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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: COFF]
#12863893
08/14/18 02:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,387
Sawhorse
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,387 |
Just scrolling through the thread here and there seems to be a lot of argument about totally irrelevant points. The chick parked where she shouldn't have, and the guy called her out on it. Okay, whatever.
What happened here was a guy #2 walks up during a verbal altercation and turns it into a physical altercation. It did appear that guy2 was taking another step towards guy1 on the ground. Then guy1 draws his firearm, and guy2 stops and backs away. Guy1 shoots guy2 as he was taking a step backwards.
If I am on that jury, I don't have a problem with anything that happened right up to the point when the trigger was pulled. Guy1 had reason to believe his life was in danger and pulled his firearm, but by the time he had the gun out I think you could question the danger in the situation. Had he come out firing, it would have been open and shut. But he paused for a second or two before he fired, and during that time guy2 backed off and changed the entire dynamic of the situation. I think saying Guy1 had reason to believe his life was in danger is quite a stretch. Maybe he did and maybe he didnt, but based on the video 1Shot posted theres no way I could agree with that statement. He had reason to believe he was going to be in a scuffle, he had reason to believe he was about to get his arse whupped...etc., sure...but what did you see that would lead you to conclude he had reason to believe his life was in danger?
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: beartrap]
#12863895
08/14/18 02:10 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 40,570
WAWI
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 40,570 |
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: WAWI]
#12863896
08/14/18 02:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,265
Bass&More
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,265 |
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: Bass&More]
#12863898
08/14/18 02:13 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 40,570
WAWI
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 40,570 |
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there. My point exactly.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: beartrap]
#12863903
08/14/18 02:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 288
ksjmf
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 288 |
Where is the information on the supposed "cussing of the wife"? That has been used a lot to inflame the folks who think the gentleman who shoved the shooter to the ground was acting appropriately. It was also asked how a normal husband would react if someone "was cussing your wife". The best response is it wouldn't happen because she would not park in a handicap parking spot. I would not run up and blindside someone if i witnessed an altercation, unless i feared for her life that is for sure! I also think that people should speak up when the see unlawful acts occurring. I don't expect the police to be everywhere at all times or that laws are only to be followed in the presence of law enforcement. If the man shoved the shooter to the ground and said "i'm going to beat your a#%, cracker!" would he be ok to shoot then? That seems as likely a scenario as the dead guy feared for his wife's safety and had to assault someone.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: beartrap]
#12863910
08/14/18 02:22 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 40,570
WAWI
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 40,570 |
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/victims-girlfriend-florida-gunman-provoked-fatal-stand-ground/story%3Fid%3D56751894&ved=2ahUKEwjYjbKP2-zcAhUHTawKHQNVD3wQqUMwBnoECAgQHA&usg=AOvVaw0m8pdfGA0m5D5kSN5zv3gf
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: ksjmf]
#12863911
08/14/18 02:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 72,570
Mark Perry
Super Freak
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Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 72,570 |
Where is the information on the supposed "cussing of the wife"? That has been used a lot to inflame the folks who think the gentleman who shoved the shooter to the ground was acting appropriately. It was also asked how a normal husband would react if someone "was cussing your wife". The best response is it wouldn't happen because she would not park in a handicap parking spot. I would not run up and blindside someone if i witnessed an altercation, unless i feared for her life that is for sure! I also think that people should speak up when the see unlawful acts occurring. I don't expect the police to be everywhere at all times or that laws are only to be followed in the presence of law enforcement. If the man shoved the shooter to the ground and said "i'm going to beat your a#%, cracker!" would he be ok to shoot then? That seems as likely a scenario as the dead guy feared for his wife's safety and had to assault someone. He had his finger in her face and was pretty animated. You telling me you would just sit by and watch it happen had that been your wife?
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: Sawhorse]
#12863912
08/14/18 02:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 18,230
COFF
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 18,230 |
Just scrolling through the thread here and there seems to be a lot of argument about totally irrelevant points. The chick parked where she shouldn't have, and the guy called her out on it. Okay, whatever.
What happened here was a guy #2 walks up during a verbal altercation and turns it into a physical altercation. It did appear that guy2 was taking another step towards guy1 on the ground. Then guy1 draws his firearm, and guy2 stops and backs away. Guy1 shoots guy2 as he was taking a step backwards.
If I am on that jury, I don't have a problem with anything that happened right up to the point when the trigger was pulled. Guy1 had reason to believe his life was in danger and pulled his firearm, but by the time he had the gun out I think you could question the danger in the situation. Had he come out firing, it would have been open and shut. But he paused for a second or two before he fired, and during that time guy2 backed off and changed the entire dynamic of the situation. I think saying “Guy1 had reason to believe his life was in danger” is quite a stretch. Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t, but based on the video 1Shot posted there’s no way I could agree with that statement. He had reason to believe he was going to be in a scuffle, he had reason to believe he was about to get his arse whupped...etc., sure...but what did you see that would lead you to conclude “he had reason to believe his life was in danger”? I should have lead that sentence with "It is conceivable that he felt his life was in danger..." It looks like a scrawny dude got shoved by a big strong dude. And the scrawny dude folded like a flower. Yeah, I could see how he felt threatened, even for his life. But I also saw the big strong dude stop and take a step or two away from the man on the ground before the gun was fired. There are lots of things that went wrong here, but only one that matters. The question to answer (and it will be a jury that answers it) is whether or not at the moment the trigger was pulled, was guy1 reasonably defending himself from further harm? Personally, I do not think it was a good shoot. I don't think I could convict him of murder though due to the surrounding circumstances. If there is a charge like "unlawful discharge of a firearm resulting in injury or death" then I would ring him up no problem. I just don't know if I would call it murder.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: WAWI]
#12863917
08/14/18 02:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,387
Sawhorse
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,387 |
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there. My point exactly. Really??? Seems like theres an entire continuum of ways to respond - some appropriate, some not. At one end of that continuum is lethal force. Id have to assume most firearms instructors and most logical, responsible and well-trained gun owners would support the notion that lethal force should be used as a last option. Key word being option. I fail to understand how (given the scenario you described) walking out of the store looking to use lethal force could in any way be considered the appropriate course of action - IF thats what you were suggesting.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: beartrap]
#12863921
08/14/18 02:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,490
redchevy
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,490 |
From the video linked above it looks like the boyfriend husband whatever he is shoves the guy down and continues to advance toward him till he sees the gun then starts backing away. I was told in CHL class you don't pull your gun to threaten you pull it to use deadly force. I believe he was justified in doing what he did by the law. I think if cooler heads would have prevailed on both sides it may have all ended differently. He could have just walked past the car and mumbled some obscenities under his breath got along with his day.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: Sawhorse]
#12863922
08/14/18 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,265
Bass&More
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,265 |
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there. My point exactly. Really??? Seems like theres an entire continuum of ways to respond - some appropriate, some not. At one end of that continuum is lethal force. Id have to assume most firearms instructors and most logical, responsible and well-trained gun owners would support the notion that lethal force should be used as a last option. Key word being option. I fail to understand how (given the scenario you described) walking out of the store looking to use lethal force could in any way be considered the appropriate course of action - IF thats what you were suggesting. case by case basis, not a lot of time to exercise or think about the Dear Abby options
Last edited by Bass&More; 08/14/18 02:40 PM.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: Bass&More]
#12863937
08/14/18 02:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,387
Sawhorse
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,387 |
.
Really??? Seems like theres an entire continuum of ways to respond - some appropriate, some not. At one end of that continuum is lethal force. Id have to assume most firearms instructors and most logical, responsible and well-trained gun owners would support the notion that lethal force should be used as a last option. Key word being option.
I fail to understand how (given the scenario you described) walking out of the store looking to use lethal force could in any way be considered the appropriate course of action - IF thats what you were suggesting. case by case basis, not a lot of time to exercise or think about the Dear Abby options Is that what firearms training instructors call them, Dear Abbey options? Is Leave the store and immediately shoot the perpetrator the correct answer to - If youre in a store and you hear that someone is in the parking lot verbally harassing your spouse...as a responsible gun owner you should _____.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: beartrap]
#12863949
08/14/18 03:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 18,070
Icepick
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 18,070 |
Get ready for the trial by the media before this ever gets to a courtroom. Already hearing things about the shooter's past. Here are a few facts; The shooter had no criminal record and was never charged or even arrested in the alleged road rage incidents. The man who attacked the shooter had a criminal record including felony aggravated battery.
This thread needs more cowbell ...
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: beartrap]
#12863966
08/14/18 03:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Snakeyes711
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
With a US population of 325 million I'm guessing this happens at least a couple of times a day. Someone pulls a handgun to "deter" a potential attacker. 99.999 percent of the time the trigger never gets squeezed. This is what happens when that 1 % the trigger does get squeezed. I think the shooters reaction to the offense was disproportionate to the offense. Twer me I'd give him about 20 years in the pen.
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Re: shooting legal or not.....
[Re: beartrap]
#12863970
08/14/18 03:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 23,930
Nocona Brian
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 23,930 |
To me the shooter was the aggressor that first got the thing rolling. Seems I remember reading somewhere you can't provoke them into a situation where you can then shoot them.
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