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Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: COFF] #12863893 08/14/18 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: COFF
Just scrolling through the thread here and there seems to be a lot of argument about totally irrelevant points. The chick parked where she shouldn't have, and the guy called her out on it. Okay, whatever.

What happened here was a guy #2 walks up during a verbal altercation and turns it into a physical altercation. It did appear that guy2 was taking another step towards guy1 on the ground. Then guy1 draws his firearm, and guy2 stops and backs away. Guy1 shoots guy2 as he was taking a step backwards.

If I am on that jury, I don't have a problem with anything that happened right up to the point when the trigger was pulled. Guy1 had reason to believe his life was in danger and pulled his firearm, but by the time he had the gun out I think you could question the danger in the situation. Had he come out firing, it would have been open and shut. But he paused for a second or two before he fired, and during that time guy2 backed off and changed the entire dynamic of the situation.


I think saying “Guy1 had reason to believe his life was in danger” is quite a stretch. Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t, but based on the video 1Shot posted there’s no way I could agree with that statement. He had reason to believe he was going to be in a scuffle, he had reason to believe he was about to get his arse whupped...etc., sure...but what did you see that would lead you to conclude “he had reason to believe his life was in danger”?

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: beartrap] #12863895 08/14/18 02:10 PM
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There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there.

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: WAWI] #12863896 08/14/18 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: WAWI
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there.


peep

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: Bass&More] #12863898 08/14/18 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bass&More
Originally Posted By: WAWI
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there.


peep


My point exactly.

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: beartrap] #12863903 08/14/18 02:18 PM
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Where is the information on the supposed "cussing of the wife"? That has been used a lot to inflame the folks who think the gentleman who shoved the shooter to the ground was acting appropriately. It was also asked how a normal husband would react if someone "was cussing your wife". The best response is it wouldn't happen because she would not park in a handicap parking spot. I would not run up and blindside someone if i witnessed an altercation, unless i feared for her life that is for sure! I also think that people should speak up when the see unlawful acts occurring. I don't expect the police to be everywhere at all times or that laws are only to be followed in the presence of law enforcement. If the man shoved the shooter to the ground and said "i'm going to beat your a#%, cracker!" would he be ok to shoot then? That seems as likely a scenario as the dead guy feared for his wife's safety and had to assault someone.

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: beartrap] #12863910 08/14/18 02:22 PM
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/victims-girlfriend-florida-gunman-provoked-fatal-stand-ground/story%3Fid%3D56751894&ved=2ahUKEwjYjbKP2-zcAhUHTawKHQNVD3wQqUMwBnoECAgQHA&usg=AOvVaw0m8pdfGA0m5D5kSN5zv3gf

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: ksjmf] #12863911 08/14/18 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: ksjmf
Where is the information on the supposed "cussing of the wife"? That has been used a lot to inflame the folks who think the gentleman who shoved the shooter to the ground was acting appropriately. It was also asked how a normal husband would react if someone "was cussing your wife". The best response is it wouldn't happen because she would not park in a handicap parking spot. I would not run up and blindside someone if i witnessed an altercation, unless i feared for her life that is for sure! I also think that people should speak up when the see unlawful acts occurring. I don't expect the police to be everywhere at all times or that laws are only to be followed in the presence of law enforcement. If the man shoved the shooter to the ground and said "i'm going to beat your a#%, cracker!" would he be ok to shoot then? That seems as likely a scenario as the dead guy feared for his wife's safety and had to assault someone.


He had his finger in her face and was pretty animated. You telling me you would just sit by and watch it happen had that been your wife?

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: Sawhorse] #12863912 08/14/18 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sawhorse
Originally Posted By: COFF
Just scrolling through the thread here and there seems to be a lot of argument about totally irrelevant points. The chick parked where she shouldn't have, and the guy called her out on it. Okay, whatever.

What happened here was a guy #2 walks up during a verbal altercation and turns it into a physical altercation. It did appear that guy2 was taking another step towards guy1 on the ground. Then guy1 draws his firearm, and guy2 stops and backs away. Guy1 shoots guy2 as he was taking a step backwards.

If I am on that jury, I don't have a problem with anything that happened right up to the point when the trigger was pulled. Guy1 had reason to believe his life was in danger and pulled his firearm, but by the time he had the gun out I think you could question the danger in the situation. Had he come out firing, it would have been open and shut. But he paused for a second or two before he fired, and during that time guy2 backed off and changed the entire dynamic of the situation.


I think saying “Guy1 had reason to believe his life was in danger” is quite a stretch. Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t, but based on the video 1Shot posted there’s no way I could agree with that statement. He had reason to believe he was going to be in a scuffle, he had reason to believe he was about to get his arse whupped...etc., sure...but what did you see that would lead you to conclude “he had reason to believe his life was in danger”?


I should have lead that sentence with "It is conceivable that he felt his life was in danger..." It looks like a scrawny dude got shoved by a big strong dude. And the scrawny dude folded like a flower. Yeah, I could see how he felt threatened, even for his life.

But I also saw the big strong dude stop and take a step or two away from the man on the ground before the gun was fired.

There are lots of things that went wrong here, but only one that matters. The question to answer (and it will be a jury that answers it) is whether or not at the moment the trigger was pulled, was guy1 reasonably defending himself from further harm?

Personally, I do not think it was a good shoot. I don't think I could convict him of murder though due to the surrounding circumstances. If there is a charge like "unlawful discharge of a firearm resulting in injury or death" then I would ring him up no problem. I just don't know if I would call it murder.


Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: WAWI] #12863917 08/14/18 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: WAWI
Originally Posted By: Bass&More
Originally Posted By: WAWI
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there.


peep


My point exactly.


Really??? Seems like there’s an entire continuum of ways to respond - some appropriate, some not. At one end of that continuum is “lethal force”. I’d have to assume most firearms instructors and most logical, responsible and well-trained gun owners would support the notion that “lethal force should be used as a last option”. Key word being “option”.

I fail to understand how (given the scenario you described) walking out of the store looking to use lethal force could in any way be considered the appropriate course of action - IF that’s what you were suggesting.

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: beartrap] #12863921 08/14/18 02:38 PM
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From the video linked above it looks like the boyfriend husband whatever he is shoves the guy down and continues to advance toward him till he sees the gun then starts backing away. I was told in CHL class you don't pull your gun to threaten you pull it to use deadly force. I believe he was justified in doing what he did by the law. I think if cooler heads would have prevailed on both sides it may have all ended differently. He could have just walked past the car and mumbled some obscenities under his breath got along with his day.

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: Sawhorse] #12863922 08/14/18 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sawhorse
Originally Posted By: WAWI
Originally Posted By: Bass&More
Originally Posted By: WAWI
There is an interview with wife, it is suggested that a witness went into the store to report the shooter harassing the woman and the husband hears it. If this is your wife and it was going down as such how are you walking out there.


peep


My point exactly.


Really??? Seems like there’s an entire continuum of ways to respond - some appropriate, some not. At one end of that continuum is “lethal force”. I’d have to assume most firearms instructors and most logical, responsible and well-trained gun owners would support the notion that “lethal force should be used as a last option”. Key word being “option”.

I fail to understand how (given the scenario you described) walking out of the store looking to use lethal force could in any way be considered the appropriate course of action - IF that’s what you were suggesting.



case by case basis, not a lot of time to exercise or think about the Dear Abby options peep

Last edited by Bass&More; 08/14/18 02:40 PM.
Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: Bass&More] #12863937 08/14/18 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bass&More
Originally Posted By: Sawhorse
.

Really??? Seems like there’s an entire continuum of ways to respond - some appropriate, some not. At one end of that continuum is “lethal force”. I’d have to assume most firearms instructors and most logical, responsible and well-trained gun owners would support the notion that “lethal force should be used as a last option”. Key word being “option”.

I fail to understand how (given the scenario you described) walking out of the store looking to use lethal force could in any way be considered the appropriate course of action - IF that’s what you were suggesting.



case by case basis, not a lot of time to exercise or think about the Dear Abby options peep


Is that what firearms training instructors call them, “Dear Abbey options”?

Is “Leave the store and immediately shoot the perpetrator” the correct answer to - “If you’re in a store and you hear that someone is in the parking lot verbally harassing your spouse...as a responsible gun owner you should _____.”

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: beartrap] #12863949 08/14/18 03:02 PM
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Get ready for the trial by the media before this ever gets to a courtroom.
Already hearing things about the shooter's past.
Here are a few facts;
The shooter had no criminal record and was never charged or even arrested in the alleged road rage incidents.
The man who attacked the shooter had a criminal record including felony aggravated battery.


This thread needs more cowbell ...
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Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: beartrap] #12863966 08/14/18 03:17 PM
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With a US population of 325 million I'm guessing this happens at least a couple of times a day. Someone pulls a handgun to "deter" a potential attacker. 99.999 percent of the time the trigger never gets squeezed. This is what happens when that 1 % the trigger does get squeezed. I think the shooters reaction to the offense was disproportionate to the offense. Twer me I'd give him about 20 years in the pen.

Re: shooting legal or not..... [Re: beartrap] #12863970 08/14/18 03:25 PM
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To me the shooter was the aggressor that first got the thing rolling. Seems I remember reading somewhere you can't provoke them into a situation where you can then shoot them.


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