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PSA for gun owners
#12629899
02/15/18 09:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,532
Uncle Zeek
OP
aka "Dad"
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OP
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,532 |
This is my last semester of law school, and I'm working in the law clinic. Have been seeing some really interesting matters happening with the clients there. Now, I can't discuss confidential matters, but I can share some facts that might be helpful for guys here.
In a case involving stolen firearms, the true owner reported them stolen to police along with a list of serial numbers. The police located the firearms at places like pawn shops, and were able to return them to the true owner with no other documentation than the owners original complaint.
What I found intriguing was that a person might own firearms with no documentation (like a private party purchase), and therefore have no proof that it's actually his own firearm. The police in this instance accepted the owners original statement--made prior to locating the firearms!--as adequate evidence of ownership.
I can't help but think that it might be a good idea to have some sort of documentation of one's firearms, including serial numbers, to provide to police in the event that they are stolen. I'm preparing something analogous to an affidavit for myself that I'll have notarized (to prove the date that it was done), just in case ...
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12629908
02/15/18 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,942
Notaguide
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,942 |
You need to work on your law talk. I understood everything you said
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12629909
02/15/18 09:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 9,446
SgtDag
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 9,446 |
"If you're going through hell keep going." Winston Churchill I open mouth kiss my sisters
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12629917
02/15/18 09:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,280
I'm The Dude
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,280 |
I keep a binder with pictures, descriptions, calibers and serial numbers of all my guns. A little piece of mind if stolen or some other crazy circumstance were to happen... Father in law had done the same with his and I thought it was a great idea.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: I'm The Dude]
#12629922
02/15/18 09:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,532
Uncle Zeek
OP
aka "Dad"
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OP
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,532 |
I keep a binder with pictures, descriptions, calibers and serial numbers of all my guns. A little piece of mind if stolen or some other crazy circumstance were to happen... Father in law had done the same with his and I thought it was a great idea. That's better than my idea. Thank you!
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: I'm The Dude]
#12629926
02/15/18 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 119,532
TexDawg
Top Dawg
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Top Dawg
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 119,532 |
I keep a binder with pictures, descriptions, calibers and serial numbers of all my guns. A little piece of mind if stolen or some other crazy circumstance were to happen... Father in law had done the same with his and I thought it was a great idea. Same, and i have all that info stored on a stick drive as well
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12629927
02/15/18 09:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,257
Hookem
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,257 |
Entire home inventory spreadsheet.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12629931
02/15/18 09:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,619
Gourdbuster
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,619 |
I use an XL spreadsheet with dates and locations of purchase, previous owner. If I sell one I mark that line in red and put the date and name of purchaser along with their contact info.
“You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. We're the all singing, all dancing [censored] of the world.”
-Chuck Palahniuk
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: TexDawg]
#12629935
02/15/18 09:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 25,747
elcoyote, esq.
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 25,747 |
I keep a binder with pictures, descriptions, calibers and serial numbers of all my guns. A little piece of mind if stolen or some other crazy circumstance were to happen... Father in law had done the same with his and I thought it was a great idea. Same, and i have all that info stored on a stick drive as well IF I owned guns, which I don't, because I like being alive and don't want to be killed, I would have an inventory on a thumb drive, as well as that info stored on several different emails, filed in a folder for redundancy.
Team wolfs I had to perform. It took a minute to get it all in my mouth and another five to swallow it all.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12629940
02/15/18 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,995
GarySHO
Ice Ice Baby
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Ice Ice Baby
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,995 |
Everyone has a good camera on their phone nowdays, be good to take pictures of them and closups of S/N.
A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user- Theodore Roosevelt Broken Bow Lake Fishing Guide 2020 Caymas CX 20 PRO and 250 SHO
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12629954
02/15/18 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,006
fouzman
Methuselah
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Methuselah
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,006 |
May not be that simple depending on where you live. I had five rifles stolen in 2014. Had all the serial numbers, scopes, descriptions right down to the Boyt cases they were in. I went to our local substation, filed the report, and gave them a copy of everything. Sat there and watched the officer enter the info into the database. 2 years later, an individual contacted me and said he had seen one of the guns on my list at a pawn shop in N Houston. I called HPD who told me to go to the pawn shop, wait outside, and dial their non-emergency number for an officer when I arrived. The officer showed up, we went inside, and I indentified my rifle. He put a tag on it and told the pawn shop manager to take it off the shelf, put it in their safe, and a detective would be by to speak with him. I spoke to the detective the next day and he was kind enough to go right to the pawn shop and get my rifle. Even cleaned it up for me However, I had to wait a couple more months for a property hearing before a Harris County Judge. The judge ruled that the gun was mine and ordered it returned. I then had to go to another part of town, to HPD's property room, and retrieve my rifle. It was a pita, but I'm tankful to have the most expensive of the five back in my possession. I had all the 411 AND receipts for all these guns, but HPD still wouldn't return it without a hearing. Could have been because of the rifle's value, I'm not sure. But I'll guarantee you had I not had such detailed proof the gun was mine, I don't think Harris County would have ruled in my favor.
"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out" - Zachary Troy Schrah - a young man with vision far beyond his years.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: elcoyote, esq.]
#12629958
02/15/18 10:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 39,259
Dan90210 ☮
Jr Deputy Dan
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Jr Deputy Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 39,259 |
I keep a binder with pictures, descriptions, calibers and serial numbers of all my guns. A little piece of mind if stolen or some other crazy circumstance were to happen... Father in law had done the same with his and I thought it was a great idea. Same, and i have all that info stored on a stick drive as well IF I owned guns, which I don't, because I like being alive and don't want to be killed, I would have an inventory on a thumb drive, as well as that info stored on several different emails, filed in a folder for redundancy. This is correct. Keep that info in several places. Electronic and paper and not WITH the weapons or other property. To be super safe keep copies of that info in a place that's not where the property is. A friend or relatives house. Serial numbers are critical. Pictures of you with the property are great too. So I am told. If you dont have that odds are slim you get your property back. Near zero if you do not have the serial numbers.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12629962
02/15/18 10:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,020
von rage
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,020 |
It only takes a couple of hours but I took pictures of everything that we own in case of fire or theft. Put them on a cd which I keep at the office. You will never be able to remember everything you have.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Hookem]
#12629973
02/15/18 10:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,677
uncle_bagster
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,677 |
Entire home inventory spreadsheet. Every time a guy buys something of value, he ought to do this. Copy the serial#, take a photo, and file away the sales receipt. That way if you get robbed, the insurance man is less likely to chizzel you.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Notaguide]
#12629974
02/15/18 10:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,952
Pintail711
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,952 |
You need to work on your law talk. I understood everything you said Lol. Yep.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12630025
02/15/18 10:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 27,382
Der Vorsteher
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 27,382 |
It would help if you put a little flag sticker of your country of origin as well. Make the process faster.
Team Wolfs
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Hookem]
#12630026
02/15/18 10:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,627
PowerLizard
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,627 |
Entire home inventory spreadsheet. You don't really need a spreadsheet. Just take a picture of the item and then a close up of the serial number. Move a copy of the pictures from your phone to thumb drive or e-mail them to yourself so they are on your phone and somewhere else. Take a picture of everything that has a serial number: guns, bicycles, lawnmowers, TVs, laptops.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Der Vorsteher]
#12630029
02/15/18 10:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 27,382
Der Vorsteher
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 27,382 |
It would help if you put a little flag sticker of your country of origin as well. Make the process faster. That way if it is bought with Bitcoin.
Team Wolfs
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12630072
02/15/18 11:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 24,723
outfishdya
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 24,723 |
Before I sold all my guns to Bob at the gun show, I took an nventory with pics and serial numbers. I still have it here somewhere.
Woke up this morning Got yourself a gun....
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12630230
02/16/18 01:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 17,336
Jacob
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 17,336 |
I keep all my Gun serial numbers in my phone/email.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12630243
02/16/18 01:28 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,018
Spiderman
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,018 |
Thumb drive in a safety deposit box.
Fire could destroy everything, unless it is stored on the cloud.
The Truth is six of the seven Dwarfs are not Happy!
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: fouzman]
#12630244
02/16/18 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,612
Jim Ford
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,612 |
May not be that simple depending on where you live. I had five rifles stolen in 2014. Had all the serial numbers, scopes, descriptions right down to the Boyt cases they were in. I went to our local substation, filed the report, and gave them a copy of everything. Sat there and watched the officer enter the info into the database. 2 years later, an individual contacted me and said he had seen one of the guns on my list at a pawn shop in N Houston. I called HPD who told me to go to the pawn shop, wait outside, and dial their non-emergency number for an officer when I arrived. The officer showed up, we went inside, and I indentified my rifle. He put a tag on it and told the pawn shop manager to take it off the shelf, put it in their safe, and a detective would be by to speak with him. I spoke to the detective the next day and he was kind enough to go right to the pawn shop and get my rifle. Even cleaned it up for me However, I had to wait a couple more months for a property hearing before a Harris County Judge. The judge ruled that the gun was mine and ordered it returned. I then had to go to another part of town, to HPD's property room, and retrieve my rifle. It was a pita, but I'm tankful to have the most expensive of the five back in my possession. I had all the 411 AND receipts for all these guns, but HPD still wouldn't return it without a hearing. Could have been because of the rifle's value, I'm not sure. But I'll guarantee you had I not had such detailed proof the gun was mine, I don't think Harris County would have ruled in my favor. fouz, if you'll check chapter 47 (I think; at my age memory is a dangerous thing) of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, you'll see that hearing was mandated by law. Funny thing; every time I recover stolen property at a pawn shop they insist on a property hearing, but they never show up......... an aggravating waste of time for everyone involved.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: fouzman]
#12630292
02/16/18 01:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 32,007
JustWingem
Gentleman Jack
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Gentleman Jack
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 32,007 |
May not be that simple depending on where you live. I had five rifles stolen in 2014. Had all the serial numbers, scopes, descriptions right down to the Boyt cases they were in. I went to our local substation, filed the report, and gave them a copy of everything. Sat there and watched the officer enter the info into the database. 2 years later, an individual contacted me and said he had seen one of the guns on my list at a pawn shop in N Houston. I called HPD who told me to go to the pawn shop, wait outside, and dial their non-emergency number for an officer when I arrived. The officer showed up, we went inside, and I indentified my rifle. He put a tag on it and told the pawn shop manager to take it off the shelf, put it in their safe, and a detective would be by to speak with him. I spoke to the detective the next day and he was kind enough to go right to the pawn shop and get my rifle. Even cleaned it up for me However, I had to wait a couple more months for a property hearing before a Harris County Judge. The judge ruled that the gun was mine and ordered it returned. I then had to go to another part of town, to HPD's property room, and retrieve my rifle. It was a pita, but I'm tankful to have the most expensive of the five back in my possession. I had all the 411 AND receipts for all these guns, but HPD still wouldn't return it without a hearing. Could have been because of the rifle's value, I'm not sure. But I'll guarantee you had I not had such detailed proof the gun was mine, I don't think Harris County would have ruled in my favor. Wasnt due to value but bureaucracy. Father (being DPD) had a off duty snub nose revolver stolen out of his truck. Had to jump through the same hoops 20 years ago.
DON'T GET CONFUSED BETWEEN MY PERSONALITY AND MY ATTITUDE. MY PERSONALITY IS WHO I AM...MY ATTITUDE DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ARE
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: I'm The Dude]
#12630307
02/16/18 02:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,994
lakeforkfisherman
Elliptical Mechanic
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Elliptical Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,994 |
I keep a binder with pictures, descriptions, calibers and serial numbers of all my guns. A little piece of mind if stolen or some other crazy circumstance were to happen... Father in law had done the same with his and I thought it was a great idea. I do this. Also, when Ive sold a firearm, there are 2 original bills of sale exactly alike signed by both parties. No questioning the who what and when of gun ownership.
LET’S GO BRANDON!!!
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12630319
02/16/18 02:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,029
dobbin
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,029 |
I have serial numbers stored in the cloud on my I phone, I also remove the butt plate and put my name and address and dl number under it and screw it back to the stock.
Champion Jigs
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12630408
02/16/18 02:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 38,822
KingwoodCat
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 38,822 |
This is my last semester of law school, and I'm working in the law clinic. Have been seeing some really interesting matters happening with the clients there. Now, I can't discuss confidential matters, but I can share some facts that might be helpful for guys here.
In a case involving stolen firearms, the true owner reported them stolen to police along with a list of serial numbers. The police located the firearms at places like pawn shops, and were able to return them to the true owner with no other documentation than the owners original complaint.
What I found intriguing was that a person might own firearms with no documentation (like a private party purchase), and therefore have no proof that it's actually his own firearm. The police in this instance accepted the owners original statement--made prior to locating the firearms!--as adequate evidence of ownership.
I can't help but think that it might be a good idea to have some sort of documentation of one's firearms, including serial numbers, to provide to police in the event that they are stolen. I'm preparing something analogous to an affidavit for myself that I'll have notarized (to prove the date that it was done), just in case ... Or...take pictures of the firearm including the serial number. I have them on all my firearms, including private party purchases.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a look at the American Indian".
Henry Ford
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12630428
02/16/18 03:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,900
SheldonS
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,900 |
I thought pawn shops were supposed to check if a gun was stolen.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: SheldonS]
#12630559
02/16/18 05:00 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 32,007
JustWingem
Gentleman Jack
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Gentleman Jack
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 32,007 |
I thought pawn shops were supposed to check if a gun was stolen. Most due but they are not in the system as quickly as sold so.....
DON'T GET CONFUSED BETWEEN MY PERSONALITY AND MY ATTITUDE. MY PERSONALITY IS WHO I AM...MY ATTITUDE DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ARE
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12630563
02/16/18 05:07 AM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 19,764
Bee'z
honey boo boo
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honey boo boo
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 19,764 |
Spread sheet and photos on 4 drives. Only one at the house. This is good practice to go by.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: SheldonS]
#12631310
02/16/18 05:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,006
fouzman
Methuselah
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Methuselah
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,006 |
I thought pawn shops were supposed to check if a gun was stolen. What if the pawn shop transposes a letter or number in the serial number? Voila, no hit from TCIC/NCIC. Happens all the time. At least that's what a detective told me.
"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out" - Zachary Troy Schrah - a young man with vision far beyond his years.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12631343
02/16/18 05:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,287
texomaspecial
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,287 |
email the info and pictures to yourself. It will be in internet land forever!
Can I get a hot tub
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12631630
02/16/18 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 50,829
Trickster
Super Freak
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Super Freak
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 50,829 |
I never liked this word. analogous
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12631710
02/16/18 09:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,388
bassfishinglawyer
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,388 |
I'm preparing something analogous to an affidavit for myself that I'll have notarized (to prove the date that it was done), just in case ... So a self-serving affidavit, huh? Based on the way that case was handled, if I made a claim to the guns in your safe and had the serial numbers, would I get them? I'm sure they did the right thing, but it does make you wonder. In that instance, even having a list with all of of your guns do not prove you did not steal them (or, even with bills of sale, that your sellers did not steal them). Of course this is true of any personal property, not just guns.
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Re: PSA for gun owners
[Re: bassfishinglawyer]
#12632040
02/17/18 01:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,532
Uncle Zeek
OP
aka "Dad"
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OP
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,532 |
I'm preparing something analogous to an affidavit for myself that I'll have notarized (to prove the date that it was done), just in case ... So a self-serving affidavit, huh? Based on the way that case was handled, if I made a claim to the guns in your safe and had the serial numbers, would I get them? I'm sure they did the right thing, but it does make you wonder. In that instance, even having a list with all of of your guns do not prove you did not steal them (or, even with bills of sale, that your sellers did not steal them). Of course this is true of any personal property, not just guns. Yeah, I figure the notary will simply be proof of the date the list was compiled. Based on what I saw, the police were concerned about the timing/sequence of events. Having the guns turn up in pawn shops is likely a different burden of proof than having them secured in one's own home. But yeah, I'm trying to figure out an effective way to document proof of true ownership for a collection accumulated over a lifetime.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Moderated by banker-always fishing, chickenman, Derek 🐝, Duck_Hunter, Fish Killer, J-2, Jacob, Jons3825, JustWingem, Nocona Brian, Toon-Troller, Uncle Zeek, Weekender1
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