Maybe why the bass fishing is so poor on that lake compared to how it used to be, IDK. They are going to do another electro-fishing survey sometime in 2018, hopefully it will convince them to stock some laregmouth for the first time since 1985...

Not a bold statement toward you, actually a typo....what I said was that the statement was NOT pointed at you...however that is not what showed up in my comment, so my apologies, to you for my inaccuracy...I meant no offense to you at all, not my demeanor, at all.

Now on to the bold statement part...show me any research you want me to dissect, and I will, in detail dissect it and rip the credibility to shreds, if in is in fact biased reasearch, as most research is biased from the very beginning...that said, it takes many years of reviewing biased material to perform the dissection that I am capable of performing, and a few sentences or a 40 page dissertation, will not come close to explaining it to you...to your satisfaction...however, post up some �study� you think is representative of good work, or � the truth� then ask me to critique it...and I will, for you and everyone, including the authors to see...and I will support my findings.

Let's keep conspiracy theories off our press releases. We have the Bunker in our Off Topic forum set up for this type of discussion.

Fine with me, although I am not much on conspiracy theories...as I worked too long in federal service for that thinking...

Are you a biologist? Most of what you have posted is a direct contradiction to published studies on Alligator gar. I would love to see some the data from the scientific studies you have done.


Somebody want to post up these studies that were done on Falcon, Aquila or any other Lake showing that alligator gar eat enough game fish to actually impact fisherman's catch rates or the health of the fishery?

Maybe I am reading fake news because every study I can find says exactly the opposite of these claims of how terrible the alligator gar is.

You can call Randy Myers, biologist at TPWD San Antonio office.. And he will corroborate all I have said.. As a matter of fact he is at Falcon doing a continuation of the study as I type.

Everything I have stated is fact.. I have worked closely with them and they ran the study out of our shop.

Yea, some folks don�t care much for the facts, especially when it gets in the way of their opinion.

I Remember the best advice I was given on opinions...A persons opinion is usually formed by which side of the table they sit on and who they are sitting by and relying on for support.

I think he was taking issue with the statement that �most research is biased from the very beginning�. If so, I would agree with him. �Some research�, �a lot of research�, �much research�, �most research that I�ve seen�...etc. sure - but �most research� as a blanket statement? How would one even go about validating that statement?

The statement is writing checks that couldn�t possibly ever be cashed. I think that was the point.

Fair enough, point well taken. I just happen to believe statement I made, based on my past experience, accurate, so we can agree to disagree. I do appreciate your point of clarification, though, it was well received by me, and it was a thoughtful response from you.

I don't have my own facts, I have data/information which is straight from TPWD.

It is clear they do not have an impact on game fish. In fact the latest study on stomach contents was even from your Lake Falcon and they reference studies back in the 1970's having the same results.

It is clearly understood that alligator gar do not "reproduce like rats", TPWD studies show on average it takes 10 years for an alligator gar to reach sexual maturity, not 3-4 years as was posted. And while it was not the Falcon Study but the Trinity River Study showed that out of the last 47 years only 17 had conditions that allowed alligator gar reproduction.

So here are my facts straight from Texas Parks and Wildlife, everything quoted below is from TPWD not from my personal bias or opinion. I am not for or against raising the limit on gar. What I am for is real data to support whatever decision is made. Not the myths and misconceptions that are hold overs from yester year.


What Do They Eat?

One factor that feeds the gator gar�s �nuisance� reputation is the widespread belief that it eats up the game fish that license-buying anglers prefer to catch. Results of diet studies suggest that�s not the case.

Last year, TPWD biologists analyzed the stomach contents of 392 gator gar collected at Falcon Lake on the Texas/Mexico border and found carp, tilapia and shad. Game fish made up 20 percent of what the gar had consumed, with largemouth bass accounting for only 8 percent. Studies at six other Texas reservoirs, dating back to 1970, showed even smaller percentages of bass in the gars� diet, and there�s no evidence that the big fish are having a significant impact on bass populations.

Terre notes that many of the state�s best bass lakes � Falcon, Choke Canyon, Sam Rayburn and Toledo Bend � have robust populations of alligator gar.

�These fish have coexisted for eons,� he points out. �We can and do have great fishing for largemouth bass and alligator gar in the same place at the same time.�


Alligator gar live a long time and take decades to reach trophy size. A 7-foot fish could be 40 years old. The world record, caught in Mississippi in 2011, measured 8 fee 5 inches and weighed 327 pounds. TPWD researchers examined ear bones from that fish and estimated its age at 95 years.

It takes 10 years, on average, for gator gar to reach breeding age. They require certain conditions for successful spawning, and those conditions don�t come around every year.


�Results suggest that no reproduction occurred in 17 of the past 47 years,� reports Dan Daugherty, a research biologist at TPWD�s Heart of the Hills Fisheries Science Center

�Binion, G. R., Daugherty, D. J., and K. A. Bodine. 2015. Population Dynamics of Alligator Gar in Choke Canyon Reservoir, Texas: Implications for Management. Journal of the Southeastern Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies 2:57-63. ◦Population estimated at 5437 Alligator Gar (≥ 43 inches); age range 0-27 years
&#9702;Harvest estimated to be < 3% annually
&#9702;Bow anglers harvest 1 fish for every 50-100 hours of effort

I don't think I would call those numbers off the chart. That is study of Choke Canyon. 5437 Alligator Gar (&#8805; 43 inches); age range 0-27 years

I think those numbers are plenty high..

Falcon is an outlier on all the numbers.. Both on rate of growth. And Sexual maturity..

When we did the study here, TPWD's survey said our bass numbers were down 66% from the year before.. So not a lot of bass showed up in the stomach contents..

If you want to do some research, you can google up the Texas A&M study on lake Guerrero.. Where they found 50% of the fish's diet to be bass.. Very similar climate and lake conditions that we had the few years before the study..

Will be posting this weeks results on my site in the near future..

Let's keep it scientific..

Like I said.. Call Mr. Myers at TPWD in SA.. But wait till next week.. He is here at our place right now..

I am only reporting the facts..

From what I understand, the study on Choke ONLYincluded the waters from 99 bridge to Mason Point.. So it was not a complete study of the entire lake..

What the actual numbers in the lake are, are anybodys guess..

Ok I can see that it may be that those population numbers are not exact and may have only included a certain portion of the lake. I thought of it as an educated guess so to speak as it is likely based on statistical evidence.

I am not trying to be offensive, I will freely admit that I am wrong if that is demonstrated. The thing is I cannot find any studies, data, or articles published by TPWD that says alligator gar are negatively impacting sport fish populations, reproduce like rats, are over populated etc...

I have truly tried to find data that supports what you and some others have said and I simply cannot locate any.

I found some quotes from Mr. Meyer in news paper articles, but do not find where he claims that gar eating the bass caused the decline in Falcon bass fishing. Nor do I find where he claims they reproduce like rats. In fact there is a link on the new Gar site that takes you to the published TPWD studies and they seem to say quite the opposite.

Again I have no problem with raising the limit if Falcon or any other Lake needs that for biologically sound purposes. These decisions need to be based on sound data not the opinions of local anglers, guides etc....and maybe they just have not published it yet but as of right now there is no publicly available data that supports what you and other say about how bad the alligator gar is.

I will have to agree.. TPWD is slow in publishing data..

We are not looking to increase the daily bag limit on Falcon.. But the research done a few years back did lead to increasing the daily bag on Falcon to five fish per day.. Which is the way it should be.. Regs founded in science and research..

As I said, falcon is unlike any other fishery in the states..

What we are doing now is a follow up to the research that was done a few years ago.. As mandated by the original research program plans to make sure we are not taking too many..

I don't want to kill em all either.. This research is intended to keep a good healthy viable fishable population of gar in the lake.. If things change, and numbers seem to be declining, I am positive you will see a reduction in daily bag limits..

Alligator gar do figure into my bottom line.. I believe a decent number of them are good for business..

We have a lot of folks that come to catch them.. And like I said, that is good for business..