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Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: msbcguy] #12863813 08/14/18 01:01 PM
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Big Hopper Online Content
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Bass are wild animals ... much like whitetail deer. If you go out Saturday with 100 people smashing through the woods, the deer spook out of the area. Bass do the same thing. The lakes are noisy places. Just go swimming some time and stick your head under water. You can hear a boat from miles away. If a deer sees a human form, it runs. So do bass. It's just in their nature.

But the part of "conditioning" that you get wrong is the function of TIME. Bass don't live for 60 -80 years like a human. They live three of four years. after they expire, if they "learned" anything it goes away. It cannot be passed on the further generations. What you see mostly around your corn feeder are does and young deer. Partially because you have not shot at them, or because you have depleted the resource of older 10 pointers. Big Bucks hide deep in the woods and only come out sometimes at night, because it's in their nature to do so.

Consider old baits. If fish hit a Hula Popper 50 years ago .... they will hit a Hula Popper now. There may be a preference to hit some of the newer baits because they look better, have a better action or even smell better that the old Hula Popper.

If you only knew how many bass you are passing by, with your trolling motor on high. There are at least 10 times as many more bass down there that never even pay attention to your lure. That number is probably much higher.


I'm glad there are wine drinkers in this world ..... it saves more beer for the rest of us.
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Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: msbcguy] #12863872 08/14/18 01:49 PM
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Those are some accident prone bass you hang around. wink


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Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: JacksonBean] #12864183 08/14/18 06:25 PM
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Bob Lusk is a friend and a mentor of mine. And while I do not want to speak for Bob, I think their is a difference between conditioning and memory. I often have a short term memory and can forget some things quickly. However, I have been conditioned to certain things that I will never forget. It may seem like semantics, but there is a difference.

Fishing pressure is a large factor in fish catch-ability. I'm really surprised there are many who think not. All the research shows otherwise.


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Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: Jpurdue] #12864460 08/15/18 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Pressure absolutely matters. In fact it matters more than anything else. I've seen this with statistical certainty across many data sets. If pressure didn't matter you wouldn't see the pro's with lighter weights on day 3 or 4 90% of the time as compared to day 1.

Now in terms of memory, in my opinion Lusk is wrong. Go find 10 bass on a beds in the spring. Stick each one and time how long it takes you on average. Then go back 1 day later and try and stick those same bass and see how long it takes you. If a person could do this, it would be pretty clear those fish take longer to catch the second time around. It's because they "remember" getting stuck.

I think we as fishermen often do give the fish too much credit, but there is zero doubt in my mind they can become conditioned to anglers, lures, and pressure. This is also extremely clear in the data. The effectiveness of new lures goes down over time on most bodies of water. I'm sure some of the old timers could tell you crazy stories of how effective spinnerbaits used to be as compared to now.


You cannot say this for fact. Pressure may matter, but not necessarily your premise. Too many other variables at play. Could be that it is just their behavior to hit less the longer they are on the bed. Could be that they ate 10 min before. You cannot prove pressure is the issue here unless you keep them in more controlled conditions.

I do think pressure has some effect, but not sure its as big as some think. We tend to think, "I was catching them yesterday and not today. Must be too much pressure." Could be fishing pressure or atmospheric pressure. no way to say for sure.

Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: SteezMacQueen] #12864581 08/15/18 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: SteezMacQueen
"Fishing pressure" is a made up term to make an average angler feel good about not catching fish.


This....truth.^^^^^


"I only catch the ones that bite"
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Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: bigdiastema] #12864773 08/15/18 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: bigdiastema
Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Pressure absolutely matters. In fact it matters more than anything else. I've seen this with statistical certainty across many data sets. If pressure didn't matter you wouldn't see the pro's with lighter weights on day 3 or 4 90% of the time as compared to day 1.

Now in terms of memory, in my opinion Lusk is wrong. Go find 10 bass on a beds in the spring. Stick each one and time how long it takes you on average. Then go back 1 day later and try and stick those same bass and see how long it takes you. If a person could do this, it would be pretty clear those fish take longer to catch the second time around. It's because they "remember" getting stuck.

I think we as fishermen often do give the fish too much credit, but there is zero doubt in my mind they can become conditioned to anglers, lures, and pressure. This is also extremely clear in the data. The effectiveness of new lures goes down over time on most bodies of water. I'm sure some of the old timers could tell you crazy stories of how effective spinnerbaits used to be as compared to now.


You cannot say this for fact. Pressure may matter, but not necessarily your premise. Too many other variables at play. Could be that it is just their behavior to hit less the longer they are on the bed. Could be that they ate 10 min before. You cannot prove pressure is the issue here unless you keep them in more controlled conditions.

I do think pressure has some effect, but not sure its as big as some think. We tend to think, "I was catching them yesterday and not today. Must be too much pressure." Could be fishing pressure or atmospheric pressure. no way to say for sure.


Maybe not "fact" but I can say it with a high degree of statistical certainty. That's why I said go find 10 bass not one bass. One bass and the variables you speak of come into play. 10 and and then you average how long it took to catch them the first time vs the second time and you'll see it takes a lot longer the second time on average. I've looked at huge reams of data on this, not to mention there are dozens of other scientific studies that VERY clearly show pressure negatively impacting catch rates. Anyone have that link Icon posted a while back to one of the more recent studies on this done by the university of Florida?

Last edited by Jpurdue; 08/15/18 12:05 PM.

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Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: SteezMacQueen] #12865447 08/15/18 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: SteezMacQueen
"Fishing pressure" is a made up term to make an average angler feel good about not catching fish.

Good quote


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Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: msbcguy] #12865690 08/16/18 01:19 AM
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Had a 9.5 lb bass on a C-rig break off right at the boat. Made up another leader and on the next cast to the same spot.. caught the same fish with the hook, worm and half the leader still in it's mouth. So much for that conditioning theory....

Last edited by Fast Lane; 08/16/18 01:20 AM.
Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: Fast Lane] #12865720 08/16/18 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Fast Lane
Had a 9.5 lb bass on a C-rig break off right at the boat. Made up another leader and on the next cast to the same spot.. caught the same fish with the hook, worm and half the leader still in it's mouth. So much for that conditioning theory....


You mean that one time proved your theory, wow.


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Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: GIG'EM AGGIES] #12865757 08/16/18 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: GIG'EM AGGIES
Originally Posted By: Fast Lane
Had a 9.5 lb bass on a C-rig break off right at the boat. Made up another leader and on the next cast to the same spot.. caught the same fish with the hook, worm and half the leader still in it's mouth. So much for that conditioning theory....


You mean that one time proved your theory, wow.


No it disproved the nonsense above. And I've done that more than once.

Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: msbcguy] #12865771 08/16/18 02:15 AM
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I catch them all the time that have a tore area in their mouth from a culling ring.

Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: msbcguy] #12865807 08/16/18 02:39 AM
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Quote:
I think their is a difference between conditioning and memory. I often have a short term memory and can forget some things quickly. However, I have been conditioned to certain things that I will never forget. It may seem like semantics, but there is a difference.


My one acre pond that hold bass from 1-5 lbs is proof of conditioning because of the following:
I would come home with yellow perch, sunfish and crappie in the livewell of my bass boat. At a certain time in the afternoon (5:30pm) I would park the truck /boat parallel to the shore line and throw the fish into the pond but within 15' of the shore. After awhile, bass would line up waiting to be fed whenever the boat arrived. Once 5 bass ate perch, 15 minutes later another group would wait to be fed.

Get this! I could see them and they could see me. It didn't matter that I caught and stocked them. But one more thing about their conditioning: they would only feed after seeing the truck and boat after 5 pm and not before say morning or early afternoon with the sun high. The weed line is what they emerged from and which they disappeared into with fish in mouth.

Now, when it comes to fish logic, memory short or long, and association with bad things that have hooks sticking out of them, I have this tidbit to share:
I wanted to try a dropshot bait on some perch I saw grouped close to shore in 5'. Caught five perch in less than eight minutes, but then a bass shoots out of the weedline and hooks itself. I would of thought that that bass seeing perch being yanked out of the water in such a short period of time, should have been enough to avoid the nose hooked lure. Bass in schools are prone to the same thing: striking lures they see other bass being caught on and struggling to get free of. Guess what a bass thinks dangerous is a whole lot different than what we learn is dangerous.

Fact is, bass are dumb as rocks but hypersensitive to objects that move and look a certain way and not necessarily in a natural way. Fish of all species are opportunists and if the object fits its perception of being vulnerable and easy to strike/get it lips around, it does so if the time is right and if the stimulus pushes the right biologic buttons (lateral line, audio, sight). Saying a fish strikes lures only to feed presumes a lot especially with real fish being digested in their gullets when they strike lures. It could be feeding, but conjecture nonetheless like so many myths about bass.

Last edited by SenkoSam; 08/16/18 02:50 AM.
Re: Bass Facts And Myths [Re: SteezMacQueen] #12866554 08/16/18 07:54 PM
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Huge contrast between fishing a heavily pressured lake and a private lake or pond.

Originally Posted By: SteezMacQueen
"Fishing pressure" is a made up term to make an average angler feel good about not catching fish.


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