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Re: Ford Raptor [Re: tmd11111] #12497414 11/09/17 02:05 AM
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Nice!!!!

Re: Ford Raptor [Re: redchevy] #12497511 11/09/17 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: diesel_Power_House
Yea if you want to win Baja with a warranty, buy a raptor. Lets not forget about the bending of the frame behind the cab designed IN the structure of the truck to save your $20K shocks.

450hp, thats cute. I can get that with a tune out of a 6.2 GM engine, 550HP with just a tune on an LBZ Duramax, no warranty voided, and I still have a usable truck. I can build a raptor level truck from any other manufacturer with out voiding the warranty for less that the price of a raptor. Personally, I dont care about the exclusivity. I would much rather be proud that I built it and didnt buy it.


Lol, ill let you and your attorney defend that to the warranty people.


No need to. The the burden of proof that a modification was/is the cause of the failure. And a tune doesnt have to leave a foot print, much less its even harder to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a tune is the cause of any specific drivetrain failure.

EFI live as a consumer product dosent leave a foot print. Calibrated power solutions; duramax tuner does, for example, even though they use EFILive. But that is because the lock the tune files. This dosent lock the ECM/PCM. Dealership scanning equipment dosent have the ability to look at what is the desired operating parameters and the look up tables for corrections. All OBD 2 diagnostic scanners that have the most ability can live stream view a limited number, or field of view, of what the desired operating parameters are, and what the actual data is, of the specific system(s) that the scanner has the ability to monitor. The only thing the lock does is keep other persons or companies from downloading the tuned files and selling/using them as their own;pirating the tune. And the lock is nothing more than a password protected file. Some of the larger, plug and play uploadable tuners leave a finger print, but its typically 1-2 characters different in the name of the files than the factory files. Once more, its easily over written by nothing more than a reflash; you upload a $400 tune file on to your truck. The manufacturer comes out with a software update for, say the on board compass. You take it in, they upload the up date and you drive away wondering what happed to your power. The update they flashed on to your computer isnt just one line of code for just that one thing. Its not that easy. Doing that can and has corrupted ECM/PCMs in the past. So now they completely re-write the whole file, though everything is the same but for that one part that is now updated. And again, in court, your going to be hard pressed to prove that because I put a cold air intake, full exhaust system and reflashed my computer my transmission snapped the input shaft, for example. Is Said Input shaft is rated for XYZ LB/FT of torque, Mr. engineer? So please explain to the court how this engine, with the modifications (invert dealer name or manufacturer here) states it has, produced ABC LB/FT of torque repeatedly on an engine dyno, witch is less than the rated capacity of the inputshaft, caused the input shaft to fail? Is about how most of those cases will and have gone. Dealership/manufacturer flips the bill for all the legal fees, diagnostic and investigations involved, and makes the repair to the vehicle. Most places will try to bully you around. Push back and I bet they bow out and get you squared away. This is why you see more and more manufacturers selling their own aftermarket parts. If that cant void the warranty and make you pay for repairs, they can offer you the parts you want and/or are going to by anyways. And at the end of the day, they want to make money, not lose it.

Re: Ford Raptor [Re: tmd11111] #12497532 11/09/17 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: tmd11111
I'll say this much. I was a sales manager for a Ford dealership for about 7 years. Left it behind about 3 years ago. I know for fact on Fords and I'm almost certain all other manufacturers, if you plug in a tuner it will be recorded in the ecm and even after you remove it leaves a footprint. So when you have a drive train related issue the manufacturer knows. For all that think a dealer can side skirt this and do the customer right WRONG, dealers don't have a say in the matter. All vehicles have to be connected online and the manufacturer makes those decisions based on the data collected, not the dealers diagnosis. I personally witnessed it on a 2013 F250 Platinum. Customers custom pimped out truck was towed in. Airbag suspension, ton's of stereo equipment, wheels, tires and a fist sized whole in the side of the block with only 11k miles on the odometer. Ford denied warranty, customer threatened to sue. Ford provided proof of a tuner being plugged in and with that the customer couldn't find a lawyer within 500 miles that would take the case. Cost his dumb [censored] almost 20k for a new motor.


I know for a FACT Ive SEEN, working at multiple GM dealers, that there this is more so a poor choice of tuner.

Again, sure, if you use a banks bully dog GT tuner, its going to leave its mark, much less the fact that there is an aftermarket display, aftermarket wire harness and aftermarket/external module that is visibly and physically there.

In the case you stated above, there was way more to it than JUST a tuner on that engine to cause that kind of damage to the engine, especially a 6.7; the connecting rod are huge. JUST a tuner engine failure is going to be EGT/combustion heat related and/or cylinder pressure related; melted pistons/rings/turbo, head gasket failure, things like that. This is from advancing injection trimming to far advanced, injecting way to much fuel, increasing boost pressures to much. That kind of failure, if the result of engine modifications, a significant increase in fueling and air flow while allowing the engine to over speed while injection timing is being advanced way to far. IE; propane injection with nitrous on a tune that will let the engine rev past red line, or over fueling it while past redline. Ether way, that customer was an idiot.

I have personally wittiness push back from ford and GM about tuned vehicles and warranty work. Most of the time, the warranty is honored. I also have personally witnessed I cant count how many vehicles go in to the dealership with tunes and other aftermarket upgrades for drivetrain warranty work and no one says a word about the performance goodies. In the end, dont be an idiot with upgrades; run 48 IROKs on a stock transmission and transfer case and try to make 1K HP with out ever upgrading the engine internals and expect the truck to be a daily driver and think the manufacturer is going to honor the warranty.

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