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#12497917 - 11/09/17 10:50 AM 4.5l Duramax
dk2429 Offline
Angler

Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 253
Loc: Pearland, TX
Just read that GM will be introducing a 4.5l Duramax LMK in the 1500 trucks next year. The interesting thing is, GM claims that there will be no help from Isuzu on the 4.5, and will be a 100% in-house diesel by GM. Just curious what y'all think!


Edited by dk2429 (11/09/17 10:52 AM)
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2006 Chevy 2500HD Silverado/6.6 Duramax LBZ



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#12498094 - 11/09/17 01:32 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6864
Loc: texas
Have not kept too up on it, but I believe Isuzu has been out of it for a while, GM has been making the 6.6's on their own without Isuzu for some time.

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#12498113 - 11/09/17 01:51 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
patriot07 Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 18495
Loc: chateau d'if
I don't understand large-ish diesels in half tons. The point of a half ton diesel is gas mileage. I think Ram did it right with the ED. Put a 3-3.5 liter in there and live with an 8k lbs towing capacity.

If the mpg isn't significantly improved from the gas motor, you won't recover the cost of extra maintenance, up front cost, etc. And I'm not sure it will be just based on the results from the Titan Cummins combo.
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#12498167 - 11/09/17 02:24 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6864
Loc: texas
I think with adequate tuning, gearing, and operation a motor of that size could make the economy. The 5.0 cummins is of similar size and is feeding 8 cylinders. It will be interesting to see how it does if it really comes out.

To me a perk of the 5.9/6.7 cummins has always ben a simple inline motor with much fewer simpler easier to access and work on parts than the v-8 options its counterparts used, no idea why they made the small 5 liter a v-8.

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#12498177 - 11/09/17 02:31 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: patriot07]
Samsonsworld Online   content
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 3137
Loc: Oeste Del Tejas
Originally Posted By: patriot07
I don't understand large-ish diesels in half tons. The point of a half ton diesel is gas mileage. I think Ram did it right with the ED. Put a 3-3.5 liter in there and live with an 8k lbs towing capacity.

If the mpg isn't significantly improved from the gas motor, you won't recover the cost of extra maintenance, up front cost, etc. And I'm not sure it will be just based on the results from the Titan Cummins combo.


I agree. It's getting where the engine outperforms the rest of the truck.

Want insult? Was reading today where a Honda Ridgeline has as much payload capacity as my old F150...and it's not just Ford. Until that's addressed, bigger engines are meaningless in half tons imo. Go for economy.

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#12498264 - 11/09/17 03:40 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: Samsonsworld]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6864
Loc: texas
Originally Posted By: Samsonsworld
Originally Posted By: patriot07
I don't understand large-ish diesels in half tons. The point of a half ton diesel is gas mileage. I think Ram did it right with the ED. Put a 3-3.5 liter in there and live with an 8k lbs towing capacity.

If the mpg isn't significantly improved from the gas motor, you won't recover the cost of extra maintenance, up front cost, etc. And I'm not sure it will be just based on the results from the Titan Cummins combo.


I agree. It's getting where the engine outperforms the rest of the truck.

Want insult? Was reading today where a Honda Ridgeline has as much payload capacity as my old F150...and it's not just Ford. Until that's addressed, bigger engines are meaningless in half tons imo. Go for economy.


Lol... yal are probably right, I think my chevy cavalier and my wifes cross over ford escape have about the same payload rating as my ram 1500.

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#12498293 - 11/09/17 04:03 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: redchevy]
tmd11111 Online   content
Angler

Registered: 04/30/17
Posts: 415
Loc: San Angelo
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I think with adequate tuning, gearing, and operation a motor of that size could make the economy. The 5.0 cummins is of similar size and is feeding 8 cylinders. It will be interesting to see how it does if it really comes out.

To me a perk of the 5.9/6.7 cummins has always ben a simple inline motor with much fewer simpler easier to access and work on parts than the v-8 options its counterparts used, no idea why they made the small 5 liter a v-8.


Except the new Cumming inline ain't so simple anymore. Just as much emissions cr@p on it as Ford's and GM's. Never understood the logic of making a motor 40% cleaner at the expense of using 40% more fuel.

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#12498300 - 11/09/17 04:11 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6864
Loc: texas
Yeah, it makes the exhaust 40% cleaner while destroying the motor and burning more fuel.

The cummins is still a much simpler motor.

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#12498361 - 11/09/17 04:47 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
HasBen Online   content
TFF Guru

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 22381
Loc: Texas
It seems like the Nissan Titan with the 5 liter v8 Cummins has been a dud. I have read a lot of reviews and there is not much good out there about the truck or the engine.
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#12498378 - 11/09/17 04:59 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: HasBen]
tmd11111 Online   content
Angler

Registered: 04/30/17
Posts: 415
Loc: San Angelo
Originally Posted By: HasBen
It seems like the Nissan Titan with the 5 liter v8 Cummins has been a dud. I have read a lot of reviews and there is not much good out there about the truck or the engine.


Only rated to tow 200#'s more than a some half tons out there and less cargo load then almost all half tons out there. Fuel economy is nothing to brag about either. Only thing going for it is price but then again Nissan's have lousy resale value so no real savings there either. Basically a solution to a non existent problem.

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#12498418 - 11/09/17 05:40 PM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
diesel_Power_House Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 51
Loc: Mid cities, DFW
I can write out where the 5 liter cummins lineage comes from and why it’s a flop to most people if y’all would like me to. I had to study extensively on it and learn everything about it before it hit the market while I worked at Nissan.

I think the 4.5 duramax would be a great optionas long as the price point is where it should be. The problem is the emissions equipment that is required falls on the shoulders of the manufacturer of the vehicle; the engineering and design of the systems. This drives the price up. Also these systems seem to be really complicated to the end user consumer, and the price of maintenance and repairs is steep. The EGR system is a requirement for all public highway vehicle that isn’t needed on a diesel due to how they operate, to lower emissions. But the advantage is there is actually in-used O2 in there (diesel from the factory actually run on a surplus of air), meaning you can reuse some of it and not need to use as much fuel to generate cruising speed power. Also, due to the EGR cooler, it also keeps combustion temperature down. What needs to be adopted is a “hot side” EGR valve. This will cut EGR valve coaking failures by 90%. Also they need a catch can/filter for the PCV system to keep oil vapor out of the intake track. Cummins does this already.

The rest of the emissions system could be rendered useless by changing the fuel used. They make 100% synthetic diesel, and plant based oils can also be used. There is also the option of making diesel fuel from secretions produced by alge. These fuel sources also have a promising effect as they all produce less emissions, sun-diesel producing almost zero. But they all are more expensive to produce that fossil fuels.

In the end, give it time and, just as the emissions on gasoline engines has evolved and now is not seen as a issue, the equipment on Diesel engines will follow in the same path.

By nature, turbo Diesel engines get 30% better fuel economy than a similar sized gas engine.

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#12498818 - 11/10/17 06:24 AM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
patriot07 Offline
TFF Guru

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 18495
Loc: chateau d'if
Yall aren't going to get any argument from me on the detrimental effects of diesel emissions requirements. It's a shame.
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Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
- Soren Kierkegaard

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#12499972 - 11/11/17 07:51 AM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
Allison1 Online   sleepy
TFF Guru

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 17952
Loc: Grand Prairie, Tx
I don't understand 40% drop in emissions.
In the VW scandal the defeat devices were allowing as much as 40 times the emissions than they were designed to emit. These vehicles had no visual emissions even when under the cheating so a non EPA engine like my Dodge probably is even much worse.
One vehicle tested had an EPA limit of .043 g/km. In testing it showed much lower emissions at .022 g/km on the dyno but when tested on the road with the defeat device was emitting .61 to 1.5 g/km. Another vehicle was tested at .016 on the dyno, far below the standard of .043 but also was emitting well over the EPA limit at .34 to .67 p/km.


Diesel emissions, P10, is a carcinogen in the atmosphere. Lowering it is a good thing and EPA emissions are far higher than 40 percent.


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#12499977 - 11/11/17 07:55 AM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
Allison1 Online   sleepy
TFF Guru

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 17952
Loc: Grand Prairie, Tx
As far as the 4.5 Duramax I wonder if its the same or close to the same motor they were developing about 8 years ago.

I searched and all the articles mentioning the engine was 7 years old or more.

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#12501015 - 11/12/17 09:15 AM Re: 4.5l Duramax [Re: dk2429]
diesel_Power_House Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 51
Loc: Mid cities, DFW
As far as the aftertreatment systems go, they are here to stay. And I truly belive that just like back when they started introducing emissions equipment on gas vehicles, given some time, they will become more efficient and hardly noticed. There are ways to get these systems to operate more reliably. Every time you stop to get fuel, top off your def tank. Make sure you put the cap on tight and check the seal. Def will cristilize rapidly when exposed to air, and this hard matter is what’s causes most issues with the def system. With the DPF system, NEVER skip a regen or terminate a regen. This means that if your truck is starting to regen and you pull in to the driveway, throw the truck in to reverse and drive till that regen is finished. Try your best to not make short trips with it. They to make the engine work as much as possible; tow or haul something. Get out on the highway and make a 2-3 hour nonstop trip once or twice a month. You can get you some header/exhaust wrap and wrap the exhaust system from behind the turbo to the outlet of the DPF. This will keep as much heat in the exhaust and maximize passive regen, and shorten the heat up portion of the regen process.

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