Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Shawnmorrow, c_mack, Rainwater, 0409, Weng
105918 Registered Users
Top Posters
TexDawg 86346
hopalong 78578
Pilothawk 75166
JDavis7873® 67382
John175 ® 65063
FattyMcButterpants 60793
Derek 🐝 58502
Tritonman 57644
LoneStarSon® 53410
SkeeterRonnie 53014
facebook
Forum Stats
105918 Members
60 Forums
854883 Topics
12172279 Posts

Max Online: 36273 @ 01/23/13 02:34 PM
Topic Options
#12422410 - 09/11/17 11:10 AM Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro
Cowboy KJ Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 13
Loc: McKinney, TX
Just checking to see if anyone has put a rudder on a Perception Pescador 12' or 10'. I have a 12' and was thinking of adding one but before I dropped the $250+ wanted to see if anyone had any opinions and if you feel it was worth the cost to add the rudder.

Top
#12422467 - 09/11/17 11:56 AM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
Todd™ Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 3460
Loc: On my kayak
12' and below don't need one as much as the longer kayaks but for me they are worth it. It will help with tracking and lots of help when drifting. If fishing in creeks or small rivers they can help with making tighter turns. I would put one on all my kayaks if I could.
_________________________

http://www.mariner-kayaks.com/

Top
#12422486 - 09/11/17 12:11 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
lconn4 Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 6911
Loc: Cherokee County
Let me say I've always tried to keep things less vs more dodads when it comes to kayaking. I've used rudders before on kayaks just to see what I liked and didn't like about them. Decided against them on any of the 6 I've owned, up to 15 feet in length. Was on a 4 day camping/fishing trip to Cape Sable off the southern tip of the Everglades once and my buddy's rudder cable broke at the end of first day. He ended his participation in trip right then and there and paddling the 12 miles back to marina for repairs the next morning. I thought to myself, what a wuss to be so dependent on a rudder. Been around enough folks with rudders to know they are going to have problems at some point. More stuff behind you to get line hung up in, takes more care to load and unload, limits stacking... no thanks... I'm out. roflmao PS... I might consider one for a girl.
_________________________

A good rule of angling philosphy is not to interfere with another fisherman's ways of being happy, unless you want to be hated.

Zane Grey, Tales of Fishes, 1919


Top
#12422561 - 09/11/17 01:14 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
Brad R Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 1510
Loc: Texas
My Big Rig tracks very well without a rudder; my Propel 10 less so even with its tiny rudder and a drive hanging down in the water.

I know a rudder can be a big help with regard to weathercocking in wind, so there is that. Again, I think my 10 has more of an issue with this than the larger and longer Big Rig.

The general consensus is a rudder will make your kayak slightly more stable, track better . . . but at a cost: loss of some speed. It creates some drag.

Brad

Top
#12422721 - 09/11/17 02:37 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
Todd™ Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 3460
Loc: On my kayak
Is it worth the cost is really up to you. Where and how you fish. I have not demoed your kayak so no information there and each kayak will respond different not to mention the different style rudder blades you can get. Some kayaks will blow like a leaf and some turn like cargo ship. On a shorter kayak it will help with tracking mostly. The zigzag motion your kayak gets from paddling and they can make it more efficient. A skeg (non-turning rudder which acts like an extension of your keel) will do the same thing but make it harder to turn. It is nice to glide and change directions with out a paddle in the water.

Longer than 12' will usually track fine so a rudder is used more for turning. It's Harder to turn if you have 7' of kayak in front of you verses 5' or less. Twelve's or less can turn easy in tight places so not much improvement for you there. Honestly I paddle a lot without one and do fine but once you use them for a while you rather have it.

I guess if I had a rudder to fail I would just keep paddling roflmao. My oldest rudder setup has been on since 2005 and not a single issue. My second oldest since 2012. It's still going strong and it got rear ended. Never even thought that my rudder could fail when I'm on the water hmmm. As for drag I forget if mine is up or down. Couldn't even tell you if it was up or down unless I tried to turn with it or looked at my control. It's a thin blade and unless it's turning there is no drag.
_________________________

http://www.mariner-kayaks.com/

Top
#12422769 - 09/11/17 03:09 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Todd™]
Brad R Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 1510
Loc: Texas
Yes, on the issue of drag, I have never experienced it.

Certainly a pedal drive unit sticking down in the water creates drag. This, for certain, shows up as these kayaks, say Native Propels, don't glide as well as a paddle kayak does after the effort is taken away from pedaling or paddle strokes. I get long glides in my Big Rig while my Propel 10 slows down quicker.

I think it is that a rudder in water with no current, no wind above, a balanced boat load, rudder positioned directly in line with the vessel's direction . . . that there'd be very little drag. But, when a rudder is "working," it has water pushing against one side or the other at anything from a very slight angle to a very acute angle. So, it is the action of a rudder when you need one where it puts a bit of break on speed.

I doubt it is ever much of an issue with our fishing kayaks unless a rudder is turned 90 degrees from the forward direction and someone is paddling on the same side. You'd feel it then, lesser amounts back to 0 degrees.

Todd has it right: it depends on your kayak, largely, then how you use it.

Brad


Edited by Brad R (09/11/17 03:10 PM)

Top
#12423934 - 09/12/17 12:24 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
lconn4 Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 6911
Loc: Cherokee County
Show me someone that can't tell if their rudder is up or down while paddling and I will show you someone that is not in tune with the water, their kayak, or their paddle. roflmao Just KIDDING! not really.
_________________________

A good rule of angling philosphy is not to interfere with another fisherman's ways of being happy, unless you want to be hated.

Zane Grey, Tales of Fishes, 1919


Top
#12423960 - 09/12/17 12:53 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: lconn4]
Cowboy KJ Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 13
Loc: McKinney, TX
Originally Posted By: lconn4
Let me say I've always tried to keep things less vs more dodads when it comes to kayaking. I've used rudders before on kayaks just to see what I liked and didn't like about them. Decided against them on any of the 6 I've owned, up to 15 feet in length. Was on a 4 day camping/fishing trip to Cape Sable off the southern tip of the Everglades once and my buddy's rudder cable broke at the end of first day. He ended his participation in trip right then and there and paddling the 12 miles back to marina for repairs the next morning. I thought to myself, what a wuss to be so dependent on a rudder. Been around enough folks with rudders to know they are going to have problems at some point. More stuff behind you to get line hung up in, takes more care to load and unload, limits stacking... no thanks... I'm out. roflmao PS... I might consider one for a girl.
This is typically the philosophy I adhere to as well. Less is more. If there isn't necessarily a compelling reason for the expense I think I will skip the rudder...for now. My boat seems to track and turn fine--even in wind. I'm sure the rudder would made it track and turn BETTER but isn't worth the expense to me. Appreciate all the feedback. Tight lines.

Top
#12423969 - 09/12/17 01:06 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
Neumie Offline
TFF Team Angler

Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 3108
Loc: Hutto, Hallettsville, Rockport
Yes, rudders create drag; whether you notice it depends on the kayak. All my kayaks have rudders, but the it depends on the hull whether it's noticeable when it's deployed or not. Kayaks designed for stability you're typically not going to notice the drag of the rudder because of the hull inefficiency. Kayaks with efficient hull designs it is definitely noticeable. My Search 15 has an efficient hull losses about 1/4 mph with the rudder down. That doesn't seem like a lot but it's very obvious when I'm paddling. So much so that when I'm in open waters on windy days I don't use the rudder, because I want to be paddling my kayak as efficiently as possible. I'll also point out that learning proper paddling technique and turning/corrective strokes enhance your day on the water.

Like I mentioned earlier, all my kayaks have rudders and I personally believe is a great tool for fishing. I've popped rudder cables in the past on fishing trips, although it doesn't end my trips like it may for others. I also carry a back up set cables with me so after the day I can replace a busted cable.
_________________________
"Water is life's matter and matrix, mother and medium. There is no life without water." -Albert Szent-Gyorgyi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." - Heraclitus

Top
#12424167 - 09/12/17 03:52 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
lconn4 Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 6911
Loc: Cherokee County
I totally agree on the usefulness of rudders on some of the longer and wider kayaks and all pedal drives. Years ago I paddled a Wilderness Tarpon 160, probably the most popular bigger guy paddle/fishing kayaks ever for big water, it needed a rudder. At my weight of 165, I didn't need a kayak with that much carrying capacity even though it was a winner in my eyes.
_________________________

A good rule of angling philosphy is not to interfere with another fisherman's ways of being happy, unless you want to be hated.

Zane Grey, Tales of Fishes, 1919


Top
#12429296 - 09/16/17 09:31 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
Turf_doc1 Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 31
I have a pescador pro 12, so does my son, and girlfriend....We do not feel that a rudder is needed.... tracks really well
Hope this helps my 2 cents anyway.........

Top
#12429735 - 09/17/17 07:45 AM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
Brad R Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 1510
Loc: Texas
The new Native 12XC will have a skeg that is spring loaded and that is a potentially nice "add" for a manufacturer that has, otherwise, been sort of slow (reluctant?) responding to a sub-performing rudder system on its Propels. Nice to see it since it provides an option out on the water.

Good discussion. I think I was reading about the new ATAK 120, and one angler commented on how much better it "fished" after he added a rudder. He said that when you are floating along a bank, not in the act of paddling and even worrying about paddle tracking issues, that it keeps the vessel oriented better. I can't recall, maybe he said or meant it controlled the issue of the of stern spinning around.

I become more and more of a minimalist - - - if not always in practice , at least philosophically - - - the more I kayak fish. *** If I could stand in an Eddyline Caribbean 12, I'd be fishing out of one. 45 lbs.!!!!

Brad

Top
#12430087 - 09/17/17 01:09 PM Re: Rudder on Perception Pescador Pro [Re: Cowboy KJ]
lconn4 Online   content
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 6911
Loc: Cherokee County
This is an older article about rudders that has some good information on the subject.

http://www.sit-on-topkayaking.com/Articles/Instruction/RudderUse.html
_________________________

A good rule of angling philosphy is not to interfere with another fisherman's ways of being happy, unless you want to be hated.

Zane Grey, Tales of Fishes, 1919


Top



© 1998-2017 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide