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Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12511901 11/21/17 11:01 PM
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I make a couple trips there each year. Will be there for the next four days.
I'll post a real report when I get back. Maybe even a pic or two! grin
No fish will be compromised in the making of the post. smile

Highs to be in the low 60s with 5-10 winds. Should be good.
Got all my #24s ready to go!

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12511930 11/21/17 11:45 PM
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Littledog, hoping for lots of hook-ups. One thing I've learned is to buy my midge hooks at Abe's. The price is about the same as anywhere...even online. They even have some nice barbless 30s...Gamakatsu C12-BM. Last time I looked, flows at 423 cfs...nice wading.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12512567 11/22/17 02:22 PM
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Dam

Looks like they do generate hydroelectric power there.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12512614 11/22/17 02:52 PM
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I stand corrected. Still, power for AC and heating doesn't dominate flow changes like the TVA system. I do think flow changes on the SJ are less frequent, but I haven't studied it closely.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12512722 11/22/17 04:12 PM
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The dams primary purpose is flood control and providing a year round "managed" flow for agriculture down stream.
The state of New Mexico works very closely with TU and other groups to maintain a very productive and fishable waterway below the dam. Planned changes in release levels are typically broadcast several days if not weeks in advance.
The tribal council, town of Navajo Dam, state on New Mexico, etc. know that maintaining a solid trophy fishery is crucial to their local economy.
Most years there is a "Spring flush" (4000cfm) that typically happens in early May. The duration is dependent on snow pack levels and timing is adjusted to line up with peak flows coming in from other rivers.
I really like fishing 400 to 550cfm levels. It starts getting a bit limiting or "sporty" (for me anyway) at 800cfm. I only wade fish. Drift boats are fine at any level from 400 to 4000. I have fished it at 300cfm where you could wade anywhere and see every fish. Don't think this makes it easier however.
I have fly fished a lot of different types of water all over the country for 30+ years. I would rate the San Juan as follows:
(1-10)
Opportunity to catch fish - 10 There are thousands of 12"+ fish per mile.
Quality of fish (health and size) - 8 Average size is 15" and they all pull really hard.
Ease / fishability / convenience - 10 Hotels and restaurants on the river. Paved parking beside the river. Easy to wade.
Technical / difficulty in catching fish - 7 This is catch and release water. Every fish has seen every fly at least 10 times. The water is clear and they know you are there from 100yds away. Normal flies are #22 and #24 fished on 12' 6x or 7x leaders. A 18" bow on 7x with a #24 hook aint child's play. The "7" would be a "10" if it weren't for there being thousands of fish.

If you have only fished the Guad or some water in Oklahoma or Arkansas, you really need to make a trip to the Juan.
It's different. In a good kinda way. You might not catch a lot of fish but you'll know it was your fault, not the river.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12512773 11/22/17 04:49 PM
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Nice summary and ratings. Not sure I've seen that many options for lodging. Texas Hole is the most popular spot, but I favor Munoz, a little further down stream.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12513489 11/23/17 03:28 AM
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Why no discussion? Because the fish are Ph.D.'s. ? And because it really isn't drivable solo? And because the cold bad weather is the best time, and Texans hate cold? Andy Kim was our guide way back - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXYxKVsRkuujuM3rrUeaoxw - and he schooled me. Texas Hole? That's where they snicker at Texans.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12513613 11/23/17 10:55 AM
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All true enough, but two of your points offset each other a bit. I've seen Andy on the water guiding a few times, but I usually head the other way because I'm often using his Yong Special, but I cheat a bit when tying it, using a black magic marker for the head. With the thread spun so much, my flies would unravel when I cut the body thread to change to black. This comment probably belongs in the tying section, but maybe midge fishing is part of the issue with the Juan. Go there a couple of times without them, and you likely won't go back.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12514327 11/24/17 01:39 AM
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If I'm headed west I'd much rather fish headwater streams with dries for opportunistic fish. The conejos drainage, pecos drainage, are all similar drives and there I can hike in to the headwaters for Brooks and cutthroats that will bite pretty much anything you throw at them, and a lot of them are solid 14-18" fish if you know where to go. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather fish headwaters for cuts and Brooks with dries than fish tailwaters with nymphs for bows and browns.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12515004 11/24/17 09:06 PM
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Very understandable and well stated. My friend and I had a great day on the Piedra near Pagoso Springs throwing #8 stimulators a couple of years back. We hiked a bit, but we had the river to ourselves. Although the salmon fly hatch was just over, the fish behaved like they wanted to have just one more. I'd like to develop a second location in New Mexico for some dry fly days, and still work in a visit to the Juan in Oct when I trust the flows will be good for wading. The Chama seems to be a good option, but I've never fished it. I have fished the Conejos, and enjoyed it, but I'd rather stay in NM and lessen the drive to Navajo Dam. I'm searching for the right area to find a B&B...just too old to back pack.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12515080 11/24/17 11:07 PM
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https://loeflyfishing.com/Fishing_Spots/Rivers_Streams/index.html

Nice little link to rivers and creeks up in the northern New Mexico.

I saw trip advisor had some places in Chama.

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12516422 11/26/17 05:03 AM
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^
The chama can go and stay off color for days after a rain. Upper chama fishes pretty good in late season. Rentals in chama late season will be taken up by leaf peepers on the Cumbres and Toltec railroad so if you want that as an option... Book chama early... But I'd fish the conejos and drive an extra 45 minutes to the San juan


Hooking a fish is like playing string with a cat. The exact size, shape, color of string matters less than how you wiggle it- and little cats are easier to fool than big ones. John Gierach
Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12516526 11/26/17 01:33 PM
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karstopo, thanks for the link(s)...quite useful and extensive.

papa, I've done it that way, but not late season. Was disappointed to find the Conejos too warm, but that was in July. Mid-October would be different.

I've heard stories of fisherman jumping off the Cumbres and Toltec railroad to fish the Los Pinos, and on a guided trip once, I could see the train passing close by on a bluff, but I'm sure we were on private land. Still, there are stories...

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12518891 11/28/17 04:46 PM
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Fished over the holiday weekend.
Highs in the 60s, lows near 30 each morning. Slight breeze in the afternoons.
Crunched a little ice on the walks in.
Water was crystal clear. Low, clear water makes things even more challenging.
Hardly anybody there.
Clear blue sky. Flow at around 400cfm. Could wade about anywhere.
Fantastic weather for this time of year.
9' 5wt, 10' ~ 12' leaders 6x and 7x.
Fished T-hole, Braids, Baetis bend, Munjos (lower flats).
Midge hatches were moderate but brief. Mostly from about 10:00am to noon with lots of rising fish.
NMFG had recently stocked A L O T of 8" to 10" fish. Caught those little things non stop.
I was told that back in Sept / Oct they were supposed to go somewhere else but the water was to warm so they got dumped in the Juan (?)
Wasn't until Saturday that I figured out where and how to get into the better fish.
All the fish over 14" were fat as footballs. Havent seen fish in that good a shape in a couple years on the Juan.
Fishing was best before the fish got going on the surface. Caught em on #24 midge emerger (black), #24 cream larvae, #24 black midge larvae under #6 or #8 lead.
I did fish dries (should say got suckered into fishing dries). I now have a bit less hair than before. Fished #22 Griffin's Gnat and #22 CDC midge cluster as indicator flies with #24 CDC emerger and #24 fore-and-aft as the second flies. I caught a couple fish on dries but the number of refusals made me scream.
Two best fish went about 20"s and came on the midge larvae. (Sorry, no pics. Too many fish to spend time messing with a camera.)
Most fish were caught in the faster running trenches at the heads of pools.

I've heard that those little stockers will all be 14"ers by spring. If that's true . . might want to start planning your trip now!

Re: San Juan in NM...why no discussion here? [Re: kaboboom] #12518992 11/28/17 05:55 PM
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This email just came to me. Might be useful to planning a trip


DGF-Parks banner
New Mexico Department of Game and Fish
Public contact, Information Center: (888) 248-6866
Media contact: Dan Williams: (505) 476-8004
dan.williams@state.nm.us

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, NOV. 28, 2017:
Upcoming enhancements of San Juan River
at Navajo Lake State Park
Expect temporary closures of day-use areas
FARMINGTON – The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish will begin a river enhancement project on Dec. 15 on the San Juan River at Navajo Lake State Park from Simon Point Day-Use Area downriver to the Crusher Hole Day-Use Area. Temporary closures of multiple day-use areas are expected until April 2018.
The project will include a new boat takeout at Crusher Hole Day-Use Area. The Crusher Hole area will be closed to the public from Dec. 15, 2017, through March 1, 2018. There will be no access to the boat takeout at Crusher Hole while the new takeout is constructed.
Bolack Day-Use Area will be closed from Dec. 15, 2017, through April 15, 2018. County Road 4280 that offers access to the area will also be closed to traffic. However, anglers may access the area at Cottonwood Campground.
A temporary boat takeout will be constructed at the Munoz Day-Use Area. The temporary takeout will provide public access to the upper portions of the river.
For the safety of all visitors to the park, use of the San Juan River past Simon Point, including portions in and out of the park boundaries, will be closed to boat traffic and wade fishing from Dec. 15, 2017, through March 1, 2018. Limited use of the river will be available from March 1, 2018, through April 15, 2018.
All listed areas will be posted closed and the gates will be locked. For more information, please visit nmparks.com or contact Navajo Lake State Park, (505) 632-2278.

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