This is my first post on this Board. I'm a regular on the Basszone message board. I'm a lawyer in Oklahoma City, and I'm general counsel to Oklahoma Anglers Unlimited (OAU). I have been General Counsel to the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, First Assistant Attorney General and a Judge. I have been in private practice in Oklahoma City now for more than 20 years. Yeah, I'm a geezer, but I know where with all I speak on this dock fishing issue. It is my "hot button." I've crusaded over this for years in Oklahoma. I'm delighted to see that awareness of this issue is moving south of the Red River. We really do have a common interest, and I'm not talking about football.

The problem in Oklahoma is every bit as bad as some of the posts have described, and maybe worse. Last summer at Grand Lake, a dock owner fired a flare gun at a bass fisherman fishing near his dock. I personally know people who have had rocks and boards thrown at them. I know one guy who was hosed down by a dock owner.

There is no law in Oklahoma allowing dock owners to restrict access to public water. The Corps of Engineers on Corps Lakes did adopt a "policy" a few years ago allowing their concessionaires to restrict fishing access within fifty feet of their facilities. By the way, the Tulsa District of the Corps of Engineers is an adjunct member of the Oklahoma Marina Owners Association -- surprise, surprise.

Maybe ten years ago or so, the Corps Ft. Worth District adopted a policy forbidding its concessionaires from prohibiting fishing around docks in Texas Corps lakes. That happened after TPW and the Texas Attorney General went to bat for fishermen and took the Corps on. At the urging of Texas state officials, the Ft. Worth Office decided that as a matter of federal law, they did not have authority to allow concessionaires to prohibit fishing around their docks, except in very limited circumstances. The Tulsa District is subject to the same Federal laws as the Ft. Worth District, yet they (in my opinion) KNOWINGLY violate the law with their existing policy. The Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, the TPW counterpart in Oklahoma, has been reluctant to get involved in any issue that could become controversial, so they've steered clear of this fight and cannot be expected to help.

The Lake Patrol and the Corps know that they can't write a citation to anyone for violating a no fishing zone in a marina, because IT ISN'T ILLEGAL to fish in these places, even if there are signs posted. In fact, it is illegal and a crime in Oklahoma for anyone to interfere with a person lawfully engaged in the act of fishing in Oklahoma waters. The loony tune at Grand who fired the flare gun at a fisherman last summer did get prosecuted under this law... had to pay a $400 fine. Big deal. His place was probably worth $4 million.

Oklahoma Anglers Unlimited is still pretty much of a fledgling organinization and is doing everything possible to beef up its membership to act as an effective voice for fishermen. OAU has had several excellent successes on important issues for fishermen, but OAU lacks the numbers and the money it needs to take the Corps and marina operators to court to stop their obviously ILLEGAL practices on dock fishing.

I strongly endorse the idea of flooding the Corps office in Tulsa with protests and e-mails. I think that's an excellent idea, but it hasn't got much of a chance in my opinion. The Corps is too deeply in bed with the marina owners and their own concessionaires. They have turned a completely deaf ear to the protests they have received from Oklahoma anglers, and they darned well know that what they are doing is illegal. They just don't care.

Everyone please understand that the views expressed in this post are my own and do not constitute an official position of Oklahoma Anglers Unlimited, although I doubt if any of our Directors would disagree with a single thing I've said. We have cussed and discussed these issues many times, but it would take an official action of the Board of Directors to present OAU's position on this matter. Thank you to all of you who have shown an interest in this problem, and here's hoping you can bring some fresh insight to the fight.

Thank you for commenting, we are in this fight together.

You guys should also right the chambers of comerce around the lake let them think the tournament money will go somewere else they will be onyour side. Maybe try to get the guys from BassCamps and a few of the larger tournaments to chime in to them also. will get there attention.

For the record lower case chrisb is not the Chris B who fishes tournaments on texoma regularly. I have never had a run in with anyone at any of the marinas on the lake but it is good to know that there law doesnt have a leg to stand on. Post a email address for us to contact tim.

I am amazed at how little response this is getting, It seems more guys would rather complain about or argue over Ike whos action will not affect your life than being involed in a situation that can and will concern you in the future.

Chris B. You can go to Tulsa District web site and you want to e-mail Pam Kelly or who ever you can.

EDP,
The chamber angle is being approached as we speak, a letter is being drafted.

Tim,

From what the Oklahoma lawyer said, there's no law that says you can't fish a dock.

I understand if a marina owner wants to protect the property of a slip renter. I would think that if you are fishing a marina then you are OK. How many of us have been given a bad look or just plain rude behavior from a person sitting on thier dock as we fish it? Happens all over the US.

If there is not a law on fishing individual docks what are you fighting?

Not trying to sound like I disagree with you on this. Sometimes the message can't be conveyed by typing.

Dan

Welcome to the TFF Floyd! Steelers... What Tim and the lawyer are saying though is they are ignoring the actual federal statute and in cahoots with the lake patrol/and opw/game wardens all three entities are citing people. It is complete BS but if a game warden writes you a ticket what can you do. Its like the property owners have more stroke than the anglers.

I agree this is a big problem for Oklahoma, but Texas fishermen have problems of our own.

Take Falcon Lake for example. Our State Government is letting rampant gill netting occur on the American side of the lake.

However, the biggest problem is the Mexican Government not upholding their end of the bargin with the water release. In past years they have had their side of the gates wide a$$ open, while their Mexico irrigation lakes have been over full pool.

This is just one example of an issue here in Texas. There are others. I am not worried about what goes on in Oklahoma because there are issues we should write our Government about.

Texan,
That is the exact attitude that lets people get away with BS. Why don't you write a letter and get on the phone and make people aware of it. It will take everyone. Have you called your State Rep. or State Senator.

The Tulsa District Army Corp of Engineers has in there regulations that marina owners can restrict water up to 50'. They are requiring when you go get a tournament permit that you make all docks off limits period. The Tulsa District was mandated to lease a certain amount of land for private use and in turn the National govermant gave the Corp the power to decide what actions needed to be taken to get people to lease the property and make it profitable. The Real estate Division of the Tulsa District submitted their ideas and proposals and they were passed by congress or an oversite commitee that was commisioned for this purpose. The 50' restriction was in that proposal and was passed. Now with that said, does that make it a law? I do not know but I thought congress wrote the laws. When the Oklahoma highway patrol pulls up next to you and tells you to leave the marina I dare you to tell them there is no law and leave me alone and see what happens. This is only a problem on corp lakes. I want you guys to go fish Lake Murray Marina and then see if you do not get mad. Then tell there is no issue. It will spread guys. The attitude in this country of its not affecting me so I do not care has to go.

The issue on the border is a big concern that is another country screwing us over. In Oklahoma it is our own country. Mexico will never enforce anylaw on the Border accept ones that put Americans in jail. That issue affects one lake this issue of the Corp abusing its power affect a whole state and soon could be spreading.

am making the phone call now, will put it on speed dial and call several times today. it can't stay busy all day.

WTH? I never took any attitude. I was just curious if this was a lakewide issue or not. I think it is a travesty either way.

Sorry, I took it wrong. I am very emotional about this subject. Again I apologize.

Originally posted by TIM CLINE:
"There is actually a law that says a marina can post a 50' radius no fishing sign and you can be written a ticket."

and

" The Tulsa District policy generally allows marina owners to restrict access around docks for up to 50', if needed, for dock security and public safety."

Tim - It sounds like to me that it is just a policy and that it cannot be enforced. The best that the officers can do is write you a ticket for something else. Accordingly, we can fight it. We can make sure everything is in perfect order on your boat. And, if they write you a ticket for something vague, it can be fought. I have received a ticket from a Corps officer from the Tulsa District before and had it dismissed. Just keep fishing and fighting!

I don't normally fish marinas, but if I did, I wouldn't want to have to go to court every time to defend my rights to fish there. That's ridiculous! The point is, this thing is like a cancer that if left alone will eventually spread. What's to keep them from posting entire creek channels "no fishing zones" somewhere in the future to protect "THEIR" property. All that Tim is asking us to do is take a minute to let those in charge know that being able to fish public waters without being harassed is important to us.

This doesn't affect me directly right now either, but it's not right. Sometimes our silence speaks volumes, telling those involved that we think it's okay. Thanks for your help...

I'm curious how the Army Corp of Engineers gets the Lake Patrol and the Game Wardens to write tickets for other violations to harass anglers for fishing the docs. The Corp has no authority over either the Lake Patrol, which is part of the Highway Patrol, or the Game Wardens.

I'm not trying to say that it doesn't happen. It just makes me wonder how the Tulsa District, if what they are doing is truly bogus, got these two entities to go along with it.