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Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
#12760858
05/18/18 09:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 18,070
Icepick
OP
TFF Guru
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OP
TFF Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 18,070 |
As a parent and gun owner I'll preface this by saying I have both a minor at home AND loaded guns. I have trained my child in the use of firearms as well as acceptable use of said weapons (home invasion). With that being said, what if my child decided to do what this kid did today? Am I responsible?
This thread needs more cowbell ...
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760867
05/18/18 09:29 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,659
PondFish
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,659 |
Too many 'depends' to give a good answer
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760871
05/18/18 09:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 18,070
Icepick
OP
TFF Guru
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OP
TFF Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 18,070 |
I'll narrow the "depends". My child knows where one of the loaded weapons is located. (Wouldn't do any good in a home invasion scenario to have to spend valuable time opening a safe).
This thread needs more cowbell ...
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760874
05/18/18 09:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,566
Uncle Zeek
aka "Dad"
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aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,566 |
In this kind of hypothetical, I would ask questions like:
Is it negligent for a parent to have firearms stored in the home without being secured by a lock, safe, cable, or other device?
Is it negligent for a parent to leave a firearm within easy access to the child?
Did the parent negligently leave the firearm accessible to the child?
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760877
05/18/18 09:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,581
GROD
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,581 |
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760878
05/18/18 09:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,182
Mike Keenan
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,182 |
As a parent and gun owner I'll preface this by saying I have both a minor at home AND loaded guns. I have trained my child in the use of firearms as well as acceptable use of said weapons (home invasion). With that being said, what if my child decided to do what this kid did today? Am I responsible? Thats a great question right there... sad thing, back when I was in high school (late 80s), it was normal to see a students truck in the parking lot with a shotgun rack with a shotgun in it. Most of us hunted birds after school. If you did that nowadays, you would be kicked out of school and sent to prison. Different day different age... what happened to us as a society?
R.I.P. Mike "pappy" "broken rod" Green born 07-16-62 on to better fishing 06-10-08. www.basscat.com
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760880
05/18/18 09:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,581
GROD
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,581 |
And this piece of [censored] was 17 and an adult in the state of Texas.
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760881
05/18/18 09:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,844
dallasdawg
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,844 |
I think if a parent can show they have done all they can to teach and train a child in the proper use of firearms and stores firearms properly, it would be hard from me to blame the parent. The child was shown the right path and purposefully chose not to take it.
I guess the big question in all of this is where you set the line for parental effort vs. willful negligence.
It is a tough hypothetical with many "what ifs".
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760888
05/18/18 09:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,040
soggybottom
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,040 |
I dont want a child with hormones running wild quick access to a weapon. I will take my chances with home invasion but Im not going to take a chance my kid does something stupid on accident or otherwise, chances are a hundred times more likely than repelling an intruder.
pledge= fishstick
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: soggybottom]
#12760892
05/18/18 09:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,566
Uncle Zeek
aka "Dad"
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aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,566 |
I dont want a child with hormones running wild quick access to a weapon. I will take my chances with home invasion but Im not going to take a chance my kid does something stupid on accident or otherwise, chances are a hundred times more likely than repelling an intruder. Yeah, my inclinations run the same way. I'm willing to use a biometric pistol safe by my bedside to ensure that I'm not leaving a loaded gun where a kid can grab it. On the other hand, what is a "reasonable" method of securing guns? Is a locked gun cabinet with a glass door enough to be a barrier to your kids? Do the guns in the cabinet need a cable lock run through the trigger guards (or magazine wells)? Depending on your children's tendencies, I don't think it should be necessary to have every gun stored in an armored safe, just secured by reasonable means. On the other hand, if you think that your kid is such a high risk that you have to use a super-duty gun safe, that could be a sign that something is fundamentally wrong with the kid and might need to be in a hospital setting or such.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Mike Keenan]
#12760902
05/18/18 10:07 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 52,098
grandpa75672
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 52,098 |
[quote=Icepick]As a parent and gun owner I'll preface this by saying I have both a minor at home AND loaded guns. I have trained my child in the use of firearms as well as acceptable use of said weapons (home invasion). With that being said, what if my child decided to do what this kid did today? Am I responsible? Thats a great question right there... sad thing, back when I was in high school (late 80s), it was normal to see a students truck in the parking lot with a shotgun rack with a shotgun in it. Most of us hunted birds after school. If you did that nowadays, you would be kicked out of school and sent to prison. Different day different age... what happened to us as a society? [/quote When I was kid I had my own shotgun (unloaded) stored in my closet. Mom and Dad had !oaded pistols in their bedroom. My brother carried a pistol in his car from the time he was old enough to drive. Cant do that today. We never thought much about it. We grew up wirh guns.
It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.... W.C.Fields
I know a little about a lot of things but not a whole lot about anything....CGD
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760924
05/18/18 10:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,278
Siberman
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,278 |
I was taught at an early age that you "don't shoot anything you don't want to kill " . After the correction I received upon shooting my Dad's rooster and my brother with my first Daysi , I took that lesson to heart .
Sorry to sound like an old but kids today are being raised by their electronic devices ( video games , etc. ) and have no realization of the suffering their actions can cause .
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: soggybottom]
#12760927
05/18/18 10:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 85,919
John175☮
MACHO MAN
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MACHO MAN
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 85,919 |
I dont want a child with hormones running wild quick access to a weapon. You think that's what happens? Hormones? Kid wakes up and suddenly the hormones make them kill? The wheels are off these kids long before they kill. Over and over the signs were ignored. That's one consistent fact in these mass murders.
“Do not pray for easier lives. Pray to be stronger men.” -JFK
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760954
05/18/18 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,023
fouzman
Methuselah
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Methuselah
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,023 |
Most of us here agree that more government is never the best solution. Myself included.
However, in the case of the murder of children, at what should be a place of growth, joy and learning, I could support some tweaks to existing laws.
LE needs the teeth to follow-up on all "these leads, media, contacts and corroborative information." School administrators must report all suspicious situations without fear of reprisal. Financially or otherwise.
Once that criteria is met, the process of evaluating the student and their family begins immediately. Anyone deemed a threat goes to a mental health facility. For a minimum of 72 hours, up to 148 hours. Their stay may be extended indefinitely based upon further evaluations, observations and recommendations of facility senior staff + the courts.
Sound reasonable? Didn't think so. 'Specially after I took away all your freedoms, indefinitely.
"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out" - Zachary Troy Schrah - a young man with vision far beyond his years.
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Re: Father of school shooter...legally responsible?
[Re: Icepick]
#12760960
05/18/18 11:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,942
Notaguide
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,942 |
Imagine twice the population in America to what it is now.
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