to keep every big fish they catch, just like Danny said a couple of days ago. He catches large ones apparently, keeps a few, and releases the rest. That makes total sense to me. There's only so much a person or family can eat.

On the "best herd bull" analogy, that was pulled off the top of my head because in my life a lot has revolved around cattle and animals. It could be these best trees as you said, or any thing that produces. People that raise live production products (cattle, trees, chickens, etc.) normally don't kill or harm their best genetic examples or producers. They save them for the future.

Ray

Anyone who has ever actually met Albert knows he dont eat children or torture pets or most other bad things, pretty nice fellow actually who does some very great things with prison missionary work and foster parenting.

From past experience on other boards he was actually physically threatened by some yankees once over this subject. I knew he would be in on this topic cause his skin is pretty thin maybe as a result of that. sometimes these save the catfish posts have come from those who think the big ones should be reserved so that guides can keep on making a living through trophy catfishing and no one should be allowed to keep them above(pick a weight)to ensure that happens which was the gist of that board topic I mentioned. Now I hope the guides do well for a long time but personally I would never rent a guide who has rules about what size fish I can or cannot keep. My fish I will decide that if I catch it.

I also hope Albert catches all the big ones he wants and Harold keeps all the small ones he wants. For me I wish gas would come down so I could get some interest in going since the nearest lake is 70 miles away and gas is 3.30 plus and I just dont have time for more then a half a day trip right now.

thanks ben ... i'm blushin' ... haven't seen you around for a while ... how ya doin'? ... i have been wanting to do a trip over to stamford lake but can't afford it right now ... i need some fish

Set your watch to alarm on may 12, I will be fishing at Stamford, Ya might warn the fish to hide Albert.

Doing ok Don, went back to work for a consultant with lots of travel so gone a lot. Will be in Snyder this week. I have not fished stamford, this weekend I am helping a friend lay some foundation, following weekend no plans. I may take a look at JB Thomas while I am in snyder, all the reports I have seen it looks like it is really low though. I always thought it would be a great place to jug.

I got to fish with tiny and john back in okie land a while back on an unnamed lake (per tinys request,) think I got ten or twelve or so blues up to ten pounds so have some in the freezer.

Each to his own but I think it is funny what some say about the smaller fish tasting better etc as a reason not to keep bigger ones, a five pound blue or flat is almost all head. you gotta kill a bunch of them to get much meat.

Harold, I moved to Waco in 1993 and went to TSTC. I think it was in 1994 that a guy or maybe even it was his wife that landed a 290 lb gar on rod and reel in the lake that's formed on the Brazos by the city of Waco. I tried to google the report but I could not but the memory of that is strong.
I know of a gas station owner in Bremond that has caught tons of 150+ gar on rod and reel in that area. I believe his name is Butch. I was dove hutning that area about 6 years ago and actually walked across the Brazos. I got half way across the gravel bar and noticed the water being "cut" by what appeared to be a large tree stump. I thought to myself,"Why would a tree stump lodge itself right here???" I took two more steps and the "tree stump moved slowly up river. I never saw the fish but it had to be huge, I mean enormous!
I got my start chasing big flatheads on Lake Palestine years ago. My Grandfathers yougest brother (last surviving member of his siblings) showed me a picture a year before he died of my great grandfather with a fish on cotton scales that he had caught in the area on the Neches river called Big Eddy. The photo just had #67 (which was barely legible) on the back of it. He figured from the black and white photo that the picture was in the early 1940's. It really struck me because I never knew of anyone in my family that had ever caught big catfish.
The Neches was dammed in 1962, 10 years before I was born. Since my early 20's I have known a buch of trotliners who have caught 50+ fish over 40 lbs from this lake. I bought my first boat in 2000 and started targeting big flatheads there. From 2001 to 2004 I caught 19 fish over 40 lbs. I never fished more than 4 weekends each spring. I live 3 hours away and have a kid now. My personal circumstances plus that fact the the true challenge was gone has kept me from going back.
How in the heck can anyone say that all big fish are in dnager of going away?

One other thing is this to whoever it was that said there's more folks fishing for cats with more technology today than ever in history is lacking fishing history. Some of you fellas that tout their age can surely remember the age of the hoop and gill nets???? They are no longer legal. THey were very, very legal and VERY, VERY much in use in the 50's. Hoop nets used by an experienced fisherman are very good at catching fish in rivers. Far more potent than bait and hook. The argument of "what about in lakes" can't count either when you tout the 50's because most Texas lakes were impounded in the 60's.

What kills me is when folks start talking genetics in wild animals and how it will pass down traits for trophy sized specimens. If a big blue or flathead has say (best case scenerio....10,000) fry that make it to legal "eating size or box size" how many of them would eventually be your version of a trophy???
You've gotta think a little deeper. My personal judgement is not quite as good a my makers.

now i know i need to get over there before may 12

yeah ben i have kinda wondered about jb thomas too ... just need to get over there ... congrats on the job ... sounds like the trip to okie land went well

"Now I hope the guides do well for a long time but personally I would never rent a guide who has rules about what size fish I can or cannot keep. My fish I will decide that if I catch it."

I 100% agree with this statement!

Your choice but it will get harder and harder to find a guide as time goes on.

I tried to stay away. LOL
Why is it so hard to understand? Lets look at some facts we can all agree on.

1. Our lakes are getting crowded faster and faster.
2. We know our lakes can support WAY many more HUGE catfish than they currently do. Pictues from the 50's-70's prove that.
3. We know keeping good gene fish breeding works.


These are facts. Are you hurting the fish by keeping a big catfish? Yes, but it's only a .00001% hurt. But once a bunch of people keep on keeping them it slowly does become a problem.

Why do you catch and eaters get so mad when someone brings up these facts? No one is bashing you personally.

All I want is for people to understand that are resources ARE limited. I keep a big one now and then. I do not get self righteous when I throw one back. I just do not have a use for it.

And everything also has to do with which lake your on, how "fertile" the waters are, and how many people fish those waters.

Put them big breeders back for your future. Keep the smaller ones and if your still hungry go get a big mac.