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Re: deep water bite [Re: hawkeye442] #12772470 05/29/18 12:35 AM
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Are the bass traditionally suspended, or on the bottom?

If someone says they are catching them 25 deep, would that eliminate the deeper humps on the lake?


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Re: deep water bite [Re: hawkeye442] #12772476 05/29/18 12:37 AM
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Thanks RedSkeeter. I understand you can tell us a thing or two about fishing contours and deep water structures. You had some good days on Fork and I don't think they were all shallow bites.


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Re: deep water bite [Re: LeonSulak] #12772494 05/29/18 12:49 AM
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Amazing posts on this thread


Lake Texoma Striper Guide Chris Carey


Re: deep water bite [Re: Kay Dyson] #12772532 05/29/18 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: RedSkeeter
Originally Posted By: Donald Harper
My goal has always been to study maps and learn to recognize the coves, creeks, flats, and structure that is required to find bigger Bass. Once you learn this you will have no trouble following them to their comfort zones as mentioned below.

In most reservoirs, bass reside on ledges and drop-offs adjacent to shallow-water feeding grounds. They travel along these areas in search of food. On the deep side of the ledge or drop-off, bass experience comfortable temperatures and better oxygen levels. The depth provides shelter while the shallow side provides food sources such as Minnows, Bluegill, and Crayfish. To determine where to start your search, look for ledges and drop-offs with a significant edge. The faster the drop from shallow feeding grounds to deep water, the more comfortable a bass feels in its environment.

Keep your boat in the 20 depth range following the contours that you have studied before your trip. For safety and to preclude outside disturbance, bass will always move back to positions near deeper water when not actively pursuing food. The depth range that I have found to be most productive is between eight and 15 feet. Therefore, the most potentially productive ledges will be within that range. I think isolated cover is always the deal. It doesn't matter whether you're fishing deep or shallow, wood or grass, clear or dirty water; bass are going to be holding around isolated cover. Use baits that will search for these pieces of cover along that route to the shallows. You must select the ones that can be cast long distances from the 20 ft. contour to the Irregular Features that the Bass will be using toward the shallows.

Cover consists of weeds, brush, grass or timber, and is used for ambush. It is not used for his protection. Bass will develop a route from there comfort zone moving from one piece of cover to another until they have fed up then return. Sometime they have to continue along this route all the way to the shoreline. Structure is for resting, comfort, security and for feeding just outside of the cover. The best of two worlds is finding a piece of structure as shallow as possible with cover on it.

A productive structure feature is one which provides ready availability of food or serves as a reference point during periods of inactivity. In most cases, the bigger bass will be found on the best piece of structure that has cover and baitfish. When a bass experiences fear or senses danger, his instinctive reaction is to dash for deep water.

Unless actively feeding, a bass will always hold near the edge of the drop into deep water. Of all available structure features, ledges and drops are the most common AND the most continuously productive. A drop is a contour change resulting in deeper water and has a downwards angler of decent of 30 degrees, or more. Any change less than 30 degrees is considered a slope and will not be as productive.

A ledge is the upper lip, or edge, of a drop. While ledges and drops usually exist throughout a body of water, those associated with submerged channels and the deepest water in the area are always more consistently productive. Ledges are a strange beastsometimes you can fish a mile without any bites, then find several quality schools of bass in the next mile.

The quickest way to locate good ledges and drops is to consult a well-defined topographical map. Start your map analysis near river and feeder creek channels and look for strong bottom irregularities and rapid contour (depth) changes. Key in on those that fall within the 8-15 foot range. You will survey the general area for indications of cover close by as you fish these spots. The final step becomes to prioritize the list. To do this, I select the locations with the sharpest drop-off and deepest adjacent water and number them. Then they are rated using about 25 different factors that make a spot the best it can be. You now have a plan of attack which has been thought out in a logical manner. It is OK to use your instincts. I find a lot more fish with a rod and reel than I do with a depth finder.

I took a look at this screen shot and this is what I see. Before the lake was impounded farmers would dredge the river channel especially near the bends to open up the river and make it deeper. This kept some of the crops from flooding. The area to the NW is that kind of spot. I am seeing piles of rubble all in a row and those are man made deposits on somewhat higher ground. It makes for good fish if the contours toward deep water are excellent.

I am outlining the 22 ft. contour to get a better feel for how it lays. The best high spots are then RED Circled. This is an easy spot to side scan before fishing. Many spots that I pick on some lakes can not be scanned for fear of spooking the fish. Open water ares like this can be scanned; just keep the boat in 20 ft. or more to do so and only make one pass. 9 times out of 10 I am going to see a couple of fish then turn around and fish it. So with that being said just fish it to begin with. If they are going to bite it will happen pretty quick.

This is how I do it: Man in front of the boat cast to specific shallower water spots that will be marked with the RED Xs and RED Circles. Major protrusions will be Circled. The man in the back will drag a Crig as you will be keeping your boat on the deep water contour out and around each of these irregular features in 15 to 20 ft. of water. My baits of choice for casting a Trig or weightless bait to the shallows are: 7 Power Worm in Pumpkin Seed to the bushes, Senkos, Grande Fat Baby Ring Fry and Flukes to the rocks. Crig bait is the Baby Brush Hog and Grande Ring Fry in Watermelon Red.

The contours outside the row of rubble HUMPS are not super contours. They are wide and basically flat for long distances. The humps are all you have and there is nothing to bring fish to those humps. It takes super contours to deliver the fish. Side Scan to see them then fish for them. I have set up 3 controlled drifts with the SE wind only using the TM to stay on the RED Lines. You are drifting across the top of the humps and on the sides of some. Two long drifts going NW should do it. The short line drift is across the top of the 3 humps that are not in line with the others. Some humps range in an elevation rise of 7 ft.. others only 3 foot rise. Just dont see much here to make fish feel at home and safe. The river channel is off the SE end of the formation; but the river at this section of the lake does not have river channel definition. It is just a wide depression which is narrow in some spots and wide in others.

Now the Shoreline RED Spray line is a different story. I have BLACK Lined the ditch that cuts through the Rubble field. On each side is a FUNNEL POINT marked in WHITE Circles. This is where your fish will be. Put the boat on Contour at 20 to 22 ft. and follow that line making cast to all the RED Circles. Slow way down when you get to the Funnel points.


Damn..... thumb


+1 on that 411 for sure! Great detail Donald!!



Re: deep water bite [Re: Donald Harper] #12772539 05/29/18 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: Donald Harper
Thanks RedSkeeter. I understand you can tell us a thing or two about fishing contours and deep water structures. You had some good days on Fork and I don't think they were all shallow bites.


Mr. & Mrs. RedSkeeter finished in the Top Three more times than I can count. They built their home at Penson Point on just the money I lost to them in a two year period! roflmao

Great peeps too!! thumb



Re: deep water bite [Re: Capt. Bryan] #12772699 05/29/18 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: Capt. Bryan
One thing I notice at Sam Rayburn is once you stop getting bites on points and ledges in the 12-15 foot cast too depth I will sometimes actually be sitting over the fish in 20-22 feet. My last 2 trips I repositioned in 10-12 feet of water and casted out into 20-25 feet of water and brought the lure back up shallow and smoked them. Didn't have any monsters but lots of action. This has worked on Rayburn for years especially during mid day. I will usually ditch the crankbaits and throw a t-rig, c-rig or football jig when I do this. I like points that fall off into a creek or have a channel swing near it. It's a good pattern to run because usually within 10 minutes of pulling in you will know if they are there or not. If they are there you can catch 15-20 pretty quick. If they are not run along and try it again later in the day. All too often I think we try a spot and dont get bit so we give up on it for the rest of the day. Many times it's just a timing issue, hit it again later.

My dad told me stories of fishing with 2 brothers who guided on Rayburn in the 70's, they would hit one spot at daylight then had a milk run of others they would hit in a certain order. One time he asked why they didn't start off in the big fish hole they pulled into earlier and he said because the fish were not here this morning they dont show up until after 11:00. When your on the water enough you start picking up on times when certain spots or areas are better than others. Until then it's like school bus fishing, you stop here and pick up one, next stop pick up 1 or 2 etc. When you figure them out you build confidence and numbers start going up. Last Thursday I fished Rayburn and did a lot of searching and trying to figure out a pattern. It was slow for me then right before I left I hit a spot I researched on my navionics app that looked right. At 2:00 I caught 16 keepers in 20 casts on a creek channel bend that was covered in brushpiles in 23 feet of water. Passed by that spot 100 times and never paid it any attention to it before.


You fish for bass?


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Re: deep water bite [Re: hawkeye442] #12772868 05/29/18 02:02 PM
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This is the first year I have really had any confidence fishing offshore. In the last month fishing Cedar Creek, Rayburn, and Richland Chambers we have probably put 120+ fish in the boat from the 10-25ft of water range. However, I have yet to be able to find the big fish out there. Seems like we will always catch a few in the 3lb- 3.5lb range but most are 12"-16" fish. We have yet to find any big fish out deep. When you find these schools of fish offshore that are just keepers to 2.5lbs, do you expect any big fish to be mixed in with that group? You hear some people say that big fish are loners. Starting to think that may be true. We primarily use a c-rig to start on these deep spots then once we find some active fish we will throw jigs, big shaky heads, and crank baits to try for the larger bite. Maybe I need to adjust my lure selection? Just not sure.

Re: deep water bite [Re: Tx Tree Grower] #12773546 05/30/18 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tx Tree Grower
This is the first year I have really had any confidence fishing offshore. In the last month fishing Cedar Creek, Rayburn, and Richland Chambers we have probably put 120+ fish in the boat from the 10-25ft of water range. However, I have yet to be able to find the big fish out there. Seems like we will always catch a few in the 3lb- 3.5lb range but most are 12"-16" fish. We have yet to find any big fish out deep. When you find these schools of fish offshore that are just keepers to 2.5lbs, do you expect any big fish to be mixed in with that group? You hear some people say that big fish are loners. Starting to think that may be true. We primarily use a c-rig to start on these deep spots then once we find some active fish we will throw jigs, big shaky heads, and crank baits to try for the larger bite. Maybe I need to adjust my lure selection? Just not sure.


There is some truth to the Big Fish Schooling theory. All my big stringers of fish coming out of deep water were caught on an exact spot and all the fish caught were good ones. I have also caught a couple of what I call Guards before catching a big fish out of the bunch. Smaller fish move around more and are just by nature aggressive moving in quickly to get the bait before another fish gets it. When the Guards are there I have never caught a good number of big fish off a spot. We caught 32 Bass late one afternoon on Amistad and they were all over 5 lbs. Not a small fish in the bunch and this was 3 hours of fishing. I truly believe when a school of Big Bass group together on a structure; they run the smaller fish off. If they are individual large Bass there may be a Guard or two hanging around. roflmao


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Re: deep water bite [Re: hawkeye442] #12773913 05/30/18 01:40 PM
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This is a GREAT thread. The knowledge here being shared is pure gold.

I understand that deep water points close to river channels and swings are great places to fish,
but what about lakes that dont have any river channels??


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Re: deep water bite [Re: Big Kahuna Fishing] #12773939 05/30/18 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Big Kahuna Fishing
This is a GREAT thread. The knowledge here being shared is pure gold.

I understand that deep water points close to river channels and swings are great places to fish,
but what about lakes that dont have any river channels??



There are lots of good lakes that have silted in over the years and the depressions, ledges, bends in the main channel just are not Super Contours any more. Every lake has a channel of some sort. They were build on a Creek, Branch, and the larger ones on Rivers. I must have a contour map on all lakes to take a look. I get request to help on lakes that have not been mapped. These are very difficult to do at home without going to the reservoir and spending the time learning the lake form what we are seeing on the depth finder.

Again, every lake has a channel of some kind that fills the lake with rain water. If it is not silted in over the years then there are off shore spots that Big Bass will live on and they can be found if there is a contour map. These flat lakes as you speak of like Lake Palestine are very difficult to map. These fish have no choice. They use what they have to survive and thrive.

Keep this in mind. Your lake has Bass in it. Those Bass have to use what they have there to live on, feed on and spawn on. I can find them with the right tools and time on the water.


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Re: deep water bite [Re: hawkeye442] #12774174 05/30/18 05:13 PM
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Donald ,a Lake like Fork has a lot of good looking places to explore,but a lot is in the 30 to 40 ft range. Will these areas hold bass like the 20 to 30 ft range?

Re: deep water bite [Re: Donald Harper] #12774175 05/30/18 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: Donald Harper
Originally Posted By: Big Kahuna Fishing
This is a GREAT thread. The knowledge here being shared is pure gold.

I understand that deep water points close to river channels and swings are great places to fish,
but what about lakes that dont have any river channels??



There are lots of good lakes that have silted in over the years and the depressions, ledges, bends in the main channel just are not Super Contours any more. Every lake has a channel of some sort. They were build on a Creek, Branch, and the larger ones on Rivers. I must have a contour map on all lakes to take a look. I get request to help on lakes that have not been mapped. These are very difficult to do at home without going to the reservoir and spending the time learning the lake form what we are seeing on the depth finder.

Again, every lake has a channel of some kind that fills the lake with rain water. If it is not silted in over the years then there are off shore spots that Big Bass will live on and they can be found if there is a contour map. These flat lakes as you speak of like Lake Palestine are very difficult to map. These fish have no choice. They use what they have to survive and thrive.

Keep this in mind. Your lake has Bass in it. Those Bass have to use what they have there to live on, feed on and spawn on. I can find them with the right tools and time on the water.


Thank you Donald.
The lake I was referencing is Lake Waco.
Which I believe was the lake you used your magic red marker on, earlier in this thread.
We have Hog Creek and Reynolds creek, but thats about it.


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Re: deep water bite [Re: LA Ron] #12774505 05/30/18 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: LaRon
Donald ,a Lake like Fork has a lot of good looking places to explore,but a lot is in the 30 to 40 ft range. Will these areas hold bass like the 20 to 30 ft range?


If the best contour Irregular Feature is at 40 ft. then that is where they will be. How far they will move to feed toward shallower water near by, all depends on the food source and how quick they get their belly full. Then they will return to the area that they have chosen to live and suspend there until the next feeding period.

Bass by nature are aggressive and can be caught while at rest on this piece of structure that they are holding on, suspended beside or in the shade of the ledge. You have to use the right rigs and know the techniques. Mark Pack is the best that I know of that has this technique mastered.


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Re: deep water bite [Re: hawkeye442] #12774959 05/31/18 03:04 AM
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I would also like to thank Donald Harper and others for the detailed insight. This thread has been extraordinarily informative. Although I do not fish tournaments I like to learn tools that can be used on a variety of lakes. The beauty of all this is that we can catch & release as opposed to trophy big game hunting!

Do you concern yourself with thermoclines at any time of the year? Seems like oxygen levels at various depths were often talked about years ago. Perhaps that is seasonal and involves considerably deeper water?

Re: deep water bite [Re: Fish2Chill 1] #12775040 05/31/18 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: Fish2Chill 1
I would also like to thank Donald Harper and others for the detailed insight. This thread has been extraordinarily informative. Although I do not fish tournaments I like to learn tools that can be used on a variety of lakes. The beauty of all this is that we can catch & release as opposed to trophy big game hunting!

Do you concern yourself with thermoclines at any time of the year? Seems like oxygen levels at various depths were often talked about years ago. Perhaps that is seasonal and involves considerably deeper water?


I have not fished a huge number of lakes in my life time; because I wanted to do well every time out. All the lakes that I fished never seemed to have a thermocline. I do know it exist in a lot of lakes and fish avoid that depth because of the lack of Oxygen or even the PH of the water at that depth. When I am running up the lake from one spot to the next I am paying attention to the depth that I am seeing most of the suspended fish. That tells me a lot when I get to my deep water spot. If I am seeing fish all around the lake on the depth finder at 20 ft. then I know that water is good and that should be my target depth. Fish will connect to the points at 20 ft. that day. Tomorrow will be a different story and they may be at 15 ft..


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