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#12594925 - 01/25/18 09:10 AM Hooks
RODS454 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 1153
Loc: Midlothian
I have a question for you tying guys. I got some pill jig heads w/ #2 bronze sickle hook. I powder coated the heads and then cooked them at 350 for 30 minutes. That is the time and temp on the container. I've broken the tip section on 4 of them now. Have any of you guys experienced this? I'm thinking the heating tempered the hook causing it to be brittle, 3 of the breaks were on hang ups and the last one was on a big fish. On hang ups the hook will usually bend. I use 15 lb Power Pro line. Thanks for any input.
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#12594944 - 01/25/18 09:28 AM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
karstopo Online   content
Angler

Registered: 05/22/16
Posts: 459
Loc: Brazoria County
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy)

I couldn't find anything on a quick search specific to hooks, but carbon steel properties are altered at 350 F.

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#12594986 - 01/25/18 09:56 AM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
RODS454 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 1153
Loc: Midlothian
Thanks karstopo, Maybe I need to lower my temp a bit. Those toaster oven temp controls are prolly not very accurate. LOL.
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#12595037 - 01/25/18 10:28 AM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
gazn357 Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 119
Loc: Austin, TX
After several years of baking not sure if temp would affect hooks. I do 325 for 15~20 minutes. Temp is measure with Digital Fluke thermometer with probe at head height. There is a lot of people baking at 350. Would think others would have seen this before if that is the cause.

I would think temp would actually help tempering on hook. I even left oven on once for over 2 hours and say no effect to paint or hooks.

Only once have I had customers complain of hooks breaking and they all came from a supplier I had not used before. They were spin cast heads and not poured. No issue with other hooks painted and baked along with them.

Bad hooks?



Edited by gazn357 (01/25/18 10:30 AM)
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#12595197 - 01/25/18 12:05 PM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
RODS454 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 1153
Loc: Midlothian
Thanks for the reply gazn357. I'm gonna tie some plain, no powder coat, and see what happens.
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"I'd rather be fishing!"





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#12595428 - 01/25/18 02:52 PM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
REDGUN Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 818
Loc: DFW Metromess
+1, on baking not being your issue.

Before you tie your jigs, try bending some (or ALL) of the hooks and see if they bend or break. If they were mine, I would rather find the bad ones BEFORE I tied up the jig OR had a good fish on it.

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#12595477 - 01/25/18 03:35 PM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
RODS454 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 1153
Loc: Midlothian
You are right. It made me sick losing that fish yesterday!
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#12595554 - 01/25/18 04:30 PM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
machinist Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1792
Loc: Lake Graham, Lot 30
I promise you that 5 minutes is long enough to bake any jig. As an example try a couple at 350 for 5 minutes and see how hard they are. You will lose it before it chips. You are wasting time baking jigs that long.
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99 BassCat Jag w/225 Merc Optimax

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#12595915 - 01/25/18 09:28 PM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
RODS454 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 1153
Loc: Midlothian
Thanks machinist, I'll do that next time.
_________________________
"I'd rather be fishing!"





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#12597571 - 01/27/18 08:06 AM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
Skip_48 Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 5478
Loc: Toledo Bend in Texas
I cure mine at between 390 and 400 degrees and have for over 12 years and never found the heatwave g for paint cure doing anything to my hooks! However I do know there have been a few time over this same amount of time that the Sickle hooks came ready to break! I had some that were so bad that they broke just from my tying it, during wraps! These also happen to be the bronze hooks and maybe you got hold of some older heads from one of the several times they imported really bad hook!

I spoke to CSI a number of times the last 12 years and they put out different time and temps a few times, but always came back to all of there colors except for the Pearl, could be done at 392-400 degrees for 15 min. Now the Pearl is 325 for 20 min! Also have some Chrome from several different businesses and most call for that to be 20 min fat 400!

Skip
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Tying Materials, Chenille and Hackle
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#12598132 - 01/27/18 05:03 PM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
Jig Man Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 4843
Loc: Over here...
I like the black chrome, or eagle claw lil nasty hooks... A good check for curing time is to let it cool and drop the jig on the floor. You will find out quick if you cured it hot enough and long enough. 350 wont effect the hook. IMO
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#12598453 - 01/27/18 10:09 PM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
machinist Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1792
Loc: Lake Graham, Lot 30
Skip I don't doubt what you are saying about what the paint people are telling you but they are not putting their paint on leadhead jigs usually. If I was powder painting a part for my car then yeah 30 minutes at 350 is fine. When you do jigs if you spend 30 minutes baking a jig and then tie it on and lose it on the first drop, well did it really have to be that hard? Do some for 5 minutes at 350 and when they cool drop them on the floor. If they chip do them for 10 minutes at 350 and try them. But if they don't chip then you were done at 5 minutes.
_________________________
I fish on the edge and stay out of the middle

99 BassCat Jag w/225 Merc Optimax

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#12598661 - 01/28/18 08:24 AM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
RODS454 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 1153
Loc: Midlothian
Thanks for the responses guys. I broke another yesterday on a hangup. It was one that had not been painted, so that eliminated that. Thanks again.
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#12598910 - 01/28/18 11:43 AM Re: Hooks [Re: RODS454]
RODS454 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 1153
Loc: Midlothian
I got a hold of the guy I got the jigs from this morning. He said he had 2 different boxes of bronze sickle hooks. He requested a pic of the jig. I sent him a pic of the broken one and a pic of an unbroken one. He pulled one from each box and the one I got did indeed break easier than the other. He is sending me a new batch. Will be in the mail tomorrow. Complete and excellent customer service. I'm very pleased!
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#12600302 - 01/29/18 11:43 AM Re: Hooks [Re: machinist]
Skip_48 Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 5478
Loc: Toledo Bend in Texas
Originally Posted By: machinist
Skip I don't doubt what you are saying about what the paint people are telling you but they are not putting their paint on leadhead jigs usually. If I was powder painting a part for my car then yeah 30 minutes at 350 is fine. When you do jigs if you spend 30 minutes baking a jig and then tie it on and lose it on the first drop, well did it really have to be that hard? Do some for 5 minutes at 350 and when they cool drop them on the floor. If they chip do them for 10 minutes at 350 and try them. But if they don't chip then you were done at 5 minutes.


All I can tell you is I have never had any troubles with this the way I do it and the only time I have had hooks breaking, everyone else had the same issue at the same time. They came that way from the Mfg. in China. First time it happened it was a big shock, then next time it happened was they moved which plant they were making them at and again they just didn't follow what they learned from the first problems. So in my 12 to 13 years tying and using powder Paint I have never had an issue. Also the people at Illusion paints (not a big know bunch) also are in the fishing business and their silver undercoat (basically Chrome with some of the Black stuff in it) needed 400 degrees for 20 minutes. Again all I know is I have never had an issue with my jigs painted the way I do them.

Glad they are replacing them for you. Just know it's not the first time and painting a curing is not what caused it.

Skip


Edited by Skip_48 (01/30/18 09:21 AM)
_________________________

Peak Vise Dealer
Tying Materials, Chenille and Hackle
For Pictures of my Crystal, Nylon/Rayon or
New Age Chenille Please PM Me! Also I
have the Saltwater Neck Hackle and some
colors of Marabou plus other things!



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