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#12372220 - 08/04/17 09:25 AM 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman
Sumfish Offline
Angler

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 414
Loc: Weatherford
Found this while looking for some answers to why my 5 hp Coleman with less than 10 hrs will not perform.
Dave's Marine and ethanol fuel.

I have looked for an article that could explain why your marine engine is having trouble performing the way it used to, I can?t find a good simple explanation, so I will be doing my own.

10% ethanol blended in fuel was mandated by Congress in late 2006 since then some states
have used their own judgment as to how much ethanol to allow.

Most modern marine engines ( 5 years and newer ) will operate on that fuel blend as long as it is not above 10%. However, some precautions are necessary; Mercury Marine recommends their fuel stabilizer ,and fuel system cleaner be used with every fill up.

Ethanol in fuel is hygroscopic. Which means it will absorb water directly from the surrounding air. When the ethanol has reached saturation it will phase separate and deposit water in the fuel tank.

Your engine will pick up this water and can cause severe damage to fuel parts as well as internal engine parts.

We have found that carburetors on older engines are especially affected by this fuel.
The result; a gummy resin which form in the fuel bowl, and can cause low and high speed jets to clog,
wnding with the engine either not being able to idle or run wide open throttle.

The only way to clean the carbs is to disassemble them and soak them in a cleaning agent.
Modern fuel injection systems are less susceptible than the older carburetor engines to gumming because the fuel system is closed. Do keep in mind, however, that water ingestion will damage the internal injection parts on old or new engines. A small micron water separator is recommended to forgo these problems.

Modern gasoline blends should never be stored for long periods of time, a maximum time period would be
two to three weeks. If your boat is going to be out of service for that length of time, be sure the tank is 7/8ths full and has the stabilizer added to it.

There are several symptoms of e-10 fuel problems;
* Engines may be hard starting or may not start if small fuel passages are clogged

*Acceleration may not happen, stalling upon acceleration, and or complete dying of the engine may occur.

*The engine may start well and run fine while it is cold, but after a short time of idle or stopping
it may be flat or not run at all.

* A common occurrence is Vapor Lock, fuel pumps will not pump vapor,after sitting hot for a while the engine heat soaks ( get's hotter) this will boil off the fuel in the pump and or carburetor so that the engine will fail to start, or die off after starting.This problem can occur while under way, bubbles will form in the fuel line and cause a rough running
or stalling condition.

What can you do to prevent this?
First of all call your Congressman! Ethanol has never been proved to save anything; neither cost nor pollution.
Be sure to add Mercury Marine fuel stabilizer, and Fuel system cleaner to every tank.Also, keep your tank full
or nearly full when stored. Furthermore you should always disconnect the fuel line on outboards and let them run dry
before pulling out of the water, Also, allow an inboard engine to idle for a time before shutting it off, as well allowing it to idle for a while after starting hot.
These few things will help the issues, but are not a full proof resolution.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to call one of the techs at Dave's Marine ! 740 423 6541
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#12372395 - 08/04/17 11:45 AM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: Sumfish]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: texas
I am not a fan of ethanol, but most of that is exaggerated bs to scare sheeple.

I have 4 boat motors ranging from 3-60 years old that run absolutely flawlessly on e-10 with no additive other than whatever fuel oil they may require. Boats are majorly neglected and stored outside by many users which puts them at high risks of water contamination, add to that they are operated on water and there you go, there is the water contamination problem. Add to it they are for the most part infrequently used and stored for long periods of time.

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#12372480 - 08/04/17 01:03 PM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: redchevy]
TrailHand Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/18/17
Posts: 91
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I am not a fan of ethanol, but most of that is exaggerated bs to scare sheeple.



Uhhhhh....Bull.

All due respect (not sure how old you are) but as a guy that's had to clean those gummy worms out of his carbs on more than one occasion from PO's that ran Ethanol, I can state for a fact that Ethanol will gum up your carbs somethin' awful. Try letting it sit overwinter and with any amount of humidity, even more so for those by the lake, and see for yourself. Just be ready for the cleanup afterward.

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#12372508 - 08/04/17 01:35 PM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: TrailHand]
Muzzlebrake Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 12/26/14
Posts: 1526
Loc: Euless
Originally Posted By: TrailHand
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I am not a fan of ethanol, but most of that is exaggerated bs to scare sheeple.



Uhhhhh....Bull.

All due respect (not sure how old you are) but as a guy that's had to clean those gummy worms out of his carbs on more than one occasion from PO's that ran Ethanol, I can state for a fact that Ethanol will gum up your carbs somethin' awful. Try letting it sit overwinter and with any amount of humidity, even more so for those by the lake, and see for yourself. Just be ready for the cleanup afterward.


X1000

Anybody that believes ethanol can do no harm to IC engines probably believes in the tooth fairy.
_________________________
From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the earth."

Then He made the earth round...and He laughed and laughed and laughed!


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#12372533 - 08/04/17 01:57 PM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: TrailHand]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: texas
Originally Posted By: TrailHand
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I am not a fan of ethanol, but most of that is exaggerated bs to scare sheeple.



Uhhhhh....Bull.

All due respect (not sure how old you are) but as a guy that's had to clean those gummy worms out of his carbs on more than one occasion from PO's that ran Ethanol, I can state for a fact that Ethanol will gum up your carbs somethin' awful. Try letting it sit overwinter and with any amount of humidity, even more so for those by the lake, and see for yourself. Just be ready for the cleanup afterward.


I'm 31 years old and with all due respect aside I don't give a carp what you think. A properly maintained and stored engine will have no problems. Ethanol is actually a good solvent to clean things up. I by no means am claiming it is good for them or better than pure gas, but it is not the cancer that so many make it out to be. If your fuel tank and fuel lines are of any kind of modern manufacture you have little to worry about.

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#12372563 - 08/04/17 02:29 PM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: Sumfish]
tmd11111 Online   content
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/30/17
Posts: 232
Loc: San Angelo
Its funny how keyboard commandos think ethanol is the death of marine engines and lawn equipment. If that was the case there would be automobiles lining the shoulders of every road in America with the same problem.

Yeah maybe if you let your boat sit for 6 months or more it may run like [censored] but 2-3 weeks is complete BS.


Edited by tmd11111 (08/04/17 02:30 PM)

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#12373486 - 08/05/17 08:05 AM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: redchevy]
TrailHand Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/18/17
Posts: 91
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: TrailHand
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I am not a fan of ethanol, but most of that is exaggerated bs to scare sheeple.



Uhhhhh....Bull.

All due respect (not sure how old you are) but as a guy that's had to clean those gummy worms out of his carbs on more than one occasion from PO's that ran Ethanol, I can state for a fact that Ethanol will gum up your carbs somethin' awful. Try letting it sit overwinter and with any amount of humidity, even more so for those by the lake, and see for yourself. Just be ready for the cleanup afterward.


I'm 31 years old and with all due respect aside I don't give a carp what you think. A properly maintained and stored engine will have no problems. Ethanol is actually a good solvent to clean things up. I by no means am claiming it is good for them or better than pure gas, but it is not the cancer that so many make it out to be. If your fuel tank and fuel lines are of any kind of modern manufacture you have little to worry about.



Ok, baby boy. You just ethanol that engine of yours up and let it sit overwinter. Have fun. cheers

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#12373555 - 08/05/17 09:12 AM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: Sumfish]
ssmith Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 2871
Loc: scotland tx
anybody that thinks ethanol is good for anything but farmers has been mislead.

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#12373568 - 08/05/17 09:24 AM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: Sumfish]
Fisherdad58 Offline
Angler

Registered: 10/28/16
Posts: 327
Loc: Ellis County, Texas
I've had no problems with my 2012 ProXS. I hardly ever put more than 10 gallons in at a time with Mercury quikcare and quikleen added every time. It's usually about 3 months between adding any gas. It has never had a full tank because if I did that it would have the same gas in there for a year. I usually keep it between 1/4 and 1/2 full.
Just my .02
_________________________
"Be as straight as you can be and as crooked as you have to be, for what's right"

Psalm 8

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#12374033 - 08/05/17 07:05 PM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: Sumfish]
Muzzlebrake Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 12/26/14
Posts: 1526
Loc: Euless
Modern Fuel injected engines that have an array of sensors, specifically 02 sensors can adjust the stoichiometric mixture of the fuel so the engine runs smooth. Does not work the same way for engines with a carburetor. Fixed jets cannot compensate for too lean of a fuel mixture or a mixture that is too rich.
Anybody that has had a vehicle custom dyno tuned or anyone that does dyno tuning knows what a biatch ethanol fuel can be. Also you never quite know what your are putting in your tank at the gas station.
The more ethanol in the gas the faster it breaks down and phase separates if left sitting for very long.
Most people never see any problems because their vehicle, boat, motorcycle doesn't sit for very long and the fuel is used up very quickly. You are most likely to see problems with gas powered implements that sit for extended periods, lawn mowers, chainsaws, weed eaters etc. and boat motors.
If water in the fuel alarm on your boat motor goes off and nothing else bad happens to the motor consider yourself lucky and go buy a lotto ticket.
_________________________
From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the earth."

Then He made the earth round...and He laughed and laughed and laughed!


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#12377910 - 08/08/17 05:05 PM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: TrailHand]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: texas
Originally Posted By: TrailHand
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: TrailHand
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I am not a fan of ethanol, but most of that is exaggerated bs to scare sheeple.



Uhhhhh....Bull.

All due respect (not sure how old you are) but as a guy that's had to clean those gummy worms out of his carbs on more than one occasion from PO's that ran Ethanol, I can state for a fact that Ethanol will gum up your carbs somethin' awful. Try letting it sit overwinter and with any amount of humidity, even more so for those by the lake, and see for yourself. Just be ready for the cleanup afterward.


I'm 31 years old and with all due respect aside I don't give a carp what you think. A properly maintained and stored engine will have no problems. Ethanol is actually a good solvent to clean things up. I by no means am claiming it is good for them or better than pure gas, but it is not the cancer that so many make it out to be. If your fuel tank and fuel lines are of any kind of modern manufacture you have little to worry about.



Ok, baby boy. You just ethanol that engine of yours up and let it sit overwinter. Have fun. cheers


Already did. Boat has sat the last two years all winter long with fuel in it and stabil no problems what so ever, no hard starts and idles smooth as glass all the way to WOT.

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#12377924 - 08/08/17 05:10 PM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: Sumfish]
redchevy Offline
TFF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6766
Loc: texas
In san Antonio there is no ethanol free fueling stations available. I have been using e-10 for a long time. You can mix E-10 50:1 with good 2 stroke oil, no other additive, in a non vented tank for 2 years and it will run in my chainsaw, weed eater, 1985 70 hp evinrude and a 1958 evinrude without issue.

ethanol is not that big a deal. People need to quit keeping their boat outside in the rain or fix their leaking fuel tanks and stop blaming it on ethanol. I don't like ethanol and I wish it would go away, but it is not the death of outboards either.

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#12378089 - 08/08/17 06:51 PM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: redchevy]
Dubee Offline
Extreme Angler

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1513
Loc: Godley Tx
Originally Posted By: redchevy
In san Antonio there is no ethanol free fueling stations available. I have been using e-10 for a long time. You can mix E-10 50:1 with good 2 stroke oil, no other additive, in a non vented tank for 2 years and it will run in my chainsaw, weed eater, 1985 70 hp evinrude and a 1958 evinrude without issue.

ethanol is not that big a deal. People need to quit keeping their boat outside in the rain or fix their leaking fuel tanks and stop blaming it on ethanol. I don't like ethanol and I wish it would go away, but it is not the death of outboards either.


Yep. I have never used any fuel additive. Never had a single problem.

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#12378571 - 08/09/17 12:10 AM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: Sumfish]
Alumacraft 14 Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 02/24/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Texas
I run a small engine repair shop in San Antonio. Been in the industry for 20 years. I called ethanol fuel the small engine stimulus plan. We repair close to 4000-6000 small engines a year, mainly outdoor equipment. The majority of carb related repairs are due to ethanol jelly build up. In the winter we go to update seminars and all the small engine manufactures talk about the effects of ethanol on carbureted engines. Now the guys here never having any problems may have EFI or DI motors. I can see why these types of motors would have less issues with ethanol. But just because something has never happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't exists. Cars go though fuel way faster, very rarely does gas stay in a fuel tank longer then 30 days. The system is pressurized as well.

Here is a fun experiment. Open your garage for ventilation. Put some gas in a open container with a wide mouth, like a measuring cup. Now let a box fan blow on it for about 2 minutes (less humid days require more time). You will see the gas get cloudy, this is moisture from the air being adsorbed by the fuel. Do the same experiment with ethanol free gas, you will see the difference.

BTW, you can get ethanol free gas in San Antonio. Murphy gas station on Pat Booker road and the one in Borne as well.


Edited by Alumacraft 14 (08/09/17 12:10 AM)

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#12378607 - 08/09/17 05:19 AM Re: 10% Ethanol vs 5 hp Coleman [Re: Sumfish]
Gamblinman Online   content
Extreme Angler

Registered: 11/26/02
Posts: 2764
Loc: Yantis, TX
Ethanol contain alcohol. Alcohol attracts water. Fuel tanks are vented to atmosphere. So....the fuel in your boat's gas tank attracts water just from the humidity in the air. It is imperative to keep fresh fuel if you are using ethanol blended fuels, especially in 2 stroke motors.
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