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#12634364 - 02/18/18 04:38 PM Llano Bug Help
MassAction Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/22/16
Posts: 150
I'm headed to the hill country and wanted to add some Llano Bugs to my box.

There are a couple of YouTube videos that show a step by step, but each one has comments from Kevin Hutchinson, the man himself, describing one particular step in the process that I can't conceptualize and translate into tying the pattern.



Quote:
After you have formed the body and have folded the foam over and are ready to tie in the deer hair and rubber legs (they should be tied in before you fold the foam over to form the head) it is critical to flatten a "pad" between the body and the eye of the hook. This will allow the legs to be tied in with a gap in the middle of them, keeping them from fouling on the hook. This also gives you a nice flat spot to tie in your deer hair. This is a mistake that I have seen in every YouTube version of my fly.


Specifically, I can't figure out this flattened pad or how to tie in the rubber legs. If anyone can shed some light on this with pictures or a better description I'd really appreciate it. It's probably not a huge deal, but I figure if I'm going to take the time to tie these up, I'd rather do it right.

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#12634416 - 02/18/18 05:37 PM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
kaboboom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 167
Watched the vid. He ties in the hair, folds it back, cinches it down, then the ties in the rubber legs. Seems pretty straight forward, but I can see how it could be done differently like the text where you criss-cross the legs over the tied in hair before the fold and that could (I guess) make them less likely to wrap the hook since they'd be extended off the foam rather than underneath it. Never made any, but have the stuff, so I'll give it a try both ways.


Edited by kaboboom (02/18/18 05:39 PM)

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#12634426 - 02/18/18 05:46 PM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
Smurfs Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 3418
Loc: Fort Worth
send Pearow a PM, he will help
_________________________


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#12634445 - 02/18/18 06:04 PM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
MassAction Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/22/16
Posts: 150
Thanks guys, a more careful google search yielded a result, basically the tie in point for the rubber legs should compress the foam completely and then be dubbed over again to form a thorax.



I probably wasn't clear in my first post but the YouTube vid I posted was wrong and skips this step which Kevin says is important to keep the hook from fouling and help the fly ride higher.

This is the best step by step I've found on the fly. I'll try tying a couple again tonight and will post the results.

http://theflyriverturtle.blogspot.com/2013/11/llano-bug.html

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#12634481 - 02/18/18 06:34 PM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
kaboboom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 167
Tried it similar...tied in the legs before the hair...nothing that wide and separated (and criss-crossed) but I'm doing a size 10.Now the front legs come out at the base of the "head, and the back legs from under the top wing/fold. Look forward to yours....please say what size/style hook. Thanks.


Edited by kaboboom (02/18/18 06:38 PM)

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#12634865 - 02/18/18 11:33 PM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
MassAction Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/22/16
Posts: 150
I thought this would be a simple tie, but as is often the case, sometimes the simplest things can be the most difficult. Tied these on a size 8 Gamakatsu SL-45. Kevin recommends a TMC 200r which is curved, but I had to work with what I had on hand.

First attempt, way over dubbed the "thorax." The deer hair spun on me (funny how that happens when you don't want it to). My proportions with the foam are terrible. I was happy with the way the legs tied in.




Second attempt, proportions and dubbing were way better. Can actually tell it's supposed to be a thorax. Wing was way too sparse and the legs went haywire on me.




Just realized I should be tying in the foam to the bend of the hook and pulling the foam tight from there rather than folding it over.

Good learning experience so far. I will gladly accept all tips and criticisms. One way or another I'll get this pattern down.


Edited by MassAction (02/19/18 12:26 AM)

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#12634926 - 02/19/18 05:09 AM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
kaboboom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 167
Links and pics are such a problem for me here or I'd paste stuff

Found a site that had the creator's name and picture, so looks authentic. He does seem to fold the foam loosely (not pull it tight) and the TMC 200R size 6 is curved and 3X long to give him room. Not sure about dubbing with antron...I do it for Gary LaFontaine's Sparkle caddis patterns, but it's tricky to prep and you need sticky dubbing wax, so the cactus chenille from your first vid seems like a good substitute. I tied one on a longer hook (mustad 79560 sz 8) probably 4X and it looks more like the fly I viewed on that site. I can tell you want to duplicate the original, but for me, this is a foam/rubberlegs style that should be fast and easy, and substitutions allowed. An example: the deer hair wing is out of the water, so it's bugginess is for the fisherman...not the fish. If the only deer hair you have spins too readily, and that's a problem, substitute elk or calf's tail. You'd still be honoring the inventor by using his techniques and style, in my opinion.And what you've already made will certainly float and catch fish. Good work.


Edited by kaboboom (02/19/18 05:22 AM)

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#12635360 - 02/19/18 10:51 AM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
joabsher Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas
The Llano Bug is one of my favorite flies, I tie them up all the time. The biggest bass I've caught on my 2wt was on one of these flies so it holds a special place in my mind.

Here are a couple suggestions I have.

1. Get a longer shank hook. You can get away with a shorter one, but when you're learning it helps so much to figure out proportions better with something closer to a TMC 200R.

2. Cut your foam thinner. It makes it a lot easier to work with and flatten for the tie in spot for the hair.

3. Use Antron Dubbing for the thorax. It does a much better job than chenille of repelling water, so the fly will float higher and longer with it. I really don't think its tough to work with.

4. Use a hair stacker for the deer hair wing. I also like to use elk hair.

I'm sure there are other tips, and these are just suggestions. I tie these guys pretty small too, usually size 10, which is what I caught that big bass on. Post more pics as you're working on it and let me know if you have any other questions or anything. I'm going to be tying a bunch of these tonight.



http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/pics...hreadutc140yell - this pic wouldn't imbed for whatever reason but it's a good one.
_________________________
Early on I decided that fishing would be my way of looking at the world. First it taught me to look at rivers. Lately is has been teaching me how to look at people, myself included.
- Thomas McGuane

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#12635391 - 02/19/18 11:05 AM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
joabsher Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas

_________________________
Early on I decided that fishing would be my way of looking at the world. First it taught me to look at rivers. Lately is has been teaching me how to look at people, myself included.
- Thomas McGuane

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#12635405 - 02/19/18 11:12 AM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: joabsher]
kaboboom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 167
My bad on the antron dubbing. The stuff I use comes as a cord, has to be chopped...different product. This is a difficult tie...making the bulb.

Sparkle emerger


Edited by kaboboom (02/19/18 11:23 AM)

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#12635635 - 02/19/18 12:41 PM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
joabsher Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas
Man that tie does look tricky. Love Tim Flagler's videos though. When he ties in the yellow/brown Antron as a dubbing noodle in the video, that's what you want on the thorax of the Llano Bug, only thicker. Also, you are right about this fly being one where substitutions are easy. As long as it floats it should work. I sometimes will add a tail and/or change up the colors. Yellow has always been my favorite, especially if you are actually fishing it on the Llano, but I have done tan, green, orange, etc. Found a few more pics:




_________________________
Early on I decided that fishing would be my way of looking at the world. First it taught me to look at rivers. Lately is has been teaching me how to look at people, myself included.
- Thomas McGuane

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#12636590 - 02/19/18 08:25 PM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
joabsher Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas




First one of the night.
_________________________
Early on I decided that fishing would be my way of looking at the world. First it taught me to look at rivers. Lately is has been teaching me how to look at people, myself included.
- Thomas McGuane

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#12636769 - 02/19/18 09:53 PM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
MassAction Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/22/16
Posts: 150
Big thanks for all the help and hints guys. I sat back down at the vice after reading through this and things are getting much better. Still not perfect, but definitely getting closer. Used a longer shank hook and thinner foam and it definitely helped quite a bit. I like the underside profile much better.





The deer hair is still spinning on me. I need to pick up some elk and antron dubbing to make it a bit more full, but the finished product is looking far better than what I did yesterday.

Kaboom, I definitely understand the personal take on a fly and using what works, but I'm a bit of a type A personality (as I imagine most fly tiers and fisherman are) so I'd like to get it as close to the original as I can before subbing things out. I've already taken my initial attempts out and had some solid success with the bluegill, so even if they're not beautiful works of art, I'll be fishing them hard regardless.

Thanks again for all your help guys!

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#12636882 - 02/20/18 04:27 AM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
kaboboom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 167
Deer hair patches can be put in two categories depending on where they are taken from the deer. Some are best for spinning...more hollow fibers, and others are for wings because they don't spin as much. I was taught how to tell the difference before buying but I don't remember. I think it's about the length of the tips before they lose their color. I see both you guys are dubbing twice...I haven't been...still using chenille. But I'm having problems getting the forward legs to point forward, and joabsher does that nicely here. I need to spend more effort on the underside of the head with this in mind. Great stuff.

Although not aligned with the original, I like this right now as a foam spider upgrade...sz 10/12 with half the legs, but I'm not targeting bass...yet. I'll still tie some larger like these...those should work well as a top floating fly trailing an unweight fly/jig for crappie. Thanks for sharing.

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#12637338 - 02/20/18 10:30 AM Re: Llano Bug Help [Re: MassAction]
joabsher Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas
I learned how to work with deer hair tying clousers. Being able to keep the clump where you are tying in contained was tough at first, but that practice carried over for tying in the wing of the Llano Bug. I think the amount of hair you are using is good but maybe shorten it up a bit and hold onto all that hair with your left hand while you're tying with your right to keep it all in place. Also, cut the hair to length before tying it in so you don't have to worry about cutting off the butt ends.

As for the legs, I have always had trouble getting them to do what I want them to on any fly. I have learned that thread tension is really important, like when working with deer hair. If you're pulling down really hard on the rubber leg, it'll really crease it and cause it to make a 'V'. But if you apply less tension when tying it in it will lay flatter and point in the direction you are laying it, if that makes sense. The picture posted by MassAction above with the side shot of the legs tied in is a good reference pic.
_________________________
Early on I decided that fishing would be my way of looking at the world. First it taught me to look at rivers. Lately is has been teaching me how to look at people, myself included.
- Thomas McGuane

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