I started fishing Port Mansfield when I was 10. Thats 52 years ago. Back when the old RedFish Motel occupied the Point off the Ship channel. Seen many boatloads of trout and reds caught there. My Dad and I used to go north and camp on the King Ranch Shoreline. Fish all night with cut bait on the bottom. Many nights we would catch 500 lbs. of Trout and Redfish.
I read somewhere that there were 650 guides fishing Baffin and Pt. Mansfield. 5 years ago, you could wade fish the Tide Gauge Bar at Baffin and catch 10 keeper Trout in an hour or two. Same with Corrales, or Peniscal. Today, you have to catch 100 14 inch trout for every 10 keepers. Nothing has devastated our Trout fishery more than the Guides that are selling our Fish to the highest bidder. If 650 guides make 4 trips a week with 2 guests and catch 2 limits of trout per trip = 52,000 keeper trout caught per week. No fishery can survive with that kind of destruction. Especially when the guides at Pt. Mansfield were using Croker and taking ALL the big fish. Now...we are limited to 5 trout per day in Pt. Mansfield. I'm glad my DAD isn't alive to see this devastation. I know some here will piss and moan that we need the guides, but the facts speak for themselves. The guides need to be eliminated from the Trout fishery. Immediately! Or...we won't have any trout left for our kids.

Man can I have some of whatever you are smoking? It sounds like its some really good stuff.

Trolling with stinkbait.

Padre,

I think I know somewhat how you feel about seeing a fishery decline precipitiously having gone through the big freezes of the 80's around Galveston. It is hard to take, but the guides aren't the entire blame. They are just trying to make a living providing a service that people want.

Now guides that use their limit to apply to customers, I have a big problem with as well as guides that don't respect the resource by failing to practice proper catch and release...they are foolish and killing the very resource that supports them, a behavior which is less than intelligent.

The fishery down the Laguna is very limited in terms of the fishing pressure it can withstand. Some folks will argue, but the facts are that the Laguna is simply not capable of supporting the same kind of fishing pressure we see around Galveston. The biology doesn't lie.

Outlawing guides isn't the answer, IMO. Strict limits that are enforced is the only hope of restoring the fishery. Outlawing the use of croakers as bait would also be a step that would help the situation. Croaker fishing extracts a terrible toll on the fishery and tends to negate the effects of catch and release fishing.

But we that fish shouldn't always blame everyone else for the problems. We should exercise restraint, each one of us. We should carefully release fish and we should help with enforcement of regulations by turning in offenders....just like hunters in our State have substantially reduced poaching by turning in offenders, we should actively do the same. The fishery is too important to allow a few bad apples to ruin it for the many.

In this day and age, 5 trout are plenty to keep. Trout don't age well in the freezer and most people simply don't need to retain even 5 trout. I wouldn't mind seeing the limit go even lower until attitudes change and the fishery recovers.

Freshwater trout fishing shows the benefits of low limits and especially of fishing people who care enough about their resource to actively oppose those who do not....turn them in!!! Why is it that saltwater trout are any less valued than freshwater trout, or LMB, or any other freshwater sport fish? Why are our trout often thrown in garbage cans to rot? Why do we tolerate those who would destroy what we enjoy so much?

There are folks on here who brag about catching and keeping over 100 trout a day. I submit to you that we can no longer tolerate those individuals in our fisheries and should make every effort to have them removed. Great fishermen don't deplete the resource and then brag about it, they protect it and then honor it.

This thread will probably bring out some of those folks...folks who would catch and kill every trout if they could...and then brag about it, take pictures of them on the cleaning table as if that somehow makes them a better fishing person. Those days are gone. The great fishing people now are the ones that preserve the resource. Until us saltwater folks finally get the same attitudes that most of our freshwater brethern have had for years regarding catch and release and resource protection, we will all suffer....and that in my opinion is the biggest problem, not the guides

P.s.

The late great Lee Wolfe said something like "sport fish are too valuable to be caught just once". If we saltwater trout fishers adopted that attitude toward specs, the problems you speak of would no longer be problems.

Either you Guide lovers can't add or you are in denial. 650 guides taking hundreds of thousands of trout a month out of our fishery is CRIMINAL. These fish are NOT FOR SALE! Yet the guides are selling them. Take Trout off the guiding list. Better yet...let the guides get a real job!

Any of ya'll ever read Plugger by Rudy Griger? Pretty good book by a former guide and highly respected angler who helped form the GCCA later to become CCA.

Lots of factors account for the falling fish numbers. Including the freezes, commercial fishing, closing of the land-cut, and polution. Go to Amazon.com and buy that book for a good insight.

Aren't you being a little hypocritical...matter of fact, you are. Guiding is a job, they have to abide by restrictions, rules and regulations just like anyone else. Non-guided anglers also take trout and other species from our coastal waters and you're putting all the blame on guides. No, I'm not a guide, but if I wanted to hire one, that is my decision and option, no one elses. They do have a real job, they guide those that may not know the bay, gulf, lakes, rivers, have a boat or know-how and would like to learn from their experience. It takes a tremendous amount of money to do what they do, and should not be blamed for any one thing unless they are not following the rules or our regulations.

Maybe you need to learn how to catch bigger trout...seems like you might need to take a few lessons from a guide.

Better yet, I had the honor of fishing with him...a true old salt in every sense of the word.

i really like the limits in saltwater that say anything you catch, you keep. 8 trout limit. no release. at least when croaker fishing. I think half the fish you catch, you kill.

Soggy - where are you reading those regulations, not here in Texas.

There may be another possibility...some of us may recognize that we the fishing people are part of the problem.

You like math, do this math, add up the numbers of LMB caught in a typical tournament, then multiply that by the number of tournaments going on every weekend on every lake in Texas, then add the numbers of LMB caught with guides every day on every lake...why isn't there a huge problem with LMB? The answer is simple, catch and release, and a realization that even though LMB are renewable that are NOT indestructable....all about attitudes.

Consider if you can other places as examples...take Boca Grande for example. You probably can't count the number of guides fishing for Tarpon there. Yet, it remains one of the World's permier Tarpon fishing locations. The guides religiously protect the Tarpon. If you are inexperienced fighting a big fish, you better not fish with a Boca Grande guide.

Same is true in Key West. You better not fish in Key West with a top guide and kill a Tarpon, or a Permit, or a Bonefish....believe me it will be the last time you do that.

Same is true even in Mexico where the standards of living are generally lower...by and large sport fish like Tarpon are recognized for their economic value and protected by guides with everything they have.

Same in the Bahamas where bonefish are treated like a member of the family by the guides.

Same in Belieze and so on.

Try catching and keeping San Juan river freshwater trout....it won't be game wardens that stop you. In fact you will be lucky if it is a game warden. Other trout fishermen do not take kindly to seeing the resource killed....guides will resort to violence to protect the fish.

We need to change our attitudes. Specs need to be respected as a renewable resource but also one that can be destroyed. They are too valuable to rot in a trash can, be thrown out of a freezer because they are unedible, or slaughtered and laid out on a cleaning table for "pictures".


Ban the guides you say, that's foolishness and just p*ssing in the wind. Change attitudes and the problem will take care of itself.

I fish in a lot of locations in this country and in other countrys...and I can tell you for certain and with great sadness that the Texas coast attitude toward our great workhorse sport fish, the speckeled trout, is the worst of anywhere I have fished. That's the problem.

Meadowlark - you hit the nail on the head there friend! Great respone!

breambuster nailed padre too! But I find it hard to believe he would catch 500 lbs -in a night?- and then if he didn't c&r, what did he do with a 1/4 ton of fish?

But if he, as he writes, is catching 100 14" trout to get to his 10 keepers, it doesn't sound like there is a trout population problem where he's fishing! LOL

Meadowlark -those are two very good posts, but I think they will fall on blind eyes as padre is just trolling to stir it up.

He writes as though he just broke off a relationship with a guide or feels he was wronged on something.

Padre is absolutly correct, however, the guide lovers around here will argue to they are blue in the face. Just add up the numbers of guides on the water and times that buy 4-6 people and times that by 10, and like padre showed you get a whole lot of dead trout. Plus, its an every day thing.

There are way too many guides in the business and they cater to people who like to keep every fish they catch, and usually wouldnt catch so many if they were alone.

You can not tell me that the fishery is not effected. Every summer I see the toll first hand. My aunt lives on Alazan bay and the water out front her house is the secrete trout spot of all time. Untill about mid summer, the trout fishing there is increadible, with huge numbers of 20 inch plus fish. However, as summer wears on, and guide season is in full swing, the large trout begin to disappear. Due to the high gass rates, guides love to catch limmits as close to the boat ramp as possible, to save money. Our little secrete has been found out by several local guides and after about 2 weeks of them lineing the shoreline, you can not buy a keeper trout. Man it really ticks us off.

Though we do not own the water, it is our own little personal beach and what we feel like a private wading hole that we have fished religiously for 20 yrs. However, the guides will motor right up on us and even sometimes cut us off from the fish. Needless to say, it starts some pretty big fights.


Regardless, the over guiding in fishing does play a toll on the fishery. Just do the math!! My suggestion is a 5 fish limmit like in bass fishing. Also, I think that there should be a stronger push for catch and release like in bass fishing.

There is a 5 daily bag limit on trout down south and you can do 'Catch & Release' if you please. It's the anglers choice whether they want to do so or not...if it is legal, then they have the right to take their fish home as long as they are within the legal size and bag limits.

I've fished from the 8th pass at Washington Beach ( Mexico) to San Luis Pass my whole life. Pt. Mansfield has been devastated by guides fishing with Croker. I know the Croker boat owner who sells croker to the guides in Pt. Mansfield. And he told me how many hundreds of dozens of Croker he sells a day to the Guides. If you haven't caught trout on croker..get out of the debate because you can't understand how unfair croker are at taking big trout. They'll hit a live croker with 10 other baits in the water, including live shrimp. The guides have moved down from Baffin because they don't want to cach 100 14 inch trout for every limit ( 10 ) keepers they catch. Trout and Redfish were taken off the grocery store counters in 1986. They should have taken the guides off the list then. Sabine lake has gone to 15 fish limit this year..down from 25. This is because guides are devastating this great ( Big Trout ) fishery with croker..You can call me a guide hater, but the numbers don't lie. STOP the guides from Taking Trout FOR MONEY!

By the way, I was told that the 5 fish limit is no longer in effect. Reason Being, it was just too hard to enforce. It is too hard for anglers to determine the cut off or they would catch several in the area with a 10 ifsh lmmit, for example, a guy accidentally finds his way into the 5 fish zone and gets pulled over with 6,7,8,9 or 10 fish. There is then a big, and a little unfair issue as a guy that thought he was legal finds himself in position to be ticketed. For these reasons, I was told that they just put the 5 fish thing on hold. However, this is just what I was told and do not know if its 100% true.

My idea for trout limmits is to lower the number to 7, and lower the size limmit to 14 inches with a one fish over 27 inch rule.

7 is the happy medium between 10 & 5 and will help stop guides from double booking like they would if the number was only 5. Now, I suggest 14 inches because there are way too many trout in the 14 inch range and people would have an easier time of filling up that stringer and not have the need to keep larger fish just so that they can have a limmit. Hopefully, they get there limmit so quick that there wont be room for too many big sows. Plus, trout fillet way better than most fish like Drum or Reds. A 14 inch fish will still put off as much meat as a 16 or 17 inch red or drum. Upping the 1 fish only size limit to 27 inches is a consession to those who do not like the lowered limmit of fish. If you think about it, not many times do you catch multiple fish over 25 inches on a tirp. It does happen but just not regularly, plus they will have a stringer of 14 incher, making this just look good on paper for those who like to keep the bigones.

The number of guides and their take is taken into consideration when figuring the limits.....don't blame the guides, take your gripe to TPW and lobby for different limits if you feel so strongly.

The whole croaker argument is BS, it's the same argument that LMB fisherman used for years to try to ban live bait fishing for bass.....mortality is equally as high, if not higher, on lures....exponentially so if circle hooks are used.

Limits are limits, it doesn't matter whether you catch them with plastic, croakers, or dynamite....they filet up and taste the same, the same number of fish get harvested either way.

I suppose the HUGE increase in recreational traffic to the Lower Laguna Madre over the last 15 years had absolutely nothing to do with the decline in fish populations....I guess all those rec anglers release all their fish so they couldn't have contributed.

Careful what you ask to ban....I think outboard engines help anglers more than croakers....maybe we should ban those...think of how few fish everyone would catch with out an engine on their boat.

The tools available and the number of anglers all factors in mathematically to come up with a sustainable limit.

Most recreational angler are not fishing everyday with 6 other people all looking to limmit out, and usually doing so. Rec. anglers do not fish near as much, for the most part, and do not need to be put in the same category as guides. Recreational anglers enjoy the water for fun, and dont have the same intense need to catch and keep a limmit of trout.

Just like my example, we fish our little spot in Alazon for weeks, catching limmits of huge fish, but as the pack of guides begin to show with their croaker, the fishing always begins to decline with basic keepers turning up in short nubers.

Being a freshwater guide for stripers around Dallas I agree with the way the guides abuse the fish.I think that if you fish with a guide your limit should be cut in half.Because you have an everyday advantage over the guys that have to pay boat registration ,ins,gas,and all other things that keep you on the water.It takes away from the regular guys that pay to enjoy fishing.And definetly should not count guide limits to the total of fish kept.

Sassy, you are truely a standup guy for admitting the truth even though you are a guide. Like I said before, there are several really good guides that I personally like. However, the business is just way too crowded and depended on by too many around here to catch them their fish. For that reason, it is hard to have a genuine discussion about guides, and their effect on different aspects of fishing. Thanks for your honest info. on the issue.

I have a guide friend who limmits his guests to 3, throws artificial only for trout and red, tries to put people on drum if they want take home fish, and activly fights to keep boats out of the prime seagrass areas against the wishes of the guide community. He has been doing things a long time, but now has a great client base. This is how I wish all guides would act. However, most just try to book as many people at once as they can and get 10 trout and 3 reds for all of them to bring home. That is way to much fish and not necessary.

Again, thanks for your first hand input, and though I dont want you to hurt your business, drop in from time to time with your views. They are much needed around here.

Padre after reading some of your post you sure are a hater.Croker?your thoughts are off the wall.you cant go around blaming guides and other cause perhaps you dont have the same luck catching fish.almost seems like your not happy fishing?
I bet if your stringer was full you would not gripe.T.P.W
Thats who needs to address this problem[If theres one crokers]
anyway mellow out and have fun fishing.Good luck on your next trip.

rsgonza...I've had a long history of debate over Guides devasting the Trout Fishery. Freshwater guides are great. They do a good service. They protect the Bass Fishery and actually bring awareness to the propogation of the fishery. Trout Guides are just the opposite. You know it...everyone knows it. 100 guides taking 4 trips a week with 2 fishermen result in killing 16,000 trout a week. You think ANY fishery can stand that? Are you STUPID? And I wish it were only 100 guides. It is closer to 600! And that number is horrid!
I'm a working man myself. Everyone has his shot at the big pie. But Trout Guides are SELLING our natural resource ( Trout) and like Snapper, it can't be replaced. I started fishing Pt. Mansfield when I was 6...in 1951. I've seen the limit on trout go from no limit to 5 fish. Pt. Masnsfield is a :Fishing village". A bunch of farmers from Raymondville developed it. Baffin Bay guides started fishing Pt. Mansfield in 2002...when they finished depleting Baffin of Keeper Trout. The Trout Guides are doing the same in Sabine Lake...Limits are now down to 15 fish on the La. Side...10 in Texas water. But it is only a matter of time until all of the Laguna and Sabine are on a 5 trout limit.
15 years ago the GCCA , with its rich lobbists ( Perry Bass) got the F&G to limit Reds to 3 fish. Thanks to some TURD named Paul Prudhome who taught America how to "Blacken" redfish. The Water is literally FULL of Redfish! Do you think that 3 fish limit will ever be erased? Give me a break! Put the guides on a 5 fish limit per customer NOW. That will at least slow down the Trout Slaughter. And Put Pt. Mansfield and Port Isabel on the NO GUIDE LIST! These guides don't give a **** about the Trout Fishery for my kids or your grandkids. They just want to make $ 500 a day off some Smuck from Dallas who can't spell Trout.

Keep your posts pointed towards the Subject matter. Not the Poster. Personal attacks on the Poster are tiresome and juvenile. Agree to disagree, but be civil.

Puff, puff, give man!!! you're messing up the rotation.

Being a "Smuck" from north of Dallas who can spell trout, I take issue with you lummping all guides in the same bait bucket.

IMO, there are two kinds of guides on the coast. The Professional guide who works year round, self imposes limits on his guest, uses artificials and in general protects the resource. (Someone like Billy Sandifer comes to mind but there are plenty of others.)
Then there are the "Croaker Guides" who only go out when croaker are readily available and don't give a rat's backside about anything or anyone other then filling the cooler and offsetting his boat payment.
The Pro guides down there do a great deal to protect those fish to the benefit of everyone including the local economy. Their livelyhood depends on a healthy fishery and they know it. The Croaker guide is in it for a fast buck and when the fish are gone he will move on to screw something else up.

I do not own a motorboat and I'm lucky if I can get to the coast 2 or 3 times a year. If I wan't to fish water like Baffin Bay, I will need to hire a guide plain and simple.

Padre,
Should I be denied the chance to fish there because you are no longer able to catch 500 pounds of fish in a night?

Padre - the guides are not wasting the fish...their customers are taking them home to eat. Why discredit an individual that may not have a boat, know the waters, know what to use or the species they are seeking? Do you do the same for the outfitters who guide quail, duck, dove, goose, deer, javelina, feral hog, pheasant and all the remaining species hunts? Should they be banned also? You are really pushing the limit on calling others names or classifying those that hire guides being smucks. It seems to me your doing some big-time trolling.

Great reply Spiny!!

I agree with the guys mentioning Griger's book "Plugger."

There are alot of factors as to why fishing in many areas has changed.

I've only used a Guide twice. Learned some great technique but have not caught alot of fish using them. I do better on my own.

Absolutely oblivious to the ProbleM! Here's the numbers...600 guides fishing 4 days a week, with 2 fishermen catching a limit of 15" trout each = 96,000 trout per week. Multiply that X 52 Weeks in the year = 4,992,000 Trout! Keep that figure in your "Open Minds"....5 Million Trout a year!..Now I know Every guide don't work 4 days a week...some work 7 days a week...and they don't ALWAYS catch their limit of trout.
But if only half of this number is a fact, then our trout Fishery is over. Can you guys add? Are you Blind to these facts? Do you not know how many Croaker guides are fishing the Laguna? A guy who don't own a boat and fishes twice a year in the Laguna HARDLY has a sage OPINION. Give me a break! I'm trying to save the Trout fishery for our children. You guys are lobbying for the Guides? I'm laughing at the Hypocricy!

Why don't you produce the facts for us instead of using simple math. Go interview the guides when they arrive at the marinas or better yet, why not get the data from TPWD down there in the Laguna area since they interview all anglers coming in at all marinas/boat ramps. It's public knowledge...

You're putting a constant by saying all anglers that fish with guides will catch a limit...you're farther from the truth than you think, not only that, but there's no reasoning with you.

Padre,
I'm afraid it's your math/facts that are flawed.

Croaker guides only go when there are croaker readily available. It's easy pickins and requires no real effort or skill. The rest of the year they crawl back under their rocks.

Just because there are 600 registered guides does not mean they are fishing 4 times a week or 52 weeks in a year. I'm sure very few of them book more then 100 trips per annum. It does not mean they are all fishing bait. It does not mean they are all keeping limits on every trip. It doesn't even mean they are all targeting Specks.
Yes the trout have declined all up and down the coast and yes it is IMO due primarily to the use of Croakers for bait. Not just those guides who use them but from average fisherman who use them as well. And those aren't just smucks from Dallas. Plenty of locals are using croakers.

By equating croaker guides with professional guides, you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater and doing a real diservice to some of the very people who help preserve this fishery. If you want to help the trout out, ban the use of croakers for bait. It will help restore the trout and get rid of the fly by night guides.

Yes there is a real problem with declining trout on the Texas coast, but blaming it all on every guide is wrong on many levels.
There are plenty of upstanding guides down there who play by the rules and go above and beyond for our waters and they don't deserve to be lumped in with the croaker crowd.

BTW, Simply because I do not own a boat or get to fish the coast as much as I would like doesn't make my opinions any less valid then yours. If you don't have a airplane, does that prevent you from commenting on your delayed flight? Makes about as much sense.

Spiny - I think trying to reason with 'padre' would be no different than talking to a fencepost or a stump! Who's next to kick the deadhorse?

The guides I know and use do not use croakers; they use nothing but artificials, either conventional tackle or fly, have a very strict limit on numbers kept, if any, and often adopt a "catch and release" philosophy. They apply that to themselves and their clients, and they are highly protective of both fish and environment. They follow this plan on the flats and in the bays. It comes down to the fact that those guides love their work; they love the water and the fish; and they want to get to continue doing what they're doing, so they try to educate their clients and the public and don't harm the environment. I really don't know what goes on in bluewater because I haven't fished there.

I fish when I'm off, and I'm too lazy to clean any I catch, so I am totally catch and release, except for when someone wants to have a fish fry. I have gone to flyfishing and use the flies I tie. Whether I'm catching or not, I'm having fun!

People who fish with croakers, guides or individuals, are not fishermen. They are the leaches with no talent who slide through life taking and never giving. That, folks, is my opinion of croaker fishers. The bait should be outlawed and those that use it should be chased off the water.

Ray

I am new to this forum but not new to the Texas coast,born and raised in Calallen,lived on the coast for my first 15 years, Spent many a weekend at Big shell and in the Laguna Madre. I take as many trips down as I can per year, typically 3 to 6, from Galveston East bay, West bay, Rollover pass, Bolivar Surf, Texas City Dike, POC, Powderhorn Lake, Aransas Bay, Redfish Bay, Traylor Island, Hogg Island, Lydia Ann Channel, Upper Laguna Madre, Baffin Bay. Maybe I am not that great a fisherman cause I have yet to fill my ice chest with my full limit of Speckled trout and reds, except the one trip I went with a guide. I read many articles written by guides in various magazines and they have a very loud voice because it is in print, But they do not own the water, just as I dont personally own it either, it is a resource to be enjoyed by all, and I dont like someone cutting in on my drift as I am hooking up with some nice fish, as it is not the ethical thing to d. I dont think however that just because I paid a guide to fish that day that wherever he takes me is my personal water. Too many guides complain about recreational anglers following them and cutting in on their space, I see guides as I see birds gathering above the water, I will respect his boat and do everything I can to not blow out the fishing but that doesnt mean I shouldnt fish there. Now I respect that guide I went with as he and I got along fine, and I was able to get down to an area that my family had a cabin at when I was young, lots of memories.. But my point is this, Logical restrictions have to be put in place based on sound scientific methods, not opinion, banning guides puts a bad light on sportfishing in general, just as banning a certain type of bait,or banning recreational fishing. I read about Californias idiotic bans on favorite fishing holes, and I shudder to think we are on the same path. There is a solution to all this, and that is get involved and let your voice be heard. Be courteous on the water, after all Aren't We the Friendly State?

Its all about attitudes. If more of us individuals had that attitude and only fished with guides who shared that attitude, we would not be having this debate. Some are like fence posts, as mentioned earlier and nevre change, and never will. Kill every trout, kill them all and kill them all year long. That attitude has to change amongst thinking people and if it does the problem will go away.

Just returned from a trip to Key West. There are many, many more guides operating there now than there were 10 years ago...couldn't even begin to estimate the numbers.....but the fishing is substantially better than 10 years ago. Ask any flats guide that has been there for over 10 years and they will all tell the same story...significantly improved fishing, species that they had rarely seen in the past are now present in fishable numbers. Its all about atitudes...you don't kill a Tarpon, bonefish, permit, or just about any other sport fish with a guide in Key West...doing so may endanger your personal safety.

The fence posts will, over time, disappear....we need to educate the upcoming generations of folks fishing inshore Texas waters to have the same atitudes toward our trout as others have toward sport fish in their areas. When attitudes change, and fence posts rot away, the problems will go away.

I started fishing Port Mansfield when I was 10. Thats 52 years ago

I started fishing Pt. Mansfield when I was 6...in 1951.


HEY JUST A LITTLE ADVICE. IF YOU ARE GOING TO LIE YOU NEED TO KEEP YOU STORIES STRAIGHT. WHAT A NTAC.

Well, Padre's "Math" was suspect from the beginning. Problem is, he only offers anecdotal evidence without any hard facts. Give me some scientific method, and I might be persuaded to believe his position.

 Quote:

Anecdotal evidence is an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay. The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, such as evidence-based medicine, which are types of formal accounts. Some anecdotal evidence does not qualify as scientific evidence because its nature prevents it from being investigated using the scientific method. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy and is sometimes informally referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc. Compare with hasty generalization).

Maybe we should look at the Red limit as well. I think there's too many red fish running around eating up all the trout's forage. If the limits were raised for reds, there just might be more trout. But that's just how I've seen it when growing up around Galveston. I'm also a guide, but for just fresh water. All the guides I know on the coast follow the laws religiously and help to keep the fisheries the best possible but like others have pointed out, there's always a few bad apples. As a matter of fact, some of the restaurants, etc in Galveston should be more closely examined as to where they are getting their speckled trout. hmm...

Don't forget all of the scumbags and illegals that keep everything they catch! Typically, guides are the type of fisherman that has a deep respect for fish of all kinds and the environment. If everyone had that type of passion and respect for fisheries all over, I don't think there would be a problem! There are much more than 600 boats a week in that area that are captained by someone who is not a guide that will keep much more than the limit! Guides are not to blame! If anything, there should be a lot more Game Wardens! My two cents.

I caught a Trout once, but let it go.....

I've never seen a croaker and darn sure wouldnt eat anything I caught on something dead.

I like Redfish!!!! Too bad we cant keep more or em!!!

Guides are the best fishermen there are. Yeah...Yeah..I hear that everyday. And I agree with that. Thats why they take so many trout. They can catch them for their clients when regular guys have a hard time. 20 Years ago Texas passed the " FinFish" laws. That took Trout and Redfish ( From Texas Waters) out of the Supermarkets. This was done to save the Trout and Redfish fishery from ruin. Our guides ..600 strong in the Laguna, are in effect SELLING Trout and Redfish! They are taking Money to help clients catch and KEEP Trout and Redfish. There are plenty of other species to fish for than Trout. How about a GAR Guide..or better yet, a CARP GUIDE!
The Guides are selling our Natural Resource ( Trout ) to the highest biodder. And when they are gone...just like the Red Snapper, We'll be sitting around pointing fingers and trying to figure out where they wemt. Stop the guides from Selling Trout.
The Trout are not THERE's to SELL!

Quit yer bellyachin' There are fish freakin' everywhere. Just because YOU can't go out and catch your "500lb of fish per night" doesn't mean you can't go out and limit out. Just takes work.

So you're also telling us that those who don't have the time or money to buy a boat don't have the right to go out and catch a limit?

Guides make it available for EVERYONE to catch fish and I thought that is what's it all about.

So. Tex. Fish!...Investing in the Fishery is what its all about. I spent 30 years not owning a boat. I fished piers, Wadeing, the surf. Tell me where the Trout have gone. Tell ME why there is a 5 fish limit on Trout in the Lower Laguna. I'm listening? Did all of us "Waders" catch them all? I csn catch all the trout I want, because I can AFFORD to spend any amount I want to accomplish that. But hiring a guide isn't an option for me. They're selling the fish...the Trout. If you can't catch trout on your own...try something more simple for you...like CARP! Or Perch! Better yet. Save the fishery althogether, go to HEB and buy some farm raised catfish!

I walked out near the ship channel in Port Isabel three weeks ago and caught 5 17+ inch trout. Didn't seem too hard.

the 5 fish limit is because of people like you who COMPLAIN they can't find a fish without looking. Look harder.

Your thoughts about being a guide not a job are way off. "Selling" the trout. Free Enterprise. If the product is there, why the heck not? Last time I checked it was completly legal. DEAL WITH IT!

Yeah, I HATE the Croaker Soakers as much as you though. Gotta agree there.

I believe the legal limit is 15" because this is when a trout becomes an adult and can reproduce. If you make it 14" they will never have that chance to reproduce.