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#12668907 - 03/12/18 11:49 AM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: bigtexnick]
John175ģ Offline
Super Freak

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 67869
Loc: Realville
And there are stories of rich people's kids that die from drug overdose, car crashes, suicide and any long list of tragic deaths.

Do you think having rich parents is the key to success? Your point is pointless. Deal with the life you're dealt. That's how simple life is and life has nothing to do with being fat, short, rich, poor, stupid or smart. Life is what you make of it and if you envy others it's your choice but I can tell you it will consume you and make your life miserable. Others won't want to hang with you and especially the successful types. You'll create your own bitter cocoon.

Originally Posted By: bigtexnick
Originally Posted By: John175ģ
I don't get your point.

My point is that wealth does not equate to "merit" or "hard work" or whatever fantasy-myth buzz word you want to use. In some cases, the rich got there by pure dumb luck, favoritism/nepotism, inheritance, fraud/illegality, or were bolstered by genetic/inherent/environmental factors. In some cases, yes, there was the good ole' fashioned rags-to-riches tales of people starting from nothing and becoming millionaires by simply working hard. Unfortunately, many people see nothing but the latter cases and not enough of the former cases. Life is not as simple as you want it to be.
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#12668928 - 03/12/18 11:58 AM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Jpurdue]
lconn4 Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 9334
Loc: Cherokee County
Before we can decide if luck or genetics is more important, don't we need to decide what success really is? Is it financial, happiness, health, or a combination of them all. hmmm

Ok, I just went back and read the whole thread. Success as defined as financial success. I would say its a combination of hard work, good legal advice, and luck.


Edited by lconn4 (03/12/18 12:02 PM)
_________________________
A good rule of angling philosphy is not to interfere with another fisherman's ways of being happy, unless you want to be hated.

Zane Grey, Tales of Fishes, 1919

https://vimeo.com/73372194


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#12668938 - 03/12/18 12:03 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Jpurdue]
UGLYSHCTICK Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 03/18/15
Posts: 4863
Loc: East Texas
don't believe in luck.... only blessings from above.
_________________________



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#12668939 - 03/12/18 12:03 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Jpurdue]
butch sanders Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 26782
Loc: Arlington, Texas
in athletics
in breeding race horses & prize bulls
genetics is the major factor

Doug Flutie & a couple of others would be an exception
but if your parents don't produce a child that will weigh 300 lbs
you will not be a lineman in the NFL

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#12668942 - 03/12/18 12:05 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Arkansas10 bass]
butch sanders Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 26782
Loc: Arlington, Texas
Originally Posted By: Arkansas10 bass
Right place, right time and sense to see potential.


this is good also

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#12668957 - 03/12/18 12:13 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: bigtexnick]
921 Phoenix Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 3214
Originally Posted By: bigtexnick
Originally Posted By: John175ģ
No. You gave a horrible example.

They have their jobs and million dollar paychecks because they have intimate knowledge of the game and can "bring-it" week in and week out regardless of who is on the field. Their TV/Radio voice can be learned and trained if needed. Try not to simplify everything down to some genetic trait or you end up casting out those who you deem not genetically capable. Some people really need to stop focusing on such things and look for skills and determination to succeed. There are millions of people with great TV/Radio voices that work in jobs other than entertainment. .


Beethoven, Wagner, Mozart? They didn't have a special kind of musical intelligence?

Bobby Fischer, Kasparov, that Magnus kid? You don't think they have some inherent mental-brain advantage allowing them to play chess the way they do?

Usain Bolt, Justin Gatlin, Jesse Owens? They weren't born with something enhancing their running ability, or just ran more laps than the rest of us in high school?

And on and on and on. Face it, some people were born into or raised with an advantage.



Your points have more to do with their God given DNA and hard work, then some luck

Those people work hard to improve their God given talents. You will never here a great athletic say I was just lucky. they will say hard work and many hours in the gym is what made them great athletics.

You will never hear any one with the IQ above 5 say that it was anything more then their hard work. The left wing is who says oh no I was just lucky, even if you do not want to give credit to God for putting you in the right place. Your hard work that gets you your luck after you get the job or ,fill in the blank, it was your hard work that got you the promotion and made you successful not dumb luck. Their are lots of great athletics that never made great accomplishments because they refused to work hard or let drugs or their head get in the way. They had the great DNA just not the heart and soul to make good on their DNA. Darrel Strawberry,Dwight Gooden,Lawrence Phillips, Marcus Dupree was just a very few people with the DNA to make great things but luck or their own inability to work hard and make good decisions destroyed their careers. no such thing as dumb luck even the original poster didn't have luck he had good taste to date the girl that lead him to a great career, yes may not have been a life long love but the choice to date the young lady led him to great things. We make choices in life and those decisions have consequences both good and bad, his choice of dating this lady had good consequences. I am sure he his very grateful for what he has not from that decisions. Luck didn't get him to move a decision did. I am sure he will disagree with me since its his post but this just goes to show we can both have different opinion of same decision.

DNA is from decisions made by their parents to get together that made his DNA from theirs not dumb luck and their parents got theirs from their parents decisions and so forth.

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#12668960 - 03/12/18 12:14 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Jpurdue]
CrankAddict Offline
The Panther

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 14811
Loc: Boyd America
I think that mindset and attitude have a lot more to do with success than luck does. The more I learn about the law of attraction and the power of the mind the less I believe in luck.

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#12669089 - 03/12/18 01:37 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: bigtexnick]
Duck_Hunter Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 03/24/14
Posts: 14665
Loc: North Texas
Originally Posted By: bigtexnick
An excellent example are sports broadcasters. Chris Berman, Bob Costas, Chris Collinsworth, and on and on. Do these folks really have some unique, special "earned" talent than the rest of us? Or do they just happen to have vocal chords set up in such a way that their voices have a louder and more unique pitch? These folks make millions because of this.


Sports broadcasters have to be lucky?

Yes, they have talent and a good voice helps (Berman and Collinsworth do not have great broadcasting voices; Jim Nantz, Howard Cosell and Dan Patrick do), but a lot of those guys (play by play, not former athlete analysts like Collinsworth, Aikman and Romo) have journalism or broadcast degrees, started out working locally 35 years ago and had to grind it out and work there way up.

And sports broadcasting (live games, not highlights like Berman is known for) is not easy. Is it easy for what they get paid? Thatís a different conversation, but it isnít easy and spending that much time on live TV or radio has many potential pitfalls. One mistake (Jimmy the Greek) and youíre career is over.

I think youíre conflating luck with people going towards something theyíre interested in and have talent for and working their way up the ladder.
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#12669154 - 03/12/18 02:16 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Jpurdue]
blooper961 Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 6972
Its not what you know its who you know

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#12669170 - 03/12/18 02:22 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: blooper961]
John175ģ Offline
Super Freak

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 67869
Loc: Realville
Originally Posted By: blooper961
Its not what you know its who you know


Can't deny that. You have to make the right choices to meet those who you need to know.

But who you know is still not enough or everyone they know would be rich.

Good thing Tiger Woods knew his Dad. Was Tiger lucky or worked his butt off?

He's 6'1" and 185 soaking wet. Is that the best genetics to make a half billion bucks playing golf?
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#12669202 - 03/12/18 02:53 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Jpurdue]
Hancock Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 16260
Loc: Estonia
I felt lucky until I read through this

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#12669246 - 03/12/18 03:24 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Duck_Hunter]
joebass2 Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 4151
Loc: Lewisville, texas
Originally Posted By: Duck_Hunter
Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: Mark Perry
If someone truly does not think hard work and determination are not keys to success then so be it. I have seen far too much firsthand that contradicts that study. Hard work, determination, and the power of chasing a dream cannot be measured by a computer.


What percentages of business start ups fail? Were those people not hard working dream chasers? I'm not sharing this study to discourage anyone. And by all means, I fully believe you should work hard. In terms of things you can control, there is zero doubt in my mind it matters a great deal. That said, the study shows the things you can't control matter more.

In all probability we would have never heard the name Bill Gates if he hadn't been born exactly when and where he was. He was born right at the start of the computer age and within a few blocks of one of two super computers that were open to public access at the time. This access sparked his interest in code. No doubt he's a hard worker, but if he was born in Indiana he would not have founded Microsoft.


Some might say Bill Gates benefited from fate, destiny or chance and hard work. Life isnít fair, being in the right place at the right time is huge, knowing the right people can help, but it still takes hard work for the vast majority of the people that are successful.

Youíre right, Gates benefited from the time he was born and growing up down the street from a place that had super computers open to the public and needed people to code. He still put in countless hours learning to code and then applying that learned knowledge to building an empire.

I don't consider that aspect of his life (being born at the right time and location) luck. I think he had some luck along the way, but it was taking some chances as he built Microsoft and the ball bounced his way.

I agree with Jacob, though. How did the study define luck? Without a definition (and depending on the definition) itís hard to agree with the studyís findings.


Didn't hurt that Bill Gate's Dad was a partner in the largest law firm in Seattle. Kinda puts a damper on the whole 'garage' story.

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#12669248 - 03/12/18 03:26 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Jpurdue]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 7081
Loc: texas
I believe that luck/chance/fate/timing etc. has more to do with it than the person. I know too many amazing people that worked their fingers to the bone all their life and never obtained what people would consider wealth or "financial success".

I know many successful people who are where they are by nothing more than chance.

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#12669265 - 03/12/18 03:35 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Jpurdue]
Scagnetti Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 27963
Loc: Dallas
This subject has been studied to death

First off Iíll define success as amassing wealth and I donít mean a 4 BR, 3 BA house in Frisco with a swimming pool, two high dollar foreign sedans in the garage and a $2 million 401(k)

I mean real wealth

By far, the profile of real wealth comes from those who were to the manor born. They have old money, socialize with others with old money, go to the same old money schools and saving the best for last, marry into old money. Itís very incestuous and itís a galaxy the nouveau riche rarely experience.

But what about the American Dream you say, and I donít mean Dusty Rhodes. Get an education, work hard, make sacrifices to build a career, take on immense challenges to improve yourself, blah, blah, blah and you can become rich and famous.

Not bloody likely! Oh it happens alright but for everyone that makes it, thereís a slew of them who are laying in a ditch with a javelin through them. And this is further compounded by some peopleís idea of what ďhardĒ work really is.
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#12669276 - 03/12/18 03:39 PM Re: The role of luck in success and failure [Re: Scagnetti]
Davedave Online   content
Bigfoot Seeker

Registered: 07/02/12
Posts: 18444
Loc: Grapevine, TX
Originally Posted By: Scagnetti
This subject has been studied to death

First off Iíll define success as amassing wealth and I donít mean a 4 BR, 3 BA house in Frisco with a swimming pool, two high dollar foreign sedans in the garage and a $2 million 401(k)

I mean real wealth

By far, the profile of real wealth comes from those who were to the manor born. They have old money, socialize with others with old money, go to the same old money schools and saving the best for last, marry into old money. Itís very incestuous and itís a galaxy the nouveau riche rarely experience.

But what about the American Dream you say, and I donít mean Dusty Rhodes. Get an education, work hard, make sacrifices to build a career, take on immense challenges to improve yourself, blah, blah, blah and you can become rich and famous.

Not bloody likely! Oh it happens alright but for everyone that makes it, thereís a slew of them who are laying in a ditch with a javelin through them. And this is further compounded by some peopleís idea of what ďhardĒ work really is.

Iím out. I donít have a pool, and I have a couple of Fords and a Toyota. Maybe next year.

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