I heard that snapper season has been changed to the end of July. Is this right? What about In state waters, has anything changed?

Federal waters (past 9 nm out) red snapper season starts 6/1/08
and closes on 7/31/08. federal limit is 2 fish
State water (out to 9 nm) is year-round/4 fish
tight lines
-Brian

July 31st? Last I saw it was Aug 5th. Where'd you see the 7/31 date from?

Actually it is August 5th but they are predicting a hurricane to come in on August 1st that will eliminate the last few days....

An important meeting takes place on April 25 that should be of interest to sports fishermen, especially those who like to fish for red snapper.

Congressman Nick Lampson, D-Stafford, is sponsoring a town hall meeting on red snapper regulations with Roy Crabtree, southeast regional director of National Marine Fisheries Service, attending. Although the meeting will have no impact on this year’s regulations, it does provide the opportunity for local anglers to voice their comments about the way our stocks of red snapper have been managed by the NMFS.

The meeting will take place at the University of Houston-Clear Lake Campus at 2700 Bay Area Blvd. in Bayou Theater on the second floor of the Bayou Building. Parking is available in Lot D, located behind the Bayou Building.

They should get an EAR FULL on this upcoming meeting, that's for sure.

I'm starting to pay more attention to posts regarding finding
alternative snapper species. got a lot about beeliners from a
similar thread over on 2cool, but still curious about lanes,etc
not a thread-jack, as I think 8/5 is the end-date this year.
still a rip-off that will prob. get worse before it gets better.
I wish I could make 1 of these meetings, but I'm closer to
Oklahoma than the coast, dangit!
tight lines
-Brian

Maybe if Texans got off their asses and went with the federal limits for a few years it would get better sooner... But the Ego's of Texans will never allow them to think someone knows more than them.

I love the weather and the fishing, but the Egos are pathetic here.

Man thats really unfair to say, I think the sport fishing isnt the real cause of the problem.The bycatch issues and commercial fishermen is what got us in this shape.You put the thousands of dollars worth of electronics on these commercial vessals and theres nowhere for keeper reds to hide.It has to be controled across the board but the problem is out past the 9 mile mark.

Well, Michial...you must be a commercial fishing lobbyist. If you're not, then you might want to address the real issue...commercial fishermen. Recreational anglers cannot deplete the snapper population with only two per day, four per day (in Texas water) or 20 a day like it was years ago. Us Texas boys have gone with the limits for years now. We abide by them. There's more snapper out there now then there was 10 years ago. Maybe not as big on the average, but they are there. Commercial guys don't like to keep those little fish. By a Texas fishing and support the fisheries department.

I agree 100,000%! if you think there are actually LESS snapper
in federal waters off the tx coast, then you have been suckered by the NMFS just as bad as CCA has! either that, or you're not
going out enough, or you're just preaching from the pulpit, again.
Maybe instead of trusting your beloved federal government to make your fishing-related descisions for you, you should get some real-time, real world obsevations before piping off w/
a statement that serves only to piss off those fighting
for the rights of all conservation-minded anglers.
Wanna see a snapper disaster, look at Alabama. go read all the threads @ 2cool! get involved! join RFA! Jim Smarr and the others
might enlighten you a little!
Oh yeah, as far as ego's you might re-read your statement.
pretty egotistical. And pretty weak-minded to think all texans
have that mentality. nobody is asking you to live in Texas, so
go back where you came from if you don't like it!
Sheesh!
-B

WORD!!! Thats what I'm talkin bout!! You said it. As for me I dont think the few fish that I do catch to bring home and eat does any harm to the numbers out there. Even If you add all of us small guys up.

It doesn't, RD, especially when you compare rec ##'s to
Comm. ##'s, and when you consider nmfs cant even enforce the
weak laws for the comm's, or TAC, or quota's,etc,etc......
the NMFS needs more anglers in their cadre, and less
enviro-hugger dollars. I don't even wanna go off here, cause
there's too much info posted on other sites, but maybe we should
bring this to the forefront on this forum.
The more attention, and outcry from sportsmen we have, the
better off we are!
tight lines
-Brian

What are the rules?

Can you stop and catch snapper at the 8 mile mark, then continue out further or do you have to only catch snapper on your way back in?

Or is this one of those "fuzzy" laws that all depends on the warden?

in the strictest sense you would be legal doing what you said, BUT you going to have a hard time proving where you caught those fish, and your likely to get fined and end up paying.

You'd be better off fishing federal waters then coming into state waters and catching your fish and then coming back to shore.

Or an even better thing to do would be to learn to identify vermillion snapper and load up on it and leave the red snapper alone. Vermillion is nearly identical as red, so much so that you cannot tell them apart taste wise and I don't believe that there is a limit on vermillion.

Fair or unfair the facts are we are already in this position no matter who put us there. It is ALL of our responsibility to fix the problem, NOT just those other guys around the coast.

I'm not convinced totally that the commercial guys are the ONLY ones responsible. I've been out on the party boats in the past, and I don't see how you cannot say that they didn't play a role in the destruction of the resources too.

My first offshore trip in 95 was on a partyboat, three of us went out and we caught probably 50 red snappers each, and maybe 40 of them were keepers, the deck hands took every keeper to the back of the boat and when we got off the boat every person on the boat had limits of red snapper.. do that day after day 100+ people each time and I cannot see how that couldn't damage a resource.

Those people on the boat were all rec. fishermen...

Yes rec fishermen do some damage, but the shrimpers/commercial do a lot more, but thats just my opinion. I do not know if snapper travel or stay put.

If they stay put in one area then yes rec fishermen can fish out a reef in no time.


Now that I think about this topic I'm not so sure LOL. Shrimpers dragging bottom can really screw things up, but who knows how that affects snapper.

Are there any reports on this issue we could all read?

If you are in Federal waters, then current Federal rules, regulations and limits apply to your boat. So if it's July & you're allowed 2 fish/person, you'd best not have more than that while you're out there. However, on the way back in, you can stop in state waters & catch your state limit of red snapper.

Likewise, if you're fishing in September this year, you cannot have red snapper in your possession while in Federal waters, so my advice would be do your Federal water fishing first, then stop on the way back in state waters if you want some red snapper.

Oh yeah, also remember that you have to have a TX saltwater license to bring fish ashore, even if they were caught past 9 miles. If you get checked at the docks, there's really no way for the GW to know where each fish was caught - this comes down to being ethical on the part of the fisherman.

Speaking of ethical, how about the ethics of the commercial boats that are being caught poaching HUGE amounts of red snapper (including thousands of pounds in undersize fish). There's another thread on here with details on some of those boats being caught ... there's our Federal regulations hard at work.

The only way that the ridculous recreational limits can do any good is to put the same constraints on both commercial AND shrimper boats. If necessary, a GW should be on a shrimp boat counting the number of baby red snapper being killed - when the shrimp boat hits a certain number, it's done fishing for the entire year. If we only have 2 months to fish, then so should the other sectors.

Oh, Michial, there are limits on vermillion snapper as well. Federal waters is 11" size limit, with possession of 10 fish. Texas limits is 10" size, with no possession limit (not sure that you can find very many vermillion in state waters anyways).

Of course charter catch contributes to the harvest.My point was that I feel your commemt about our egos is why were still dealing with this problem. I asure you the charter captains are stuggleing for there catchs rt now.But commercial fishermen will out spend the recs to insure there wt totals stay up.And the majority of that issue is out past the nine mile mark.Ask any charter cap how long a hot spot holds before commercial fishermen get on it, they will tell you compared to yrs past they hone in on it real quick today.

I have read many an article of tickets that have been given to commercial fisherman that have harvested way too many snapper and after they take the snapper and give them multiple tickets and they are back out the next day doing the same thing. I read that one captain had more than 50 tickets and is still fishing. I think if they stop commercial fishing for a year or two the size would be back to normal and would solve the problems or just take the boat and equipment from the thieves. And I really want to use a worse word....

Steve

We are ALL responsible at our own levels, and it is ALL of our responsibilities to repair the damage. By Texans refusing to fall in line with the federal limits we are doing nothing more than thumbing our nose at the feds and at the problems.

Blaiming the commercial guys are is just passing the buck. I'm tired of hearing people cry "it's no my fault it's someone elses."

Maybe we should put a ban on catching and keeping red snappers completely for a few years and let the problem get fixed that way... But then if that was the solution the feds chose it would still be pointless because we would not comply and still slow the process.

My point is the damage is done, no matter who is responsible for the damage it is still ALL of our responsibilities to fix the problem, and every time someone passes the buck and thumbs their noses at those trying to solve the problem the just force things to take longer to fix..

So When Texans let their egos tell them they can do anything they feel like doing just because their texans all they do is make things take longer to fix.

Guys, if you go to the catfish section you and pull up some of these guys you will see that they have the same arguement. FOr some reason they seem to feel the "dooms day" plague for all species. Their comments seem to be in line and they are willing to argue it to the death.

Number one Michial, Please stop referring to our egos as the reason we are not falling in line with fed regulations. Florida is not bending to pressure from the feds either. And maybe, just maybe, our biologists have a little better science than the NMFS does to back up they're reasoning. Like maybe we dont agree with them about bycatch issues, Number two, would you really want to agree and just go along with an agency that decided your limit on Amberjack is 1 and 1/2 fish per person? How do you catch a half of a fish? It just doesnt make much sense.
Number Three ,understand this, Texas is the only State to enter the Union by TREATY rather than by secession, We were a nation unto ourselves and we were under the Flags of four others before we entered the Union, so I suppose we do have bigger egos than other states, as we should. There is a reason Our flag is the only flag allowed to be raised to the same height as the Stars and Stripes.....deal with it and quit yer bitchin....

You post PROVES the ego aspect of my arguement..

PROVE that tp&w has "better science" and I'll believe you...

OH by the way isn't it "SIX" flags that have flown over Texas, NOT 4, and what does ANY of that have to do with anything???? Proves nothing more than noone really wanted Texas, and the only way Texas could get protection from Mexico was through entering into a treaty with the US... If Texas was so great it would never have needed that protection that being a member of the US offered...

If you want to argue for the Egos of Texans perhaps you shouldn't demonstrate the ignorance that seems to go hand in hand with those same egos.

Oh and having the RIGHT to fly the flag at the same level is a RESPECT offered to the State of Texas. It's not a RIGHT at all, its a demonstration of RESPECT. Try offering the RESPECT that the other 49 states Deserve as well.

Man Michial, sounds to me like your looking for friends. And you just thought you'd sturr up a hornets nest with catfishermen. Not to be offensive but I really do think you enjoy it. If so then sit back and have fun!!

Man, I started this topic just to find out if the rules had changed for us here locally, thats all. Didnt mean to start any arguments. But, Iv'e got a pair of boxing gloves if anyone would like to borrow them!! As for my stand on the subject, I like being able to keep a few snapper year round in state waters. Certain times of the year thats about all there is within 9 miles out, so they make it worth the trip. I'm glad to be from and live here in TEXAS.

Reel, just remember it's 9 NAUTICAL miles, not statute miles - and under no circumstances do you ever want to venture into Federal waters with State limits of red snapper in your vessel (just in case law enforcement decides to check out there).

Michial, example of flawed science. NMFS uses the growth and MSY (maximum sustainable yield) calcuation methods for salmon to estimate figures for red snapper! Two completely different animals with different reproduction, habitat, growth, etc, and NMFS treats them essentially as the same fish. How can you begin to think that NMFS has any good science behind it?

I'll trust Texas over NMFS on this, thanks - ego or no ego.

For anyone interested, 'Maximum Sustainable Yield' means 'how many fish can we catch without completely killing them off?'. It's based on the assumption that fish only have to live long enough to spawn once or twice & places more economic value on 100 two pound red snapper than on 20 ten pounders or 10 twenty pounders.

It would seem that Texas's methods for management would create a much more fragile environment then. If you only manage for one or two spawning and assume that they will be taken after that it would seem that one bad year or one bad environmental change that had a large kill off could destroy the populations quickly.

If you manage for larger fish you are naturally also managing for larger numbers of breeders to exist at any given time, making the species more resilient after a large number of deaths...

How does that make Texas's method better? Seems to me that the way Texas does it does nothing more than satisfy the sport fishermen of today without regard to consequences of unforeseen futures...

Wow Michael, I sure would hate to be on a 48 hour offshore trip with you! I'm sticking with my thoughts and beliefs that commercials are the red snapper culprit...I know that for a fact. Earlier in one of your posts, you said you went offshore fishing on a party boat and watched deckhands take fish to the back to fill up everyone's limit. That's their job. Once limits are posted...they quit. Evidently you haven't been on too many offshore trips. I've probably been on 50 party boat trips. I've yet to see one charter I've been on break the law in any form or fashion. Commercials do it every single time they are out there. I've seen it countless number of times.

P.S. Be sure and tell me when you going and on what boat...then I'll make plans to head in a different direction.

Umm,Cant you add? Four other nations plus our own flag plus the Stars and Stripes, adds up to Six I think unless you want to argue that as well.
I never said that TPWD has better science, just that they might...and What about Florida? Got an opinion about that state and it's citizens as well?
No comment of the NMFS and their limits in regards to Amberjack? NO? are you sure?, just more personal assumptions which only serve you.

We are here on this forum to help each other out in regards to fishing and yes to hear each others opinions on certain rules and regs. However, I do take it personal when someone makes it personal instead of politely stating their opinion.

So in the future, please refrain from making such personal statements which serve no purpose other than to be rude. As you said it is a demonstration of RESPECT, The U.S. offered RESPECT to our great State when we signed that Treaty. Try offering RESPECT to the other members of this forum.

I thought in Texas they had to be at least 17 years old unless you live on a compound in far West Texas. I could be wrong about this however.

Guys if your going to argue with MT then you'd better take your blood pressure medicine because he knows it all. Don't ya'll know that folks from up north are smarter than we are????
I think someone hit the nail on the head....if you don't like our state then leave. I think Brian burns made a song about it.
Here it is :
Welcome to Texas, glad that you came down,
you’ve got lots of friends here, take a look around.
They come from California, they come from Ohio,
they come from Minnesota to get out of the snow.

You don’t like our drivin’, you don’t like our roads,
you make fun of the way we talk, make fun of our clothes,
but you clog up our highways, been pourin’ in for years;
if you don’t like the way we do it, what are you doin’ here?

CHORUS:
Welcome to Texas, don’t anybody get me wrong;
we’re glad y’all came to see us, just don’t forget to go back home.

We don’t need your politics, we don’t need your prayers,
we don’t need your moral compass leadin’ us anywhere.
We don’t need your business, we don’t need your art,
we don’t really give a damn how you did things up north.

REPEAT CHORUS

You gripe about our music, gripe about our food,
gripe about the weather here, say it’s way too hot for you.
We hear all your whinin’, and it starts wearin’ thin
when we see our milk and honey runnin’ down your chin.

So come on down to Texas, have yourself a ball,
take the kids to Six Flags, and the wife out to the mall.
Have a good vacation, but then don’t hesitate
to point your car back up the road to that outbound interstate.

REPEAT CHORUS

NEXT SONG

I share his point of view.

Scooter,Scooter, Scooter....Shame on youfor lumping all northerners together. I'm from waaaay up north (montana) and I LOVE TEXAS. I spend my winters there.I'm sure not any smarter than most Texans, especially on this issue. I do believe that Texas has some strong anectdotal evidence that it's marine scientists know what they're doing. In the late 70's catching a 20"redfish was a big deal, now it's just an average fish. What makes the Federal Govt think they can manage the fisheries better than the states? Could it be their success with education? FAA? Agriculture?...and on and on and on.

All I know is that I miss eating FRESH snapper. See ya'll in December.

MTS, I didn't mean it like that but I do have to agree with Brian Burns song in one way. If all someone has to say is how he don't like how we do things here then he ought to pack up and leave. I am sure that in some of the North Eastern states where trotlining is illegal that they'd show you the door if you used one no matter how hard you argued that it was a good idea in Texas. THey don't care and we don't either.
I will say this however, I have worked in over 25 states and when you say you're from Texas then they automatically get a little stand off-ish. I don't know why. I have not been to Montana and I really doubt it if folks from up that way would ever be that way at all.
Hurry up and get down here...just be nice (which I am sure you are)!

Hey Michael, Yankee-country just called........
they want the other half of their brain back!
HA!
See, I can be just as immature as you. look at me, aint I cool?

Scooter G..

Back in the USSR would be a better song for Mikial .. eh Komrad??

Scooter, I don't think there's all that many people in Montana anyways, so it's most likely easier for them to be friendly.

We only have a million people in our entire state! Almost all are very friendly. We still wave at each other as we pass on the road. People will stop and help if you break down. When a man gives his word he's expected to stand by it. Deals are still sealed with a handshake.We are self reliant and work for our living. Govt handouts are shameful to most of us. Hmmm sounds like a lot of Texans I know.

thanks to Mr Mojo Risin' for sayin'it straight!
-B

MTS, That's just the way I figured it. Texas "used to be" that way and it still is in alot of places...especially out west.
I was in Kerrville about 5 years ago and ate at Chili's on the River (Gruadalupe). It was in early March. Brian lives in Kerrville and he showed up and played/picked for a couple of hours. He sang that song from a request but didn't realize that another table had about 15 snowbirds that had been staying in Fredericksburg. They all got pissed and left the restruant.Gotta love it.
The only reason I brought it up in the first place is because Michial Thompson (who hails from Iowa I think) really wants all of us to believe that all (not just Snapper) fish are in danger of recreational fishermen. We have all had it out on the catfish section.
Got Ya Bazz!!!YESSIR!

MTS..
We had a couple of Montana Gents on our last TFF Tuna Trip with Deep Sea Headquarters out of Port "A".. I loaned them some Tuna Tackle and they had a blast.

Fine Folks as far as We're concerned

Bazz

Heck, I guess I'm out on this discussion...it went from snapper regs. to Montana and now the Tuna Twist Charter...dang I need to make one before diesel hits $20/gallon!!

I can't phathom WHY the feds/NMFS has allowed the Commercial Snapper folks to take red snapper from 13" up and we still get the short end of the stick with 16" red snapper and only 2 fish.

The sheer numbers of undersized red snapper being tossed back because of not being of legal minimal length for recreational anglers is astounding and they are eaten by sharks, porpoises and king mackerel. Now, tell me WHY the first 4, when it was 4 and now 2 red snapper caught is your limit instead of still trying to catch the lacking legal length fish. Sure, you could not have any culling regardless of how soon the fish was aboard and once everyone has their daily limit, go focus on other species. There would be no waste and the party boat customers and crew would both be happy to take fish back.

I have seen way too much and listened to both sides or several sides, commercial boys, NMFS, TAMU Federal Marine Biologist (didn't have a clue on the mortality of commercially caught snapper), party boat captains (were shocked) on the stats the commercial boys revealed and wouldn't you know, the NMFS representative didn't comment except for, "That will happen"...hmmm, and WHO is our Big Brother?

Michael,
do you not read correctly
"Michial, example of flawed science. NMFS uses the growth and MSY (maximum sustainable yield) calcuation methods for salmon to estimate figures for red snapper! Two completely different animals with different reproduction, habitat, growth, etc, and NMFS treats them essentially as the same fish. How can you begin to think that NMFS has any good science behind it?"
For anyone interested, 'Maximum Sustainable Yield' means 'how many fish can we catch without completely killing them off?'. It's based on the assumption that fish only have to live long enough to spawn once or twice

and your response was....................
"It would seem that Texas's methods for management would create a much more fragile environment then. If you only manage for one or two spawning and assume that they will be taken after that it would seem that one bad year or one bad environmental change that had a large kill off could destroy the populations quickly."

Now WHO manages for one or two spawning seasons????????
Please, if you are going to bash the TP&W with no factual evidence, and someone gives you some.......at least attempt to read it correctly and decipher it correctly to prove your point instead of proving ours for us. We do a pretty good job of it already.

The commercial fishermen can destroy a species far quicker than individuals. I do not believe any commercially harvested species of fish has become endangered due to sportsfishermen, but by commercial fishermen.

Harvey, yes you got the essence of my post - the NMFS is only concerned about keeping enough breeders around to produce keepers for next year and the year after that. Honestly not sure what - if any - plan Texas has, but from dealing with some of the TPWD biologists, I know they prefer to see lots of older fish around to crank out more eggs (the same applies for most longer lived species).

This problen should have such a simple solution. It really should. It's called 'enforcement of our existing laws'. Nab poachers and make the punishment so severe that they can't afford to go out again.

Absolutely!!! I'll second that one!!

Many of the commercial guys don't keep anything under about 16" because they can't get anything for the smaller fish at market.....sounds good on paper to reduce bycatch but in reality it doesn't help because the market won't support it. Not much meat on a 13" snapper.

How many commercial snapper boats have you seen when they off-load their catch? I've seen more than my share from the early 80's; and now they are hammering the 13" and up red snapper, especially this year since the feds allowed them to take smaller fish for minimum length. They'll take whatever the minimum size is legal to sell.

Blameing the commercial guys is just passing the buck. I'm tired of hearing people cry "it's no my fault it's someone elses."

the above was a reply from someone else on this topic and this is what i have said from the start. we all need to work together! until then, its going to be the same old BS! should it matter to me? not really, because i have the best of both worlds when it comes to snapper fishing. does that make me a bad boy? should i go to timeout/the corner because i comm fish sometimes? i have and will always say the samething on this topic. until we all unite, it will be the same old [censored]! someone has to put the snapper on the table to feed the guess that keep the restarunts open. remember the next time you want a snapper dinner when you take your family out to dinner that have came in from the other side of the world to visit and they have heard that a snapper dinner is the best thing they could eat. make damn sure that you don't order it! thats a start, ain't it? better yet, why not just cut of