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#12738931 - 05/01/18 08:10 PM ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report***
Fishboy Frank Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 1993
Loc: Rockwall, Texas
Not long ago I posted the survey numbers from the T.P.W.D. Ray Hubbard survey report. The numbers were way off. So I wrote to them. As promised here is the response that came back. I had asked them several questions of my own. And some questions others had posed to me. I explained that I work on the R.H.S.A. Board. As I had stated in my first post. There is no one factor involved here. It is a possible myriad of reasons/causes. Having said that here is the reply:

Hi Frank,

Thanks for your concern regarding the hybrid striped bass population in Ray Hubbard Reservoir. We are very grateful for the effort the RHSA has put into improving the hybrid population in Ray Hubbard. In regards to the report catch rates, yes it appears the catch rates have decreased. However when it comes to sampling for white bass and hybrids it can be a timing situation where we are setting our nets when the fish are moving up river or creek to spawn Also our nets are randomly set and also target catfish species. Thus we set nets in locations where you would not normally catch the whites or hybrids. Research has also shown that white bass populations are based on water flow during the spring spawning run. Generally, if water in the creeks and river is flowing, the greater spawning success the white bass will have. Prior to the last couple of years, the white bass have suffered in all DFW area lakes because of lack of rainfall and water flow.

You make good points in regards to possible overharvest of the hybrids when they are mixed in with the schools of white bass during the spawn. To get a better handle on this we would have to collaborate with the game wardens to survey anglers to determine what the misidentification rate is and go from there. It would be impossible to stop the fishing activities during the spawning run because of the general nature of fishing in public waters and the fact that the white bass are probably not at risk of overfishing in a large reservoir like Ray Hubbard. However there could definitely be over harvest of the hybrids, especially since we have limited fish to stock and rely on anglers to be able to correctly differentiate between the species. Several years ago a biologist had an idea to combine the white bass and hybrid striped bass bag limit. I think his idea was to reduce the bag limit to 10 fish, 5 of which could only be over 18 inches. It did not get passed but maybe this is something I need to get more details on.

We probably have a similar situation on Lake Lewisville. There were a lot of hybrids that were in the 10-14 inch group. You could catch them very easily and they were mixed in with the white bass. Me and my crew thought how easy it would be to over harvest the hybrids because of misidentification and because they were so easy to catch.

Thanks again for your concern and the effort you and the RHSA put into the Ray Hubbard fishery.

Raphael Brock
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
District Fisheries Biologist
6200 Hatchery Rd
Fort Worth, TX 76114
817-732-0761 - Office
817-233-5792 - Cell
817-377-4569 fax
800-792-GAME (4263) - Operation Game Thief
https://www.facebook.com/tpwdifftworth/

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#12738969 - 05/01/18 08:24 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
JCBfromTHF Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 6107
No doubt the Hybrids are getting kept when they run up the creeks regardless if they are legal or not. I am there when they run and see it all the time. Last year was really bad! Tons of Hybrids in the 14"-16" class were mixed in the run last year and probably 90% of them got kept from what I saw. You can try to educate the people out there but honestly they don't care, they keep them anyway. By comparison I didn't catch one single Hybrid during the spawn this year.

I respect what RHSA does but I think it may be a losing battle for a major urban lake like Ray Hubbard where so many people don't care if its a legal fish or not.

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#12739004 - 05/01/18 08:42 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: JCBfromTHF]
Fishboy Frank Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 1993
Loc: Rockwall, Texas
JCBfromTHF- It can get frustrating for sure. We've watched it happen out there on the lake. Boat full of people doing it at The Peanut last year. We tried to tell them. They laughed. So a buddy called it in. We told the guy it was called in along with his TX number. Never saw a Deck boat leave so fast in my life. Sadly it seems to be a rare site these days seeing T.P.W.D. out on the lake. Citizen enforcement can only go so far.

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#12739189 - 05/01/18 10:11 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
Capt. Michael Littlejohn Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lake Tawakoni, Tx
Good job guys. Keep at it...takes a while to turn the titanic around....but it will turn.

Also, I’m in favor of lowering the white bass limit from 25 to 15...and keep Hybrids at 5, state wide. thumb
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www.tawakoniguideservice.com
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#12739394 - 05/02/18 07:15 AM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
sae Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 06/12/17
Posts: 229
Loc: cedar hill tx.
I agree with the above, with the difficulty of telling the dif of hybrid, purebred,striper
wiper and their cousins I think T.P.W. should set a bag limit 10- 11 - 12? in. and a bag lm. [12-15-20]
Some people have no respect for the law, and some ( M E ? ) are not shure.

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#12739650 - 05/02/18 10:07 AM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
Fishboy Frank Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 1993
Loc: Rockwall, Texas
Agreed. To me the limits are way too liberal. They ought to take a look at the daily bag limits. There has to be a middle ground. Especially with the Hybrids which are a non-renewable resource. In that there is only the stocking of them. Zero reproduction.

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#12739777 - 05/02/18 11:12 AM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
Madatu Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 02/21/17
Posts: 140
Loc: Texas
Do people really keep 25 fish though ? that is alot of fish to clean.
_________________________
Mike Warren

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#12739859 - 05/02/18 11:54 AM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Madatu]
Capt. Michael Littlejohn Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lake Tawakoni, Tx
Originally Posted By: Madatu
Do people really keep 25 fish though ? that is alot of fish to clean.


Yes. All the time.
_________________________
Michael Littlejohn's Full-Time Lake Tawakoni Guide Service
www.tawakoniguideservice.com
Click HERE for Recent CATCH Photos!


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#12739939 - 05/02/18 12:31 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: JCBfromTHF]
Stump jumper Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7898
Loc: Rockwall
Originally Posted By: JCBfromTHF
No doubt the Hybrids are getting kept when they run up the creeks regardless if they are legal or not. I am there when they run and see it all the time. Last year was really bad! Tons of Hybrids in the 14"-16" class were mixed in the run last year and probably 90% of them got kept from what I saw. You can try to educate the people out there but honestly they don't care, they keep them anyway. By comparison I didn't catch one single Hybrid during the spawn this year.

I respect what RHSA does but I think it may be a losing battle for a major urban lake like Ray Hubbard where so many people don't care if its a legal fish or not.
In the 1990s I lived in Roanoke and fished Marshall creek every spring. One year a buddy pulled up to the house and said "quick grab your cast net". I asked why and he said there were several people down there throwing nets fro sandies. I said #1 why it is too easy can more fun to catch on a rod and reel & mainly #2 it is illegal to keep game fish caught in a cast net. People were carrying limits+ out of there every spring. Not sure how they did it because 15 spawning sandies was about my limit to carry out a mile or so.
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#12739944 - 05/02/18 12:33 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
Kayak-Hooligan Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 863
Loc: Plano TX
https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/pwd_br_t3200_0022e/biology.phtml

They set a limit for a reason. No need to lower the limit. These fish are aggressive they will feed on anything, lowering the limit will cause over population and decrease in bait population plus the major shad kill in winter. Just my 2 cent cheers
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#12740069 - 05/02/18 01:59 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
Fishboy Frank Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 1993
Loc: Rockwall, Texas
Stump Jumper. Saw the same thing once. My buddy said something to these guys. Guy pulled a knife! I said I'm out. There is no fish worth dying for. Well maybe a couple. But not sand bass!

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#12740105 - 05/02/18 02:30 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
fishin'aholic2 Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 13684
Loc: Irving, Texas
I also agree that lowering the limit will do nothing. Sandies are just like crappie and spawn prolifically. There is no way that the lower numbers are coming from fishing pressure. Just like crappie, some years class of fish is stronger than others (based on conditions) and go through fluctuations. The population always recovers.
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#12740176 - 05/02/18 03:12 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
blooper961 Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 6936
Thats like stocking neighborhood fishing ponds in urban areas.
There are no fish in the ponds but thousands are stocked.
Its because people even keep the fingerlings.
What a waste of good fish and resources.

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#12741384 - 05/03/18 10:12 AM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Capt. Michael Littlejohn]
Madatu Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 02/21/17
Posts: 140
Loc: Texas
Well yea daily you do, your a guide. How would your clients like them lowering the daily limit ?
_________________________
Mike Warren

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#12741708 - 05/03/18 12:39 PM Re: ***Update: Lake Ray Hubbard Biologist Survey Report*** [Re: Fishboy Frank]
MeatHauler Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 12/18/17
Posts: 78
This is tbe second instance I have read of a state biologist stating that fishing pressure doesn't have a significant impact on white bass populations. I don't know how people read what he said and start proposing lower limits for whites.

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