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#12510332 - 11/20/17 10:00 AM Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors
Jamesche Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 11/12/16
Posts: 16
Like many of you, my team includes several boat captains who are new to our sport. Some of them are dads who bought a bass boat just so that they could spend time with their kid(s), but they don't know all of the "rules of the road".

This past weekend on PK, we were set up just off of a point waiting for lines in. While we were sitting there, two boats drove between us and the point, going right over the water we were going to fish. We decided to try a few casts anyway after lines in, and even while we were fishing the spot, another boat drove right over our lines. Needless to say, no fish caught on that spot.

Later in the day, we were fishing a bluff wall. Another competitor turned 90 degrees, came right at us, and drove between us and the bluff wall, even though there was barely enough room for him.

I don't think these captains had any kind of malicious intent. I think that they simply don't understand some of the rules that many of us take for granted. They're possibly new to the sport and haven't been taught, so here's my appeal. I would ask that all team advisors carve out some time in your meetings to talk about boat etiquette. Help to teach people some of the courtesy rules that are easy to break if you aren't experienced. I think it will make our tournament experience better, and I think it helps our captains and our anglers to enrich the future of our sport.

Another great topic is boat ramp etiquette. We regularly see guys back down to the ramp before getting the boat ready, leaving headlights on at the ramp, and so forth. Again, I don't think they're doing it just to make people upset. I think they just don't know any better.

Thanks for listening.

Jim

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#12510797 - 11/20/17 05:51 PM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Jamesche]
Catfishd Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Arlington, Texas
Jim I am the president of our Bass Team Booster Club. We also have many new faces and new to tournament fishing anglers and captains. In the instance of boats running over your lines or cutting you off or running too close causing a safety issue. It is your duty to record this or take a clear photo and report to the director or the tournament. I realize no one wants to be a snitch but if you and others don’t report then they can’t and won’t learn a lesson.if you are anchored up (power poles down or using a anchor) they must stay 50yards away. If you are on trolling motor and fishing they must stay 25yards away in any direction. We preach safety First and to know the rules. My two boys take this serious and remind me to connect kill switch if I forget before we take off. I won’t leave the trolling motor until they have life jackets on and buckled and sitting. It’s going to take someone to turn these guys in to make an example but THSBA cannot do anything without reliable photo or video of boat numbers and jerseys.
_________________________
Jaws ( AKA Danny )
D&D Cabling Solutions
817-213-6733
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#12511782 - 11/21/17 03:09 PM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Jamesche]
CubbyObrien Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 541
Loc: Ft. worth
Jim,

In a nut shell, please record the unsafe actions or rule violations and send to the TD immediately. There is a system in place to handle this but if its not reported in a timely manner with supporting evidence, there is little that can be done. You are right in your assumption that this is most likely someone who just doesn't know the rules and that is not a valid excuse on their part. Every angler and Cpt signs the form saying they have read the rules and its even a sticky on this forum, so there is no excuse.





Originally Posted By: Jamesche
Like many of you, my team includes several boat captains who are new to our sport. Some of them are dads who bought a bass boat just so that they could spend time with their kid(s), but they don't know all of the "rules of the road".

This past weekend on PK, we were set up just off of a point waiting for lines in. While we were sitting there, two boats drove between us and the point, going right over the water we were going to fish. We decided to try a few casts anyway after lines in, and even while we were fishing the spot, another boat drove right over our lines. Needless to say, no fish caught on that spot.

Later in the day, we were fishing a bluff wall. Another competitor turned 90 degrees, came right at us, and drove between us and the bluff wall, even though there was barely enough room for him.

I don't think these captains had any kind of malicious intent. I think that they simply don't understand some of the rules that many of us take for granted. They're possibly new to the sport and haven't been taught, so here's my appeal. I would ask that all team advisors carve out some time in your meetings to talk about boat etiquette. Help to teach people some of the courtesy rules that are easy to break if you aren't experienced. I think it will make our tournament experience better, and I think it helps our captains and our anglers to enrich the future of our sport.

Another great topic is boat ramp etiquette. We regularly see guys back down to the ramp before getting the boat ready, leaving headlights on at the ramp, and so forth. Again, I don't think they're doing it just to make people upset. I think they just don't know any better.

Thanks for listening.

Jim
_________________________
Go home at the end of your shift, no mater the cost!


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#12521183 - 11/30/17 08:27 AM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Jamesche]
Jamesche Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 11/12/16
Posts: 16
I know, but if you have this happen early in the morning, there's no way to see boat numbers. Like many others, I see several safety rules broken at each tournament, but by the time I can get my phone out and start recording, there's no way to make out boat numbers. Truthfully, you'd need a video camera with a zoom lens on it at the ready throughout the day in order to be able to report reliably.

I think it's also important to realize that a boat can do the wrong thing without getting within 25 yards. If we're obviously set up on a long point and you drive your boat between our boat and the bank (but further away than 25 yards), you haven't technically broken a rule of the tournament, but you have done wrong.

Jim

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#12521693 - 11/30/17 05:04 PM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Jamesche]
Txduckhunter Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 1748
Loc: Lake Fork
[quote=Jamesche)
I think it's also important to realize that a boat can do the wrong thing without getting within 25 yards. If we're obviously set up on a long point and you drive your boat between our boat and the bank (but further away than 25 yards), you haven't technically broken a rule of the tournament, but you have done wrong.

Jim [/quote]

Devils advocate here - they haven't broken a rule...big difference in the two. Enforcing ethics is a slippery slope and I'll give you an example.... This past summer we attended the National Championship on Pickwick. It is primarily a ledge fishing lake, which I am dismal at best at. We found several spots during practice but on tourney day, there were 3-5 boats on almost every spot we had found. I was talking to a "local" captain that night and (long story short) he told me that I should have stopped and fished the spots - it was acceptable practice there as long as you didn't park right on top of the fish. I shook my head..........here that would cause a fist fight, shooting or both. Different locale, different accepted practices. We stayed with our beliefs and didn't crowd anyone.
Point being, what you and I consider unethical, someone else may not, may be an accepted thing where they come from OR they just don't know any better.
Which brings it back to the OT. It must be addressed at the meetings by the advisors and practiced by the captains and/or the kids.
As to rule violations, I'm not going to "report" someone who comes to close (IMO) unless they persist after I've informed them that they are breaking a rule. Safety violations where a kid's well-bring is at risk will always get a protest if I can get the info to share with the tournament director.

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#12522547 - 12/01/17 08:12 AM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Txduckhunter]
Jamesche Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 11/12/16
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: Txduckhunter
Enforcing ethics is a slippery slope and I'll give you an example.... This past summer we attended the National Championship on Pickwick. It is primarily a ledge fishing lake, which I am dismal at best at. We found several spots during practice but on tourney day, there were 3-5 boats on almost every spot we had found. I was talking to a "local" captain that night and (long story short) he told me that I should have stopped and fished the spots - it was acceptable practice there as long as you didn't park right on top of the fish. I shook my head..........here that would cause a fist fight, shooting or both. Different locale, different accepted practices. We stayed with our beliefs and didn't crowd anyone.
Point being, what you and I consider unethical, someone else may not, may be an accepted thing where they come from OR they just don't know any better.
Which brings it back to the OT. It must be addressed at the meetings by the advisors and practiced by the captains and/or the kids.
As to rule violations, I'm not going to "report" someone who comes to close (IMO) unless they persist after I've informed them that they are breaking a rule. Safety violations where a kid's well-bring is at risk will always get a protest if I can get the info to share with the tournament director.


You and I are on exactly the same train of thought. It really gets even murkier than that. Some people believe it's okay to jump in front of a boat fishing down a bank as long as they are at least 100 yards in front of them. In my opinion, if someone is obviously working their way down a bank, you don't cut in front of them, regardless of how far away you are. As you say, what I consider to be unethical, another angler may not.

So, yes, my original point was an appeal to team advisors to carve out some time to have that conversation. I think a big part of high school fishing is education, and I don't think that education is limited to students. Many of our boat captains are new and will likely appreciate the info. In my experience, most people are good people out there trying to enjoy our sport.

Jim

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#12522914 - 12/01/17 12:16 PM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Jamesche]
5X3Phoenix Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 909
Loc: Porter, TX
Originally Posted By: Jamesche
Originally Posted By: Txduckhunter
Enforcing ethics is a slippery slope and I'll give you an example.... This past summer we attended the National Championship on Pickwick. It is primarily a ledge fishing lake, which I am dismal at best at. We found several spots during practice but on tourney day, there were 3-5 boats on almost every spot we had found. I was talking to a "local" captain that night and (long story short) he told me that I should have stopped and fished the spots - it was acceptable practice there as long as you didn't park right on top of the fish. I shook my head..........here that would cause a fist fight, shooting or both. Different locale, different accepted practices. We stayed with our beliefs and didn't crowd anyone.
Point being, what you and I consider unethical, someone else may not, may be an accepted thing where they come from OR they just don't know any better.
Which brings it back to the OT. It must be addressed at the meetings by the advisors and practiced by the captains and/or the kids.
As to rule violations, I'm not going to "report" someone who comes to close (IMO) unless they persist after I've informed them that they are breaking a rule. Safety violations where a kid's well-bring is at risk will always get a protest if I can get the info to share with the tournament director.


You and I are on exactly the same train of thought. It really gets even murkier than that. Some people believe it's okay to jump in front of a boat fishing down a bank as long as they are at least 100 yards in front of them. In my opinion, if someone is obviously working their way down a bank, you don't cut in front of them, regardless of how far away you are. As you say, what I consider to be unethical, another angler may not.

So, yes, my original point was an appeal to team advisors to carve out some time to have that conversation. I think a big part of high school fishing is education, and I don't think that education is limited to students. Many of our boat captains are new and will likely appreciate the info. In my experience, most people are good people out there trying to enjoy our sport.

Jim


So where does your moral compass end? Honestly? Not provoking. I fish a dozen or so team tourneys a year and do everything possible in preparation to never be within a hundred yards of a bank- but with high schoolers, it's different. Most have not developed the skills/patience to fish deep. So I ask you (devil's advocate), how far is far enough? If you're on one bank of a creek that is a mile deep, are you saying that whole mile should be yours? When I'm on the East end of a 300 yard long point and I would like to fish the 300yd+ South and North drops of that point, is it unethical for a team to pull up two hundred yards from me and fish part of one of those drops? No, not unethical or against the rules (and if someone disagrees, they need to fish nothing but private lakes). My point is that if you're just going blindly down some random bank fishing, then you're just looking for luck anyway, no offense. My opinion is that you shouldn't be offended if someone pulls in a hundred yards, or two hundred, or a half mile in front of you on the same bank. Maybe they prefished, found the juice of that bank-which might be a 50 yard stretch- and they'll be in that stretch for two hours? I'm not mad at 'em. If I'm hanging my tourney hopes on randomly fishing down banks, then I simply go find another bank if I don't want to fish behind another boat. But the odds are that new bank has already had a couple boats down it already anyway. Just my $.02 and a different perspective.

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#12523050 - 12/01/17 01:47 PM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Jamesche]
CubbyObrien Offline
Pro Angler

Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 541
Loc: Ft. worth
Hey guys,

Slow down a bit and take a breath before its gets heated. The bottom line is we need proof to DQ a team for any reason. The "Proof" sometimes is hard to come buy and taking one word over another is'nt going to tip the THSBA scale of justice one way or another vy iteself. The preponderance of proof is the level that is wanted but that is hard to get at times. Its easy when we have video and photo's and I understand that its hard to get that evidence at times. As a boat cpt or adviser you still should try and get boat description, clothing etc....and getthat to the TD. Most kids are wearing jerseys that will assist this effort due to color schemes. We can at least make contact and take that opportunity to educate that team if we can not enforce a rule violation.
_________________________
Go home at the end of your shift, no mater the cost!


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#12523220 - 12/01/17 04:18 PM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: 5X3Phoenix]
Txduckhunter Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 1748
Loc: Lake Fork
Originally Posted By: 5X3Phoenix
Originally Posted By: Jamesche
Originally Posted By: Txduckhunter
Enforcing ethics is a slippery slope and I'll give you an example.... This past summer we attended the National Championship on Pickwick. It is primarily a ledge fishing lake, which I am dismal at best at. We found several spots during practice but on tourney day, there were 3-5 boats on almost every spot we had found. I was talking to a "local" captain that night and (long story short) he told me that I should have stopped and fished the spots - it was acceptable practice there as long as you didn't park right on top of the fish. I shook my head..........here that would cause a fist fight, shooting or both. Different locale, different accepted practices. We stayed with our beliefs and didn't crowd anyone.
Point being, what you and I consider unethical, someone else may not, may be an accepted thing where they come from OR they just don't know any better.
Which brings it back to the OT. It must be addressed at the meetings by the advisors and practiced by the captains and/or the kids.
As to rule violations, I'm not going to "report" someone who comes to close (IMO) unless they persist after I've informed them that they are breaking a rule. Safety violations where a kid's well-bring is at risk will always get a protest if I can get the info to share with the tournament director.


You and I are on exactly the same train of thought. It really gets even murkier than that. Some people believe it's okay to jump in front of a boat fishing down a bank as long as they are at least 100 yards in front of them. In my opinion, if someone is obviously working their way down a bank, you don't cut in front of them, regardless of how far away you are. As you say, what I consider to be unethical, another angler may not.

So, yes, my original point was an appeal to team advisors to carve out some time to have that conversation. I think a big part of high school fishing is education, and I don't think that education is limited to students. Many of our boat captains are new and will likely appreciate the info. In my experience, most people are good people out there trying to enjoy our sport.

Jim


So where does your moral compass end? Honestly? Not provoking. I fish a dozen or so team tourneys a year and do everything possible in preparation to never be within a hundred yards of a bank- but with high schoolers, it's different. Most have not developed the skills/patience to fish deep. So I ask you (devil's advocate), how far is far enough? If you're on one bank of a creek that is a mile deep, are you saying that whole mile should be yours? When I'm on the East end of a 300 yard long point and I would like to fish the 300yd+ South and North drops of that point, is it unethical for a team to pull up two hundred yards from me and fish part of one of those drops? No, not unethical or against the rules (and if someone disagrees, they need to fish nothing but private lakes). My point is that if you're just going blindly down some random bank fishing, then you're just looking for luck anyway, no offense. My opinion is that you shouldn't be offended if someone pulls in a hundred yards, or two hundred, or a half mile in front of you on the same bank. Maybe they prefished, found the juice of that bank-which might be a 50 yard stretch- and they'll be in that stretch for two hours? I'm not mad at 'em. If I'm hanging my tourney hopes on randomly fishing down banks, then I simply go find another bank if I don't want to fish behind another boat. But the odds are that new bank has already had a couple boats down it already anyway. Just my $.02 and a different perspective.


Not sure if your asking me......
I'll cut 100 yds in front of someone if it is a long bank and normally never think about it - HS or my trail(s). I'll also move in behind someone and fish "used" water. My belief is simple, most of the time you can't catch "my" fish. Now if it is a small cut, I'll pass on it and leave it to who is fishing it - doesn't mean I won't come back later.
With some lakes, you'll always be fishing "used" water due to their size. On some lakes, there may be 20 boats in a cut depending on time of year (I can think of one spot on a lake close to Dallas), in which case it is just how it's done and you wait your turn to move up if you want in there. Different lakes fish differently.
If your on the trolling motor and come up on someone, just ask them how they want you to pass them or approach the area they are fishing. Communication goes a long way.

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#12525440 - 12/03/17 02:19 PM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Txduckhunter]
C130 Online   content
Angler

Registered: 06/26/16
Posts: 422
Loc: Magnolia, TX
Originally Posted By: Txduckhunter
[quote=5X3Phoenix][quote=Jamesche][quote=Txduckhunter]. Communication goes a long way.


That is True! I had two very different experiences in the last two tournaments. First one was on Livingston and the boat captain comes up and bypasses about three boats lined up and parks right behind us until first cast time. At first cast he pulls within a boat length (20 ft.) and asks me which direction we are casting and I tell him both. It's the back of a cove and very narrow and we are at the end of it. He informs me that we need to choose one side or the other but can't fish both sides. He's literally right next to my boat. I tried to get his TX numbers but he positioned the boat where I couldn't see them and they were very low on the front of the bow. On Conroe a boat captain pulls up to a spot where we've been since 0415 and ask me which way we plan to start fishing at first cast. I tell him we plan on just sitting at the spot for a while and he asks if he can start in front of our area and fish down the bank. Very courteous and respectful, everyone was happy. Only thing I saw was kid start casting at 0630, 10 early. We made comment that I think he heard and he stopped. Unfortunately, too many of the anglers don't read the rules and it's obvious with the questions I constatnly get from the same club members. Good kids, they just won't take the time to read the info.


Edited by C130 (12/03/17 02:22 PM)
_________________________
Bass Cat Eyra

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#12528726 - 12/06/17 09:04 AM Re: Appeal to THSBA Team Advisors [Re: Jamesche]
Jamesche Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 11/12/16
Posts: 16
I think we're all cool. Not going to get heated! smile Personally, I think this is a good discussion.

I'm not exactly sure of the distance I would feel comfortable fishing in front of someone moving down a bank. I try to avoid it if at all possible, and if I do want to move further down and fish a particular spot in front of someone, I'll always stop and ask them if they would mind. My thought is that they might be trying to ease up on a sweet spot nice and slow. (I do that often.) I've had mixed results with doing that. Some guys are really nice, whether their answer is "yes" or "no". Others look at me like I'm a space alien. I've had other people just ignore me, and I just move on.

I agree that communication is key. In the end, there are no hard rules, written or otherwise, about this kind of thing. It really just boils down to trying to be courteous to fellow fishermen and do the right thing. I think that's especially important when you're in the boat with two young, impressionable anglers.

Thanks for the conversation. Always nice to hear other points of view.

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