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#12546029 - 12/21/17 07:11 AM Guides fishing ???
flukeman83 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 1260
This question is to NOT start an argument.
it is asked to gain understanding and maybe help "me" change my mind going into the new year.
WHY do 90% of the guides you hire feel it necessary to fish while they are "working" for the client ?
I have hired guides in the past,,,, several on different lakes.
3 of those guides did not fish at all ,,,, unless I asked them to.
#1.) put me & my son on more fish and bigger fish (Falcon) than I had ever caught before ... PB broke 3 times in one day.
Cost me a lot of money because it made me think I knew what I was doing and so I bought a bigger boat and started tournament fishing --- bad move on my
part. He did not fish at all. ran the TM from the back of the boat and gave us instructions
#2.) put me on fish (Fork) in places I have never fished Fork before and never fished once
#3.) couldn't speak very good English and never picked up a pole (El Salto) but man did we catch fish.

All the other guides I have hired ,,, fished,,, and fished from the front of the boat.

so why is it that "most" guides feel they should fish on the clients time ?
AGAIN,, it is just a question and not intended to start arguments ---- just good honest answers.
Maybe some GUIDES will chime in.

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#12546042 - 12/21/17 07:25 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
Jpurdue Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 04/28/14
Posts: 2454
Loc: NW Houston
Bass can be tough to figure out. When guides fish they are trying to figure out the pattern and trying to get some fish in the boat to give their clients confidence. I've never had one front end me though. I would not be okay with that. Either invite me up their with you, get a trolling motor with a remote, or let me do it.
_________________________
"Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish goes home through an alley." -A.L.

www.LunkerLore.com


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#12546062 - 12/21/17 07:40 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
the skipper Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 4275
Loc: nederland, TX
I know I could never sit in a boat all day and watch people fish without fishing myself. I wouldn't ever expect anybody else to do that. The guides I've been with have always fished just to figure out what they want to help everybody else catch fish. Some even ask if it's ok. I'm out there to have fun and learn a little. As bad as I want to catch a big fish, I get excited seeing anybody in the boat catch one.

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#12546109 - 12/21/17 08:06 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
photofishin Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/21/14
Posts: 154
Loc: Houston, Texas
as a former guide, I can say personally that I love to fish. Why wouldn't I fish too? I always fished to make sure where fish were located and that the patterns I had already established prior to the trip held up. If I had one person on the boat, I'd fish. Two people, I'd fish less and instruct more, three people...I'd rarely have time to pick up a pole. As for the front of the boat...you DO know that's where most trolling motors are located right? I always invite a client to the front of the boat to target fish, however more often than not, I'm positioning the boat so everyone on board can reach the fish easily with a cast.

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#12546119 - 12/21/17 08:12 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
ChuChu1 Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 3415
Loc: Gonzales, Tx
I have hired about five guides, and some fished and some didn't. One catfish guide never held a rod except to instruct my wife and she caught more fish than she ever had.
I once hired a guide on Fayette to learn a new technique, and he fished the whole time, even to a point I apologized to another boat that he cut off on a rock pile in the plant intake. Only thing I learned that day was how to be a jerk if I ever needed to be.
_________________________
Snowflakes and entitled brats will be the doom of America!



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#12546132 - 12/21/17 08:23 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: photofishin]
Ken A. Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 10155
Loc: Trophy Club, TX
Originally Posted By: photofishin
as a former guide, I can say personally that I love to fish. Why wouldn't I fish too? I always fished to make sure where fish were located and that the patterns I had already established prior to the trip held up. If I had one person on the boat, I'd fish. Two people, I'd fish less and instruct more, three people...I'd rarely have time to pick up a pole. As for the front of the boat...you DO know that's where most trolling motors are located right? I always invite a client to the front of the boat to target fish, however more often than not, I'm positioning the boat so everyone on board can reach the fish easily with a cast.


This sounds a lot like how I used to do it. If I have a guy or guys with me that I know can actually hit the targets and work the lure properly, I would fish very little.

It is not fair to you to have to feel like your in competition with the guide to see who can catch the most fish during your trip. I have fished with a couple guides that have tried very hard to catch as many fish as they can just to be able to say, "We caught em today" if asked (and they are always asked).

I actually know a guide that used to tell me, "My goal everyday when I go out is to catch 20 fish. If I catch 20, then I know I've had the boat around fish and my clients should catch their share as well." This is not the proper mentality to be a guide IMO.

Boat positioning is so critical when guiding. One of the things I would do is to get the boat set so the two guys (or gals) with me could always cast with the wind if it was blowing more than 10 mph. I would anchor or tie up and let the back of the boat swing toward the targeted area. Then I would have the guys get on the back deck and go after it. From May thru Sept I would use the anchor daily at Fork. Most guides will not do this.

With the new Spot Lock feature on a lot of TM's these days, it will make it a LOT easier on the guide.

So to the original poster, "So why is it that "most" guides feel they should fish on the clients time?"

I think it is pretty simple. Ego...

There is not an angler out there that doesn't want to be able to say at the end of the day, "We caught em good!" Fork is fishing tough right now. Guides are struggling to stay on fish their clients can catch. It is a very tough way to make a living these days. The fact of the matter is that the boat will catch about twice as many fish if the guide fishes versus not.


Edited by Ken A. (12/21/17 08:34 AM)

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#12546216 - 12/21/17 09:29 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
flukeman83 Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 1260
These first 5 comments are REALLY good.
Ken A --- yours is spot on --- in my opinion
front of the boat & TM has nothing to do with whether or not a guide fishes.
they could operate the T/M without fishing, my guide on Fork did just that & did a wonderful job.
they could get a T/M with remote control,,,, the new technology,,,,, would never need to be on the front of the boat, my guide on Falcon had that 4 years ago & he did a GREAT job.

I agree that being a fish guide is a very tuff way to make a living.
My hat is off to those that try because it truly is a labor of love

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#12546271 - 12/21/17 10:03 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
361V Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 5127
Loc: somervell county
Absolutely I want my guide to fish with me. A lot to learn from how they fish also. I do not want them taking me to an area and then watch me or wait on me. I have though been on the receiving end once when the famous bass guide/radio tracker John Hope on Houston County Lake sent me out with one of his "associates" and the guy basically "front ended" me all day even to the point of fishing for bed fish only he could cast to. I was basically financially supporting his fishing habit. Bad experiance but clearly an exception not the rule.


Edited by 361V (12/21/17 10:04 AM)
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#12546311 - 12/21/17 10:27 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
Bobby Milam Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 07/13/14
Posts: 3579
Loc: Arlington
The good guides might fish some, especially if I wasn’t catching, so we could see if it was me. They usually put it down after a couple have been caught and gave me access to the fish because they didn’t want to hook a big one.

I had one that stated he only fished if asked. We fished my boat. He hopped in took over the front, and fished all day with us catching only a couple of tiny ones. He gave virtually no instruction. When I suggested that we try another bait he advised that fish weren’t biting that this early in the year. I got so mad that I cut the trip short and went home. Got on TFF and read how many were out there catching fish on the lite I suggested.

Some guides guide and some just get paid to fish. Got to research who you use.

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#12546333 - 12/21/17 10:48 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
David Welcher Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 2149
Loc: Weatherford
If I hire a guide he's doing what I want.

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#12546353 - 12/21/17 11:12 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: Bobby Milam]
Ken A. Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 10155
Loc: Trophy Club, TX
Originally Posted By: Bobby Milam
The good guides might fish some, especially if I wasn’t catching, so we could see if it was me. They usually put it down after a couple have been caught and gave me access to the fish because they didn’t want to hook a big one.

I had one that stated he only fished if asked. We fished my boat. He hopped in took over the front, and fished all day with us catching only a couple of tiny ones. He gave virtually no instruction. When I suggested that we try another bait he advised that fish weren’t biting that this early in the year. I got so mad that I cut the trip short and went home. Got on TFF and read how many were out there catching fish on the lite I suggested.

Some guides guide and some just get paid to fish. Got to research who you use.


I bet I know him!

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#12546354 - 12/21/17 11:13 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
Shallow Waters Online   content
Pro Angler

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 539
I personally use guide trips as learning trips and prefer for my guide to fish. I typically have a lengthy discussion with them before booking as well just let them know what I want to work on and find out what they may be best at.

I guess it really depends on what you are looking for. If looking to just catch fish then I could see not wanting the guide to fish. I have been out with a few groups in the gulf where this was the case, but when I am fishing a lake I am doing it to learn something other than a waypoint.

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#12546377 - 12/21/17 11:30 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
txmasterpo Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 6327
Loc: Emory
Did you ask them to teach and not fish? I can't imagine why I'd give a [censored] myself, but I bet none would fish if you explained how you wanted your trip to go

I couldn't guide... I'd choke somebody
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http://www.trccovers.com

"What goes on around you compares little with what goes on inside you."

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#12546379 - 12/21/17 11:32 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
Tom Mayne Guide Service Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 595
People hire Guides for a lot of different reasons. Fish can and do change daily therefore if you hire a Guide do you really want him not fishing at all? I do agree once the fish are found the Guide should lay his pole down if that’s what the customer wants. Like i said a lot of different reasons Guides are hired. Communication is key.
_________________________
Tom Mayne-Lake Fork, Palestine, and Tyler fishing guide.

www.lakepalestinefishingguide.com
www.falconrods.com
http://www.lews.com/castingreels.php
www.ownerhooks.com

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#12546392 - 12/21/17 11:43 AM Re: Guides fishing ??? [Re: flukeman83]
txmasterpo Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 6327
Loc: Emory
If you are someone that likes to fish with a guide, the only way to really get the best result is to not worry about the fishing while you develop a relationship with him. Find one that suits you and invest in it....6-8 trips a year, phone calls, communication, build the friendship and you will get his best everytime....true story
_________________________
http://www.trccovers.com

"What goes on around you compares little with what goes on inside you."

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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